They’ve demonstrated Americans can lose militarily and still not have healthcare, which is both sad and a little funny.
Vietnam beat them by by about 50 years.
New phone huthis?
FYI: Those leftists are right wing trolls under a false flag, exactly like those “Biden takes 100% blame for Israel’s every action” guys. They come from /pol and Telegram.
100% this.
CMV level 1: Houthis didn’t exist for anyone in eurosphere until they bombed ships.
CMV level 2: The regime they fought was shitty, but so is their current administration.
CMV level 3: They had zero reason to bomb ships because they don’t have any interest in this, but they were told to do so by investors and suppliers like Iran in exchange for something for their corrupt elites.
CMV level 1: Houthis didn’t exist for anyone in eurosphere until they bombed ships.
As someone who follows foreign policy, I object! Some of us were here observing a conflict that had no traction in broader culture and we had no influence over!
That’s surprising. Looking at that conflict or any other, like in Myanmar (pre their r/combat_footage popularity), makes me feel like I’m the only english-speaking person who even know it’s going on.
I can be moderately entertaining, so I make sure my friends are informed as well. But yeah, it’s a pretty small percentage of us who give a damn about foreign affairs. The number of people I’ve met who don’t even know the difference between Iran and Iraq is… astounding.
It’s a given. And the fact of it itself is somehow sobering. In a way you stop giving a fuck that much about what ill-informed actors tell. Many of them didn’t even read wikipedia, but spread their influencer’s pov to others.
To be fair, when the media refuses to cover something how does a normal person even know what to search for?
Iran and Iraq are constantly in the news, though. At least the Houthis were somewhat obscure until recently.
Too many people claiming to be on the left are just “America bad, therefore anyone who hates America is good” full-stop.
You can like a riff from their #1 hit without liking their whole discography, or even the rest of the song.
Ah, the “But you have to give it to the Nazis” argument.
Unironically a good comparison.
Nitrogen synthesis? Arguably one of the most life-saving inventions of all time. But also the basis for gas chambers.
I can celebrate the invention of synthetic fertilizer while also condemning Fritz Haber and Nazis in general.
A Red Sea blockade in protest of the Gaza genocide is a great idea. It’s a shame that the only group willing to do it is doing it recklessly and doesn’t have a moral leg to stand on otherwise either.
I can celebrate the invention of synthetic fertilizer while also condemning Fritz Haber and Nazis in general.
Fritz Haber? The man who invented the revolutionary process in 1918, long before the Nazis even existed, resigned immediately once they came into power, and tried to emigrate to Palestine to help the Jewish people there?
Don’t slander his name by associating him with the Nazis.
A Red Sea blockade in protest of the Gaza genocide is a great idea. It’s a shame that the only group willing to do it is doing it recklessly and doesn’t have a moral leg to stand on otherwise either.
I think those might be important factors to consider.
Oh? If I provide proof, will you admit that you’re bullshitting, or will you say “No, i-it’s just 1 or 2 or 3 or 5 or 10 posters, it doesn’t count!”
I would like to see your proof.
Not because I don’t think you have any, mind you. I’m sure you do. (Or you’ve got like, giant fucking stones.)
I somehow don’t manage to see comments like that and want to know what I’m missing out on.I am just curious. I look at car accidents even though I know I’m not supposed to.
And like, it’s not just a politeness, or a ‘don’t accidentally run over a first responder’ (unless they’re a cop) thing – a friend told me they once looked at a car accident (involving a motorcycle) and saw a disembodied head and that they will never be the same again.“The Houthis don’t want to kill anyone and they only hate LGBT folk because of The Evil West”
“Houthis are just Legitimate Opposition”
Bravely standing together with the Houthis
A large number of comments (all from the same thread, maybe?) I faved seem to have been deleted since the height of discourse on the Houthis a few months ago, and I can’t access them anymore. I should’ve screenshotted them instead of favoriting. If you type ‘Houthi’ into Hexbear, you’ll find plenty of weirdness, though, if your interest is just in seeing the car wreck. Lemmygrad probably you’ll get similar but less entertainingly vile results.
Idk I just had the gif laying around.
Generally, unless you are on lemmygrad or hexbear, this just isn’t something that happens.
I’ve seen 2 memes complaining about this and no examples of it. I’m perfectly willing to believe that it has happened - if there’s a crazy thought, someone will spout it online.
But it doesn’t seem either widespread or representative of the actual beliefs of real humans in the world.
I’m in the same boat and it’s not the first time I’ve seen it happen (with other topics). Multiple memes about the thing, 0 of the thing…
I see it on Lemmy often enough to be annoyed by it. On Reddit, before I left for good, it was an article of faith in tankie-controlled subreddits.
So if it’s just a tankie thing why are you accusing broader leftists of it?
