No fucking thank you, I have long since completely neutered my pc’s ability to update. I updated enough to install drivers and get it stable, and that’s it. I don’t trust windows.
So much effort to just keep using the same shitty piece of software.
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If it really was less effort to move to Linux, a majority of people would have already.
Oh yeah, because the customer is always perfectly knowledgeable and rational. People absolutely never spend more money to get an inferior product.
Have you tried Linux recently (or at all)? Most distros hold your hand. If anything, most of them hold your hand more than Windows. The installation is very easy, and it doesn’t bug you with a Microsoft account, MS Office, or One Cloud. It’s not trying to sell you a bunch of shit you don’t need because it’s not profiting off of you. You just select what drive you want to install it on (assuming you have an empty one) and let it do it’s thing, and you’re done.
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So if you don’t have a clue, do you buy the expensive yet inferior product for ease of use, or spend hours learning stuff you don’t want to, to get the free, and better product?
If you are willing to learn how to hack Windows to work the way you want it to, the better solution is to switch to Linux. The person I replied to is knowledgeable enough to disable his computer’s ability to update. They are not an average user. Any user who can manage what they did will have a trivial time switching to Linux.
No, no Linux distro holds your hand like a OS that comes preinstalled on your PC.
No shit. It holds your hand more than what this user did, and it holds your hand more than installing Windows, which you’ll need to do for 11 to switch. It being pre-installed is exactly the same as someone installing it for their parents, or whatever you said in your other comment with a negative connotation.
I don’t know why people always need to boil things down to what the absolute dumbest least technical user who doesn’t have help can do when they weren’t what’s being discussed. This was a user on Lemmy who has modified Windows to not update. They are spending more effort to stay on Windows than it’d take to switch to Linux, like I implied with my first comment.
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So why is it manual cars are disappearing if it is the better way to drive? Well a few reaons: While easy to drive, it is hard to learn, and there is alot to learn, don’t ride the clutch, how to start moving on a hill, how to start smooth, you have to constantly be changing gears in traffic, more prone to bad shifts, the car requires more attention, ect, ect.
Then why does most of the world use manuals? Automatics are mainly a thing in the land of bald eagles and school shootings. Across the rest of the world the manual is still more popular. The fact that so many people can only drive automatic tells me that maybe some of those people shouldn’t be on the road, and that maybe Americans are too dumb to drive real cars.
We live in a reality where Linux is more popular, just not on the desktop. Most smartphones run Linux, and do most smart appliances, servers, and embedded devices. So no Linux isn’t harder to use, desktop distributions not run by giant corporations are harder to use for some ineffable reason. Really Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSUSE, Debian and so on all need to take a page out of Linux Mint, Chrome OS, and so on and become more user friendly.
I feel like all of your arguments are just from your experience only.
Personal experience and those that I’ve heard and seen, sure. As are all of our opinions. I saw the other day someone using Debian (I think, maybe it was another distro) while avoiding the terminal. You can’t even do that with Windows.
96% of people haven’t, because they don’t want to.
That is not an accurate statement. The vast majority haven’t even considered that there’s another option, besides Mac maybe if they’re aware of that. It’s like saying 99% of people aren’t billionaires because they don’t want to be. They didn’t make a choice.
For your car analogy, I agree with it. It’s pretty accurate. The issue is this person was doing fairly serious maintenance of his automatic car. He wasn’t just driving it around because it’s easier. They spent time gaining knowledge and experience because they’re automatic was breaking down in a way the manual wouldn’t have had issue with. They wouldn’t have much trouble making the switch.
I am the user above, and the writing is on the wall - I am aware that I will need to switch to Linux when I can no longer make w10 work for me, or when it is no longer supported by the games and programs I use.
The reasons why I don’t switch now are more complicated. I use a Lenovo Legion Slim 5 as my daily driver, as I was in an accident and can no longer sit at my desk with the pc I built. This laptop is on a rolling desk over my bed.
Anyway, while some Lenovo laptops support Linux, this one does not, and my reading tells me that I may have difficulty with certain things. I may have trouble with drivers for the graphics card, I may have trouble with adjusting the monitor brightness or the second monitor, I may have trouble with sound. or even the keyboard.
