the company says that Recall will be opt-in by default, so users will need to decide to turn it on
Go easy on them, they’re only a 3 trillion dollar company. It’s hard for them to get the resources to build well thought out and secure software.
Pathetic, so glad I’ve been on Linux for years. I don’t miss Micro$oft one bit.
I’m pissed off I have to use Windows for work.
My job is almost entirely SSH-ing onto 40 different Linux servers, and doing some networking/bash script stuff, and sending emails.
It makes zero sense for my workplace to force me to use Windows, but they do. And my god, the laptop is slow. I keep thinking damn I have a laptop 10yrs older than this running Fedora just fine, and Fedora isn’t even pegged as a lightweight distro.
Right? Before they even officially rolled it out, there are already python scripts on github that can extract your entire recall database. They need to just stop.
Wild for sure. It’s pretty clear that M$ isn’t interested in making their OS anything more than a portal for their cloud products.
The overall percentage of revenue that Windows produces for them directly has been steadily shrinking for years while their Azure and cloud services/licensing has grown dramatically.
I guess it makes sense from that perspective. Call me old fashioned, but I still prefer my OS to be a platform for me to compute locally on and use as I see fit. Not be a bloated ad-ridden portal to a walled garden of proprietary web software.
Windows has gotten so bad in the last year or so, that I’ve actually started telling people, “Try Linux, but if that doesn’t work for you, just go with Apple.”
Both are scummy, evil mega corps that try to lock you into their platform forever. But at least with Apple, the cage is 24K gold with a little cushion, and you’re fed avocado toast & kombucha.
Windows is a rusty, filthy prison cell where the guards randomly come in to rough you up and you’re fed a steady diet of stale bread heels and gruel.
they needed researchers to tell them that?
Internally people probably talked about how there were huge issues. Others probably said those issues are over stated and it’s no big deal. They decided to release it and the press says there are issues. Then, the company decides there are issues. That simple.
Having been the guy in an org shouting not to do something only for it to come back to us this way, the finger-pointing that begins is nuts. Often the people who tried to stop the “feature” from rolling out are the first to get blamed for it being shit.
Classic CYA, make sure everything you said is in writing somewhere.
I have as well. I won’t pretend I’m always right - I’ve thought some ideas that worked out incredibly were horrible. Also had the situation you describe happen. It’s okay when you’re working with reasonable people. Show them the slide deck, the email, the analysis, whatever… “Look you didn’t approve this”. "Here is an alternative ". That can work.
Just telling folks “I told you so” isn’t usually a great form of communication.
It’s PR bullshit to give an excuse for backtracking basically
That’s just what we call people spending some time to figure something out. Security research is basically just trying to learn the technology and then trying to break it.
it did not take me long to figure out that maybe spyware that takes screenshots of what you’re doing is a bad idea
Well . . . the smart people they ignored when CoPilot was first proposed.
I can never again log into my email or other private account on someone else’s computer.
I mean, it could always have been compromised and had some kind of keylogger or something installed.
Yes, but now it definitely does
Not definitely, recall will be opt-in and only available on arm computers with a very specific ARM CPU
But with Windows 11, you are sure it’s compromised.
To be fair the possibility of compromise was enough not to do it. Being sure of compromise doesn’t change that math all that much.
That’s the Microsoft™️ Guarantee!
Why would anyone opt in to this? What is the point of it?
So that you can find that one porn video you watched six months ago that really got you off but you don’t remember how you found it.
I feel for the hundreds of engineers at Microsoft who have been yelling about these security issues since day one, but cannot say “I told you so” because they’d get fired.
I survived a similar incident, telling our CEO at the time “you know our product can’t do that, right?” I had to show my receipts, present usability studies, and faced incredible pressure, but 2 CEOs later, I’m still here… :)
Document everything. Keep good notes. You never know when it will be useful.
Sure but at Microsoft they fire people based on dice rolls
Or no dice rolls! “Bad luck, you! Bye!”
Cave Johnson intensifies
This is exactly what I was thinking. There are plenty of smart people that work there that would have said something before release. They were told to not rock the boat by the yes men and now Microsoft has to backpedal and pretend no one there thought about THOSE implications.
still dont understand why you would ever want to save screenshots of your desktop and also waste disk space
To get the idea of always being watched into your head !
Literally 1984. No, like, literally literally.
The AI scans all those screenshots visually and tags them for search later so, for example, an artist could open a file they don’t remember the location of from thousands of folders by typing text describing it. That’s actually awesome. I imagine lots of people could come up with really useful ways to use something like that. I mean, if it wasn’t an Orwellian nightmare.
Features like this can almost never be privacy-friendly because they’re developed expressly to violate your privacy. The value it provides you , as cool as that could be, is just how it’s sold.
Yeah, it sounds like it might actually be a useful feature if it wasn’t impossible to do it securely and in a privacy respecting way.
I don’t know about impossible. I could see this working on a Linux distro with a local model doing all the work and storing it encrypted locally. Buuuuuut, it still feels risky! That’s a giant traunch of juicy, searchable data that just begs to be stolen.
To be fair to Microsoft, this was a local model too and encrypted (through Bitlocker). I just feel like the only way you could possibly even try to secure it would be to lock the user out of the data with some kind of separate storage and processing because anything the user can do can be done by malware run by the user. Even then, DRM and how it gets cracked has shown us that nothing like that is truly secure against motivated attackers. Since restricting a user’s access like that won’t happen and might not even be sufficient, it’s just way too risky.
I can definitely see the utility in the feature, it’s just that it, conceptually, is such a security risk that it’s simply not worth it, even ignoring the data harvesting/storage penalty.