It’s not just a tankie thing, unless the usage of tankie has expanded since I last checked. Tankie-controlled subreddits were frequented by far more than just tankies. Furthermore, it’s not all leftists, or even most leftists I’m accusing of this. My point is that it’s bizarre when self-proclaimed leftists do praise the Houthis, precisely because the Houthis are a far-right theocracy.
I didn’t realize Houthis being far-right theocrats was such a contentious point to you.
It’s a “no true scotsman” but those aren’t leftists. Leftists don’t praise and try to emulate autocrats. Those are people pretending to be leftists who are trying to co-opt, radicalize, or confuse leftists.
Leftism by definition is opposed to authoritarians.
Explain the absolute takes on the Russian war by Jeremy Corbin and Noam Chomsky. They have encouraged Ukraine to surrender, which is tacit approval of Russia’s invasion by giving Russia everything that they ever asked for
Explain Hassan shilling for Hamas
They have encouraged Ukraine to surrender,
Show me where Corbyn and Chomsky has said this.
https://twitter.com/achkhikvadze/status/1786879477919649927
He is just saying Ukraine can’t win so it has to accept Russia’s terms (which are basically surrendering its sovereignty)
He is just saying Ukraine can’t win
I guess it’s just a pure coincidence that it’s now perfectly clear that Ukraine can’t win, eh?
Ukraine actually can’t lose as long as it has the support of the free world
Here’s Corbyn doing his job as a Russian asset trying to stop the flow of weapons into Ukraine
Here’s what I typed…
Show me where Corbyn and Chomsky has said this.
Did you misunderstand, perhaps? Here’s what I absolutely did not say…
Show me where Corbyn and Chomsky talked about the practical options Ukraine faces so that you can interpret this as “surrender.”
Is any of this getting through to you?
Neither of those say what you say they said…
Corbin says he encourages “peace” efforts rather than war efforts, which you know duh everybody does.
Chompsky is similar, why or rather now are you twisting either of those in your head to mean something else?
What the actual fuck? War efforts are what’s needed. Because you know, people are dying because of Russian bombs. It’s shooting back that saves lives. Defending their viewpoints is basically tacit approval of wars of aggression.
Notice I didn’t take a stance I simply stated that what you said that article contained is not in fact the truth.
People who advocate for peace with Russia are in fact advocating for Ukrainian surrender. That’s because Russia’s condition IS surrender. If they had more modest goals, that would be one thing
Hassan
You mean the grifter? He knows what he is doing. And he is doing this on purpose.
radicalize
Leftists are radicalized by default, genius.
Some are pretending to be leftists. But some just have a Manichean view of the world that they can’t shake. Some people change labels when they convert from fundamentalist religion or blind nationalism, but don’t change the framework of their views.
Some are pretending to be leftists.
Says the liberal pretending to be a leftist.
The liberal who doesn’t believe in the concept of critical support.
edit: Sorry… replied to the wrong post.
What do they say that makes you think they’re more liberal than leftist?
Just trying to learn, not arguing or anything
Judging the means by which the colonized resists their colonizers is pretty much liberalism on a stick. Resisting colonialism in real life is not Ewoks, Millenium Falcons and happy endings. It’s nasty, messy and brutal.
This user literally expected Palestinians to wait for the west’s pearl-clutching to stave off Israel’s genocide - you know, that thing that has failed to stop Israel for decades now - instead of accepting the logistics and support Iran is obviously willing to supply (albeit for Iran’s own geopolitical ends). It doesn’t get more Liberal™ than this.
This is literally the kind of white liberalism that MLK criticized in his Birmingham letters - and, having spent a lot of time now dealing with the liberal hive mind here on lemmy.world, I suspect MLK had put his finger on something that is far, far more dangerous and deeply-rooted than the left wants to believe.
I’m 1000% with you. I probably just don’t understand enough context of the Middle East conflict to see where he did what you’re saying.
How are you inferring that about their views on Palestinian resistance? Are the Houthis like Hamas or something and he’s saying it’s wrong that anyone would support them?
I’ll be honest, I upvoted that comment because I agree with the idea that people might change labels and not actually change their beliefs or how they come to conclusions. I’m removing the upvote now though because I clearly didn’t understand it entirely and I’ve learned I’m not the biggest fan of neo-liberalism. I still want to be able to comprehend what they wrote better so that’s why I’m asking.
Edit: I also find it weird to say everyone/most people that disagree with me are fake and malicious. I’d be inclined to assume they’re just ignorant or whatever. There’s a lot to learn to be a good leftist, imo!
Are the Houthis like Hamas or something and he’s saying it’s wrong that anyone would support them?
Think about what this would look like during WW2. Would rooting for the Soviets to win the battle of Stalingrad make you a Stalinist or even a tankie? Of course it wouldn’t - you are just cogniscent of the fact that things would actually get a whole lot worse if the Soviets lose. But that won’t stop a whole bunch of fascists (and their liberal sympathizers) from pretending that you are. Not much has changed about that.