There are github pages devoted to helping with utilities to fix many of these problems, but they definitely require troubleshooting, thinking, and planning.
I have also had a friend who recently switched to Linux, who tried to stream a game for me. Before he switched his streams were flawless, this time we spent a while figuring out how to get his game audio, then the stream quality was abysmal, freezing, and in the wrong resolution, so he played while I googled solutions he could try on the fly.
Streaming games through discord on Linux is apparently a whole thing. That more than anything keeps me on win10, because I cannot play most of the games I used to play, they require too much movement, so my husband or friends will stream for me.
I am hoping things become easier as more users join Linux before me.
This is all a long winded explanation that I am sure you didn’t ask for, but I just wanted to let you know that sometimes even people with a somewhat good grasp of tech have reasons keeping them from switching.
I’m sorry to hear about your situation. It sucks the some systems aren’t supported. It’s very rare, but I guess you may be in that small group. I’d bet some people could help you make it work, but it may require extra effort. The great thing about Linux is you can make almost anything work if you put in the effort, but if the tools aren’t already made that’d mean doing it yourself, which probably isn’t an option.
I’m not trying to say Linux is right for you, but Windows does not care about you either. They are leaving everyone behind if they don’t follow along. I wish you good luck and good health!
It is malware, not software.
Windows is not a serious OS anymore.
Microsoft made a big mistake with Windows 10: it basically works fine.
That’s what they’ll try to end now with buggy feature bloat shoehorned in.
That’s when an operating system is supposed to do. They make mistakes when they make it worse. Usually, the operating system starts worse and eventually gets tolerable. That happened with Windows 10. Initial versions were far inferior to Windows 7, but now it’s at a pretty good state. Windows 11 is a pile of fucking garbage. There is no compelling feature in Windows 11 that would make anyone want to upgrade. There are compelling reasons not to upgrade, such as advertising, menus that require more clicks to get the same shit done, forced use of Microsoft account, etc.
There’s also the fact that Windows 11 refuses to run unless you have a handful of specific hardware in your computer, such as TPM 2.0, and a relatively modern processor. There is no technical reason for this requirement, it was discovered very early on that if you override the check it will install and run just fine. But Microsoft seems determined to get people to throw away their older but still perfectly good computers.
That is a very big part of why Windows 10 is still so popular. If you have a computer from six or seven years ago that you’ve upgraded once or twice, it’s probably still perfectly good. No reason to throw it away for Windows 11 when you can keep on trucking with Windows 10.
I was at a win 95 launch event for pc sellers back in the msdos era. Microsoft sales pitch was “put windows on the comps you sell and we guarantee your customers will keep coming back for upgrades”. Shit hasn’t changed 30 years later.
I personally am quite grateful that my computer doesn’t meet the requirements, because that means I won’t be stealth-upgraded like happened with 10.
My wife’s laptop was upgraded during a “maintenance window” one night. Now to downgrade I would have to wipe it clean and reinstall everything and restore backups… Too much hassle and then maybe it will be upgraded again. Bios doesn’t allow disabling tpm
Same was said about Windows 7 as people protested the switch to Windows 10. New telemetry, aggressively forced updates, and other factors made Windows 10 a nightmare for many. Yet now, when Windows 11 is even worse, people start thinking of Windows 10 the way they thought of Windows 7.
Essentially, Microsoft can make Windows worse and worse for as long as the previous iteration is better and people got used to it.
That is exactly how I felt back then. Waited as long as possible to switch to 10 from 7 but then got used to it. Honestly I still think 7 was better. But no fucking way I’m switching to 11 with the way things are going at Microsoft.
Usually Microsoft would have 1 good release then 1 release that is shit. Seems like it’ll be straight shit from now on.
Nobody wants new features. If they wanted new features they would have gone to W11 already. They just want less bullshit.
It’s almost like they’re trying to make people switch to Linux and kill PC gaming altogether. Luckily gaming on Linux has come pretty far.
I really wish the anticheat co.panies would get their stuff working on Linux. I know anticheats aren’t 100% effective but they are necessary, if you think it’s bad with them imagine without.