You enter a discussion and you need to refer to an article you know you’ve read but can’t find? Now you can find it. You want a backpack and remember seeing one you liked but can’t remember where you saw it? Ask it to show backpacks you looked at - great now you’ve tracked it down in seconds rather than spending half an hour.
But yeah, the security and privacy implications of this are so bad that it’s really not worth the tradeoff.
Best Solution is to not use Microsoft, i just setup an old Laptop with Linux Mint to see if it can work for my requirements.
If all goes well ill just use that for my main pc.
Oh boy, sunk cost fallacy time! They’ll now waste millions of dollars to salvage this popularly unwanted nightmare in an effort to make it juuust acceptable to shove it down everyone’s throats.
Either that or they’ll spend all that money and then pinky-promise that they’ve made it acceptable, only for all their work to be immediately overcome by bad actors (criminals, corporations, governments, law enforcement, is there even a difference) and be the exact same nightmare anyway.
Bullshit.
This whole endeavour is looking like a careful plan to implement a smaller, slightly less horrible idea in Win11, and then creep forward from there.
Remember the model to move the goal line, folks:
- Overreach
- Capitulate publicly and fall back to your true target
- Repeat
Best of all, these large steps can be supplemented by nudging things forward with ‘adjusttments.’
They’ll probably come to the “logical conclusion” that storing the data locally on the machine poses “too much risk” and just move the storage to their servers “for your safety”…
Oh, yeah, thanks for these researchers to have provided insightful feedback such as “don’t record private activity”, “don’t store data in a plaintext user-accessible sqlite database”, and “don’t do that automatically to everyone elligible, what are you thinking no stop”. No way anyone could ever figure these out beforehand. Microsoft was totally stumped when these showed up and most certainly is very honest when they say they’re reworking it now, and not at all abusing the PR outrage to slip us something as bad in the meantime.
I’ll contain my skepticism until I see what these opt-in messages look like. Some of the Bing Chat and CoPilot and connecting to a MS account was designed to make people think it was required, and came up repeatedly after being dismissed. “Dark Patterns” to use a term du jour.
I’m pretty sure the main picture on the article is what the revised opt in/out message looks like. Previously it was opt in with just a message describing the feature with a check box to have it open Settings when you were finished with the out of box experience so that you can look at the options later.
That’s how this works, isn’t it? Nobody reads past the headline. Everybody feels about it super strongly, just not strongly enough to actually read about it.
This might not be Reddit, but the Reddit behavior is still here.
It’s not Reddit behavior. It’s just the limited capacity we have for dealing with the flood of information we’re exposed to. Between that and the daily stresses of work, family and whatever else a given person has going on, there’s no time to filter out what is or isn’t important, there’s no time for nuance or thought, there’s only time enough for a knee-jerk reaction before the next aggravating thing comes along.
I mean, there’s a difference between not reading an article, and several people arguing back and forth over the article that none of them have read. Reddit and Lemmy people do a lot of the latter.
Might just be internet/human behavior really.
It was opt out before, not opt in, and you made the changes subsequent to install.
Whoops, I mixed them up. It was definitely opt-out before.
“the company says”? and you believe them? why?
Opt in just like Microsoft accounts…right
Something something cake day.
Too fucking late. I’ve already installed Bluefin on two machines and Bazzite on my gaming machine. I’m not going back.
Already installed Bazzite on my Legion go with my laptop and desktop next. No reason for me not to continue putting it on my devices just because they are going to rework it. Recall is always going to be a major security risk despite a few extra measures. They have definitely shown they can’t think about these things. At least there was a heads up on this one for people to point out obvious issues, but that won’t always be the case.
With that in mind we are announcing updates that will go into effect before Recall (preview) ships to customers on June 18.
I doubt they can do much with last-minute changes. It being opt-in is better, at least.
our review units of the new Surface hardware are being delayed by a week or so, presumably so Microsoft can update them.
GROAAAAAAAN. I just want to see proper benchmarks of Qualcomm’s new chips and they keep delaying it despite the laptops releasing later this month.
Yeah, right? The biggest bummer of this entire stupid thing that should never have existed is that it’s overshadowing perhaps the most exciting hardware launch on Windowsland since the original Surface. I am VERY interested in seeing if Windows on ARM is viable this time, and as a longtime Windows 2-in-1 user I am incredibly excited about the prospect of a similarly performant version that doesn’t need to be plugged in basically at all times.
But because MS can’t come up with a feature without shooting itself in the foot with a bazooka we’re all here talking about the stopgap they had to implement to save face while they wait to be able to quietly kill this dumb thing for good. I swear, they are incredibly bad at this.
The average person doesn’t even know that new hardware is coming because the only thing MS is advertising is “AI AI AI AI AI AI AI”. Is that seriously more appealing than saying “hey our new laptops have better performance and 2x more battery life than older laptops”? Because I’m feeling the latter is what they should’ve leaned on.
I’m torn about the marketing, because a) MS clearly wants to own “AI”, and they do have the cheapest, best version of multimodal chat at the moment, and b) I do think to normies it’s more marketable than “we did the Macbook Air, finally”.
On the other hand, I 100% agree with you that I give zero craps about their stupid certification for 40 TOPS on laptops. I already own things with GPUs in them and I use very little in the way of LLMs or image generators, and certainly not offline, so the battery life and the matching improvements in weight are THE feature for me.
I mean, it doesn’t really matter either way, the market is what it is, and I get to use the devices the same way regardless of how they’re marketed, so sell whatever you have to sell. It’s still fascinating and kinda sad to witness the self-sabotage, though.