When someone is dropping bombs on your neighborhood and murdering people like you right in front of your eyes you don’t get the luxury of waiting for a squeaky-clean and Hollywood-perfect organisation to hand out AKs and Semtex - you have to go with what is there. And a lot of what is there aren’t the nicest of people because the nicer people either don’t have the logistic support to give you anything or are simply dead. If the old PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization - which was a lot more nationalistic than Hamas) was still around, these same liberals would be hysterically demonizing them in this scenario, too.
There’s a lot to learn to be a good leftist, imo!
Not much point in being a “good leftist” (whatever that may mean) in my opinion - I’d rather say be a “good at it” leftist.
That makes a lot of sense. I appreciate the explanation and WW2 comparison.
That last bit was a light joke. When I’ve asked others questions in the past I’ve been met with hostility; some people seem to act as though a lot of this stuff is obvious. Maybe it is for some, or I’m just a bit dense
Think about what this would look like during WW2. Would rooting for the Soviets to win the battle of Stalingrad make you a Stalinist or even a tankie? Of course it wouldn’t - you are just cogniscent of the fact that things would actually get a whole lot worse if the Soviets lose. But that won’t stop a whole bunch of fascists (and their liberal sympathizers) from pretending that you are. Not much has changed about that.
Hey, what’s your opinion on Biden again?
Generally speaking (and impersonally) it usually comes down to the intersection of capitalism and war. Pure unadulterated military industrial complex is a hallmark of American-style liberalism. So if a person identifies with the military industrial complex that will usually be your prime indicator. It isn’t perfect but it’s fairly reliable with a few exceptions.
That makes perfect sense. Where did they identify with the military industrial complex?
Sorry if I’m coming off dumb. It seems like y’all are reading between the lines/catching some kind of dog whistle, or I just missed something super obvious
I am trying to be diplomatic so I was speaking in general and not about anyone specifically.
Now if you check any given person’s post history you can usually get a clearer picture.
(There’s just known personalities and prejudices at work here rather than random strangers inferring things on this thread alone.)
You mean like Hamas? Leftists have this oppression totempole, and anyone being “oppressed” are automatically good.
People don’t like complex problems. And no, I probably don’t side with you.
You don’t have to be “good” to deserve human rights.
Sure. But at the same time, if you attempt to commit genocide, porportional self defense is fair. The question becomes what is porportional.
You yourself just cut a check for Hamas to indiscriminately slaughter 29k israelis as “proportional self defense” for how far in the red that ledger is over Oct 7th.
Considering they shot a rocket at a hospital and blamed the IDF, I wouldnt be surprised if we’re already there. Impossible to know for sure though
Proportional self-defense probably ended before November, though, when the Palestinian civilian death toll hopped up to over triple the Israeli civilian death toll from the Hamas attack.
Well, from that single attack on Oct 7th, but thats just one attack out of many. Its unclear just how many have been killed, and by who.
Not really. Even the highest estimates of Israeli casualties for the entire year don’t come close.
Maybe? Hamas clearly gives zero shits about civilians and theres so much propaganda coming out, I wouldnt be surprised to find out Hamas has a higher body count.
Hell, I wouldnt put it past Hamas to delibritly murder Gaza civilians in order to blame the IDF. Hell, didnt they hit a hospital with a rocket?
Stalin would disagree
OP blames all the world’s ills on anyone to the left of Manchin.
The modern definition of leftism is socialism and co. And socialism is inherently authoritarian.
Giving the people the power of the economy is authoritarian. That makes sense.
Giving the people the power of the economy
That’s called capitalism.
is that a joke or is that a serious claim?
Wut?
Do you really believe capitalism gives economical to the people? And if yes, do you say “people” as “everyone” or “people” as “some people based on some criteria”?
There’s no need to believe in facts.
TIL… Elon’s Apartheid-catalyzed wealth is an example of “giving the people the power of the economy.”
You should come up for air every now and then, bootlicker.
Go buy some vitamins, you have a severe case of brain deficiency.
Don’t choke yourself… just because you like the taste of expensive shoe polish doesn’t mean it has to go all the way in.
You’re cute and all, but you should seriously consider getting mental help.
Where is a socialist country run by people instead of a political elite class?
Socialism is uneventful authoritarian? The ideology where power, ownership of production, and wealth is decentralized, removed from the oligarchs and capitalist elite and given back to those who generate it? That’s authoritarian?
I think you, like many who have been subjected to decades of propaganda have equated “socialism” with the failed states that are “communist” in name only, where power and production was centralized to be redistributeto the people, but never followed through with the decentralized part. They’re certainly authoritarian, but they are not socialist.
When you see “leftists” praising Biden.