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https://areweanticheatyet.com/?search=&sortOrder=desc&sortBy=status
At least 132 games that theoretically should work, but because of bad/broken implementation don’t, and 28 games where the linux community has been told explicitly to f- off.
I was a late switcher as I had to wait for gaming support. Once I saw what the steam deck was doing and how amazing proton is, I pulled the trigger. It gets better all the time too, sounds like Nvidia users are finally gonna be getting proper Wayland in like less than a month too! It’s been so smooth I was able to convince my wife to use it too. She LOVES Minecraft and after I showed her Prism Launcher she was sold.
I love it, please keep destroying windows and let the holdouts suffer. Linux is the way
I’d love to go to Linux, but I use so many apps that are only available for Windows.
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Lots of proprietary apps for work. No-go for me.
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So they’re ending support but will use the remaining users like test guinea pigs.
Great…
So no change whatsoever then? Ever since it released windows 10 patch testing has been “release to end user and see what the complaints are.”
This is called the “RedHat CentOS” strategy
Probably a sad attempt at adding “shiny” features to get people to upgrade to 11 once updates are no longer published for 10?
“We’ll get people hooked on these shiny features, 90% of which are not interesting. Then we’ll pull the update rug from under them. And bingo, they’ll upgrade!!”
Probably more like, “we’ll make Windows 10 indistinguishable from Windows 11, at which point people will have no reason to stick with Windows 10” (unless their computers can’t update to Windows 11, like my laptop)
Or maybe I’m just showing that I know nothing about how updates work and that I perhaps shouldn’t be commenting in a technology community…
They’re going to add things that make it worse and slower until you finally get fed up with it.
Technically win 11 has the same main version number to win 10. They’re essentially different UIs with extra features in 11. There’s no technical reason why anything in 11 can’t be backported to 10 unless it requires a TPM (maybe)
Even 11 doesn’t require a TPM if you know what you’re doing.
Your last paragraph probably applies to me too.
Is one of those “features” CoPilot? Because I did a search for it on my Windows 10 installation, and found several small bits of it, including a directory called “Microsoft CoPilot.” It looks like a placeholder for a full installation, later on. I’m guessing Office 365 put it there.
Another great ploy by Microsoft to increase Linux adoption.
I just dual booted Linux Mint yesterday when I was reminded of the Win 10 end of service date, and hope to keep with it as my main system.
Linux has come a long way with compatibility since I last tried it ~10 years ago. The fact that Steam games ran perfectly without an evening of configuring settings blew my mind.
On Nobara you can just double click .exe files and they open perfectly with winetricks. Absolutely bonkers.
This is with an nvidia card too, 0 issues 0 config needed
That’s really awesome.
Does an old version of Ms office like 2010, 2013 or 2016 work with this?
according to a quick search yes! not able to torrent it rn to verify however.
Do Ubisoft and Blizzard games run? I keep reading praises about Steam but I am more concerned with the other launchers
Blizzard games have always had good linux compatibility. Might change now that they’ve bought by microsoft though.
As for ubisoft games they probably run too, launchers are a pita but they do run, you’ll need something like lutris, bottles or heroic launcher to get you started running shit outside of steam, they’re not necessary but they make things simpler.They usually do if they don’t use kernel level anti cheat. But it’s a bit more complicated than Steam. There are guides online. It’s manageable but it’s not “click play and you’re done” like steam
Afaik Steam has a compatibility layer (Proton) which makes the games run on linux, because the SteamOS which is running on the Steam Deck is Linux. There is Wine you could use for games outside Steam, or you could also try running them throuhg Steam.
Now I have no experience with any of this, but plan to set up Linux dual boot at some point and this is my understanding of things. Somebody better suited will probably chime in with mire details
There’s the new UMU launcher that allows running proton outside of steam. Winehq also works fine by itself, at the end of the day proton is just a fork of wine with a few patches and relies on plenty of shared components like dxvk and vkd3d.
Honestly my ability to game has what has kept me out of linux. I trialed PopOs a while ago. I will more than likely switch to it when shit starts getting super annoying.
It’s already super annoying, and this is what people always say. What’s it going to take in your case?
As of right now? It’ll probably be the drop in support next year. While I have my complaints about Microsoft or any major corporation, for that matter, I’m not the most tech savvy. If Microsoft were to come out and say support is extended, I’ll stick with W10. If they come out with an OS that allowed me to pick and choose what software I wanted and didn’t load it with a shit ton of bloat ware I’d be all over that like shit on velcro. I know these are pipe dreams, and I will most likely move. For now, I will stay the current course until it’s time to jump into the Linux pool and learn how to swim.
Gaming on Linux works like a charm now
It’s the multi-player side that is still an issue though. The anticheat software is a pain.
Some multiplayer, but not all. Not that that makes it perfect, but I’ve had minimal issues with multiplayer games. I do not play popular FPS games where anti cheat software is prevalent, so that’s mostly why. I did get Ghost of Tsushima the other day, and that is not compatible for online play, but I think that’s because of Sony.
Personally I’ve had zero issues with multiplayer. But yeah, I’m also not playing the latest twitch shooters and whatever.
This is good news to me since I don’t play twitch shooters.
I’d love to run just Linux, but I don’t want to hassle with dual boot for the couple of competitive shooters I do play.
It sucks because all the other games I play would run without a problem.
I set up a second SSD with Bazzite for dual booting, but it’s not practical for me to use as a daily driver yet. I have a Nvidia GPU, and the drivers just aren’t up to par with their Windows counterparts yet. I could tolerate not having HDR, but also not being able to use 2 monitors with different refresh rates at the same time is killing me.
There’s an update in the works that should fix at least the multi-monitor problem, but still no HDR.
Did you use bazzite with gnome or kde? If I recall correctly, kde plasma 6.1 has support for multi monitor with different refresh
I’m on KDE. It’s quite an odd problem. If I keep them both set to refresh rates below their max, things work fine. However, if both monitors are set to their native refresh rates, the higher refresh rate one goes blank and the lower one starts flickering. If I disable the lower refresh rate monitor, I can set the higher one to it’s max without issue though.
Essentially, when I’m booting into Bazzite, I need to either disable my second monitor or halve my refresh rate or it’s unusable.
I’m on Arch KDE and have and Nvidia 2080ti. I can’t run Wayland. Otherwise I run 3 monitors, 1 an ultra wide at 120hz. I haven’t had any issues.
Interesting. If you have some time, might be worth trying to live USB boot drive of something like fedora desktop kde spin or pop_os cosmic DE just to see if the issue persists for other distros.
I’m theory this should be working now, it’s too bad it isn’t. My desktop is a 4 monitor setup that I’m hoping to move to a fedora based distro as well.
Pop_OS was the first distro I tried before coming to Bazzite. Cosmic sorta worked, but was overall worse… No flickering there, but eventually, a few minutes after logging in, the desktop would freeze. Completely unusable unfortunately. I think Bazzite is fedora based iirc? I don’t know, this is my first attempt at anything beyond putting Ubuntu on old laptops.
Ya bazzite is based on fedora with an immutable file system, so it’s called fedora atomic. Fedora atomic then has variants like bazzite, universal blue etc.
I’m curious if the baseline fedora desktop would have the same issues.
https://fedoraproject.org/spins/kde/download
Multi refresh rate on monitors is a relatively new thing for Linux so bugs are still being ironed out. It sucks that things like these are still not at parity with windows but it’s improving.
Do you know if Nvidia Surround works? I’ve been gaming with a tripple monitor setup and would really like to keep it.
That I don’t know, I only have two monitors and they’re totally different sizes so I haven’t looked into it, sorry!
I just wiped Windows from my drive yesterday and committed to Fedora after dualbooting for 15 years…I’ve been maining Fedora for a while and always kept Windows around “just in case”, but never actually seemed to need it. This recall/AI spyware was it for me though. Gaming has been a breeze for a while on Fedora/Linux due to Steam/Proton…such a great feeling to finally be completely rid of Windows!
Please don’t. Just keep providing security updates for an extended time and don’t make Win 10 worse with these ‘features’ that are keeping people away from Win 11.
But muh platform growth!?!?! It just needs more AI, that’ll get the people upgrading
Nobody wants more AI.