DAE PALESTINE? DAE GENICODE?!
October 7 has been a full mask off event. Never in my life did I think I would see university students chanting in the streets for Hamas. A genocidal theocratic terrorist organisation which would sooner murder everyone protesting for them than give women and minorities rights. Horseshoe Theory isn’t a theory anymore. It’s real and it’s here.
Pretty sure most students are protesting against IDF actions resulting in civilian casualties rather that for HAMAS
university students chanting in the streets for Hamas.
Gonna need a video on that one.
Easy when you consider anyone not supporting Israeli genocide wholeheartedly is Hamas. Just like criticising Israeli government is anti-semitism.
Leftist around here just means a friend of americas enemies, economics and social issues never seem to enter into it, excepto as meaningless verbal cudgels.
That’s just not true though.
Where exactly have you been browsing bud?
Lemmy.ml is usually pretty bad for that shite.
I remember seeing a pro-Palestine protest in Atlanta where they were chanting “Yemen, Yemen do us proud/turn another ship around”, so yeah this isn’t a straw man claim.
When are people on both the right and left going to learn. There is no one in the middle east who’s values actually align with yours. So stop supporting a side and lets get our selves completely out of not our business.
Though genocide is our business so that’s the one time we should take a side.
But in everything else where we’ve taken a side it has been a mistake. Folk on all sides of the middle east project to the west an image they hope will garner sympathy in hopes we will fight wars for them and they can avoid fighting their own wars. “Genuineness” is a uniquely western thing to see as a positive value. Absolutely no culture in the middle east values presenting an honest image of themselves to us. The idea of that being socially positive or necessary for their own sense of ethics is literally foreign to them. I’m not trying to single out Muslim countries or Israel. What I’m saying is we in the west do in fact have values that are particular to us, and we need to stop imagining those values on others. That’s why the whole of the middle east is like that. Because they aren’t us.
Then the other thing we should understand is that all sides employ what are basically professional communicators who study our culture and use what they understand of it to manipulate us. So we get dragged into problems that aren’t ours and expose ourselves to actual security threats as a result.
Which values? I have met authoritarians, democrats, socialists, and theocrats in Missouri. Why should Yemen be different? I find this “East vs. West” cultural/values narrative to be a convenient fiction for demagogues to take advantage of.
The Kurds are pretty based, all things considered. They deserved better.
In case anybody was unaware, here’s some info about the Houthi flag:
The slogan of the Houthi movement (officially called “Ansar Allah”), a Shia Islamist political and military organization in Yemen, reads “God Is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, A Curse Upon the Jews, Victory to Islam”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slogan_of_the_Houthi_movement
If you read a bit of the recent sick Yemen history that flag makes a lot of sense.
What’s more likely;
Their online identities are real and their support for authoritarian nazi-types is fake.
OR
Their online identities are just a mask and their support for authoritarian nazi-types is 100% genuine.
Given how much Lemmy “leftists” trip all over each other in order to praise the Chinese characteristics that cause “socialism” to produce billionaires while overlooking human rights abuses, yeah, I think it is the authoritarianism they like and not the economics.
Hate to tell you but authoritarianism isn’t endemic to either the left or the right.
True, but the auth-left is really rabid for authority. Sometimes it’s not even very left but it’s some “trusted institution” and it’s “unamerican” to question it. I say question all power structures. Because if you can’t even question them you are in a bad place culturally.
There’s certainly a “baby socialist” to china stan pipeline. I’ve heard people blame PSL for this irl, but that group doesn’t exist in my area. Online, there’s probably some communities that i could care less about that act as these pipelines.
And if you stay at that baby socialist stage and come out on the other side of the pipeline, you will end up one of the least socialistic people who has deeply authoritarian views and the worst takes. “Ah yes, i’m a socialist, we need 100 years of brutal authoritarian state capitalism to build our industrial capacity to allow us to transition to socialism. That’s what marx meant when talking about the dictatership of the proletariat.” -statements dreamed up by the utterly deranged
The most common one I have seen irl is people who are actually on the left, communists, trotskyists, marxist-leninists who are extremly anti-america under the guise of anti-imperialism who have slowly turned into campist “if they are against america that’s good” types
How much they like them varies. I’ve seen people who hate them, they just hate them less than the US, and see them as a part in their undoing. I’ve seen people who kinda like them, but only in the sense they are a resistance. Granted, those people will actually condemn them if it comes to their crimes.
I’ve also seen people focus solely on the yemeni people, and after giving a speech at a protest someone got upset at them for “supporting the houthis.” And in that speech that person mentioned the yemeni people’s suffering under the houthis and their need to go. Some people will also just conflate individual living under a repressive regime to being a member of it, and use that to vilify solidarity with the oppressed. I’ve seen that a lot with calling every palestinian a hamas supporter.
Online people, on the other hand… 😬