I’m already hallucinating
From what I’ve seen, pretty much everyone from techies to the tech illiterate HATES AI Implementations. Yet corporations keep trying to shovel it down our throats. When are they going to admit no one wants this?
They are shoveling it down our throats because the corporations want it. The more they can get it to do without having to pay us poors, the more money they can keep in their pockets. AI has to mine data to learn, so they are trying to put it everywhere to learn. On your OS like copilot doesn’t just learn what you type in on a specific site, it learns EVERYTHING you type, everywhere. Then later, Microsoft doesn’t need to pay people writing code for them, doesn’t need to pay customer service reps. Then they can sell either copilot or its learned data to other companies. WE ARE NOT THE CUSTOMERS, WE ARE THE PRODUCT.
ANYHOOO, I have no idea how AI works, I am talking out my ass, but this is my tinfoil hat rant.
I mean u missed a couple steps but u got the gist of it.
That’s not how AI learns.
Yep the few people that say “with ai my job has improved” are the people that were shit at their job. Like a dude was so happy on linkedin about how great it is to have chatgpt do the analysis of some csv, it would have been soooo difficult with a spreadsheet…
I have copilot because my company is ms partner and we have all the GitHub stuff and whatnot. It’s only useful when creating mock tests and it creates values for variables. Stuff that before I was doing semi manually using a library to create the values during the test. Otherwise the suggestions are plain wrong or so convoluted (and I wouldn’t know if they are right because I don’t understand what’s happening) that I would never allow it in the codebase, it probably took some l337code/codegolf challenge as an example…
I think when you say “Hates AI” you mean “Hates ChatGPT”
“AI” itself has a lot of awesome uses, ML models with DLSS, robots that can maneuver over different terrain, image generation, audio transcription, etc.
Even with LLMs, I’m fine with them as long as I was the one that was able to pick and choose the model as well as the software to use to run it.
I think it’s obvious. They paid a whole lot of money, it turned out not as life changing as they thought and definitely not as good so they are trying to make us hooked to get back on the money
That’s the point, make wi does 10 worse so people will update
But W10 likely won’t ever get the “feature” of OCRing your entire workspace and serializing the results to plaintext.
Who knows, maybe it will
Nah. That would require them to retroactively change the hardware requirements for the OS, which they’re simply not going to do.
Just switch to Linux, problem solved.
Sure, will you call the it admin where I work and tell him I’m switching?
I want to switch to Linux just as much as you, but at work I have literally zero influence over this. Private OS choice and enterprise / corporate are very different things, and businesses refusing to switch away from Windows is a very big reason why Microsoft’s behaviour lately is a big deal.
OK, so what are you running at home?
I… don’t have a computer at home?
Jesus, have we gone full circle already? There are people with no real computer at home again?
I haven’t had a computer in over a decade. I’m not a luddite, I just haven’t had a need for one since I got a smart phone.
That’s pretty much exactly what I meant with my comment. Not having proper computers at home because they’re replaced by smartphones.
I work with computers and clouds all day. I don’t really want to spend more time on it.
I respect that and I wish I could say the same. Sadly most of my hobbies and interests are computer based so I pretty much have to.
Smart phones and their consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
Some problems:
- Stability. For me, Linux on a VM (where I’m using it for development and getting myself familiarized with it) was a stability nightmare. Everything could go wrong after an update (I’m looking at you, Ubuntu 24.04), or even a restart, with no easy way to recover.
- Lack of an easy recovery. On Windows, you can recover your OS from a faultry update easily. If a bit more things have gone wrong, just use the installer, to resurrect your own installation. On Linux, you’re on your own, and while sometimes it’s an easy fix, other times you’re better off reinstalling your OS, leading you to have to restart a lot of other things, which leads to lost time that could have spent better with doing something productive. I’ve wasted hours on recovering data from a Ubuntu 24.04 installation which decided to no longer work in GUI mode, and it ultimately ruined my sleep schedule.
- A lot of settings are hidden deep within config files, which need manual editing, and even worse, googling, which on today’s internet, will likely lead you to an AI generated site filled with garbage. I managed to kill the Linux installation on my Raspberry Pi, which lead me to the previous point of having to reinstall, then having to google even more settings because Raspberry Pi OS had the great idea in the newer versions to “make setup easier”, thus tieing your location settings and your keyboard layout, so I had a Hungarian layout that I had to change, as it’s horrible to use for software development (a lot of commonly used characters are on the Alt Gr layer, and there’s only one Alt Gr key, the other Alt is a dedicated menu key - thanks IBM!).
- Production software and drivers. While Wine is fine for a lot of games, but try to use software with way more sophisticated copy protection schemes. They’re already a pain to use on Windows with the original keys and such, now imagine them on a Windows emulator. Good luck with trying to find VST plugins, which copy protection can be 100% removed!
I’m not a good UX designer, but my first two rules for anything GUI related are:
- If it can be done by a single button press, it should be a single button press on the GUI.
- If it can be an easy configuration, it should be an easy configuration on the GUI.
Linux, alongside with many other projects in the FOSS community, regularly fail both of these, in favor of scripts, which are fine, but have their own issues. Your average user’s average usecase does not involve “very repetitive tasks that are just perfect for some shell scripts”.
Ubuntu is bad, that’s why you are having stability issues. Stop using it.
Also it’s dead easy to recover a Linux installation that has snapshots. Just boot the previous snapshot and go. Also could just use an immutable Linux if not breaking things is your main concern.
Oh yeah, let’s get rid of a checks notes a common and basic feature of an OS, because it’s trendy with some programming languages to set everything to const, because people are not being taught what a debugger is and how to solve these issues with them…
Android and ChromeOS are also immutable, this isn’t just a trend. Stop being insufferable. You don’t have to go to using immutable OSes, using something sensible and stable with snapshotting would work just fine. Like OpenSUSE, or Fedora. Setting snapshots up on Debian I think is more work but still doable.
I think you also want to call me a tourist, mallcore, fashiongoth, fake metal Linux user, for not wanting to join the Arch cult…😉
I’m not here to argue that Linux is flawless if you just do this one obvious trick, but rather to say, for you in particular, with the issues you described: You might enjoy openSUSE more.
It comes with filesystem snapshots out-of-the-box. As in zero setup. And you can rollback to a previous snapshot from the bootloader, even if your system does not boot anymore.
So, assuming neither your filesystem nor hardware broke (and you noticed the breakage right away), it takes 5 minutes to get back to a working state.It also comes with an extensive system settings GUI, called “YaST”. It certainly does not completely absolve you from touching config files. It also will not make you weap from how intuitive of a GUI it is. But it is a GUI and it covers lots of the common stuff that one might tweak on a computer.
I do also find openSUSE to be less error-prone than Ubuntu in general (my workplace makes me use the latter).
Main downside of openSUSE: It is more niche. The community is smaller. When you do run into an error, there’s fewer articles out there to help you. In particular, setting up specialty software like DAWs, VSTs etc., you may find less help for.
But the small community is more tight-knit and consists of lots of folks with higher expertise, so if you ask in the forum or some other place where the community hangs out, you will usually still get rather excellent help (and perhaps better help than what search engines unearth these days).
Shit, I’d still be using xp if they let me.
Having used XP recently, I…would not.
Go 98!
Everyone always forgets ME. :(
What about BOB?
As they should
Still a fan of Win 7.
Windows 2000 was peak Windows.
This is the correct answer. Win 2k Pro.
Can I opt out?
it’s Microsoft so probably not unless corporate account. You know the other solution.
win 11 adoption must be pretty bad if they have to do their new features beta testing on win 10 (which should be on a security updates/show-stopper bugfix only policy by now) instead.
Windows 11 adoption to business customers is really bad. Most of the adoption to 11 has been from people purchasing new home computers and being stuck with 11 (I have two win 11 computers now).
Since the bulk of Microsoft’s revenue comes from business customers, they have a huge impact on decisions.
At this point the only decision Microsoft can make is to write off win 11 as a failue. Resuming feature upgrades to win 10 makes business sense.
My company basically said they’re only going to update if they absolutely have to. IT and management are aligned for the first time in my entire career. There’s been talks of switching entirely to Linux and Mac. Microsoft really fucked up.
