Higher FPS? Classical Ninendo games don’t use FPS as timer?
According to the video, game logic is still opperating at 20hz and the GPU uses frame interpolation to tripple the FPS.
Thanks! Didn’t saw the video.
I don’t think n64 did. They even had major frame drops in many games.
I thought there were many aspects of the games directly tied to fram rate.
I know that, at least in the case of mario 64, Speed runners abuse game mechanics tied to frame rate to perform tricks such as backwards long jump and other door hacks. Marios eyes blinking are tied to frame rate, they used this to identify faked speed runs in some cases.
I imagine there must be other things aswell.
Yes. I know Zelda Ocarina of Time has many things, including walking speed, tied to framerate because of ZFG. Also, the 3DS remake reused a lot of the code and several things tied to framerate got quicker because it ran at 30 fps instead of 20. Items despawn quicker because they despawn at a set amount of frames.
Perhaps they add code to split physics and grsphical fps.
This is what they do in the manual decompile projects (like is happening for Majora’s mask now), but this tool can only preserve logic.
Someone fucking message me when we have a working Battle for Naboo ROM.
Battle for Naboo actually had an official PC version all the way back in 2001. No idea if it works on modern PCs, though.
The keyboard controls are very janky. You’d have to do custom button mapping with a controller, and there’s no analog input. At least not without some mods that I’m not sure exist.
IIRC, the original cartridge had an extra chip in it that emulation hasn’t been able to use. I’m not sure if any progress has been made on this and a few other games that used these.
SuperFX SNES games can be emulated, right?
I’m pretty sure that has been able to be emulated and run through most emulation software now. These Star Wars games had specific code and drivers that, when I looked up why it wouldn’t emulate years ago, had not been cracked open to get the source code to enable people to program it into emulation software.
Nah it didn’t have an extra chip – but large portions of the game were written in microcode for the N64’s processor specifically. It’s part of what makes it and Rogue Squadron kind of a pain to emulate – along with using their own audio drivers (MoSYS/MusyX that were later used as the basis for the GameCube sound systems).
IIRC there was an official Windows port at some point though. Not sure how well it worked or works on modern systems.
Wait… Y’all are talking about X-Wing: Rogue Squadron and Star Wars Episode 1: Battle for Naboo, right?
I owned those windows ports!
They worked great back in the day - I had such a blast with them that I begged my parents to get me a shitty Logitech joystick! If you want to check them out, it looks like Rogue Squadron is only $10 on Steam; and Battle for Naboo seems to be abandonware, but it seems to be hosted on a lot of “better spread than dead” game sites.
Probably a lot of work for a single game.
Nintendos already preparing their ninjas
Nintendo right now: Get Boeing on the line
Nintendo’s execs calling Boeing’s execs: “Hey, can you refer us to your…fixers? You know…rhymes with shmassassin…yeah you know, those guys.”
Smash Sassin*
Change it to “Boeingman” lol
If they want the job done, he’s not taking a 747
No thats how he kills them
“You’re asking about our Garbage Men?”
“No, I mean… Wait, actually maybe…”
sends the QA department
Quality Assassins, what did you think it stood for?
I’m wondering how much this will help the handheld scene. N64 emulation is pretty notoriously shitty on many handhelds.
Delta is a great app if you have iPhone and a Backbone controller 👀
It won’t help emulation but on pc/steamdeck you can natively compile it so that there no need for it anymore. Not sure about smartphone but I’m sure that it should be possible!
Yes, that was kind of my point. N64 emulation on handhelds often sucks. So being able to have games recompiled to be better optimized on something like the Miyoo Mini would be great. While it is cool for the PC because it can allow for enhancements much more easily, just getting games up and running at a minimum is not an issue for any PC made in the last decade or two.
Why is n64 emulation so bad in particular? I got my girlfriend one of those handhelds preloaded up with roms and although I haven’t tried any n64 games it seems to run other 3d games from other consoles of that Era fine. Also I remember having an n64 emulator on my modded original xbox that could run games fine, I played through all of mario64 on it during quarantine before I built a new gaming pc. I feel like handhelds should have similar power to an old Xbox by now but maybe not.
Well, usually those re-compilers or transpilers just translate the binary to some sort of intermediate language and then any backend should be able to compile it for your target system. So, in theory those handheld could be targeted. Problem with this project is that it’s not just “start transpiler, load rom, click go and your port is ready”. It’s more like "ok, here’s your game logic. Now implement the rest (or use several other projects and duct tape their libraries together to get what you want).
Ohhh sorry, I was confused by the recent decompiling of Zelda MM.
I didn’t realized it wasn’t referring to it…
It’s referring to both. The recompiler links to the Zelda project and basically tells you “if you want to haven an example how to.proceed/what to implement yourself after the recompilation finished, you can use the Zelda project as an example”.
Has anyone been able to get this working? I was able to compile it for zelda but nothing else.
Nice try Nintendo lawyer.
Video: “Even Superman64 -a direct affront to God- has a port”
lol
Obligatory AVGN link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dJXgJ1c4vY
I wouldn’t call it an affront.
More of a proof that a god doesn’t exist
Superman 64 Wide-screen with ray tracing?! Now that’s gaming!
Nintendo could have raked in millions by doing it themselves, but they prefer their closed ecosystem.
Has nothing to do with their closed eco system. They basically did similar stuff with some of the stuff in the sm3d collection thingy.
Nintendo is a company that only wants make new stuff, innovations.
For example, they ( mostly miyomoto ) has been quoted to not understand that people want another f-zero, as the game’s principals and ideas have been fully flushed out and no new ideas could make it feel like something new.
They also usually dont do remakes/remasters unless its so new/different it can be considered a new game ( see metroid 2 on 3ds ).If that is a smart business position to have, i will leave for you to decide, but do get your facts a bit straight :)
They basically did similar stuff with some of the stuff in the sm3d collection thingy.
They did not.
For Super Mario 64, they emulated it. They increased the resolution the game renders at (trivial with emulation of 3D systems) and they used basic LUA patches in the emulator to override HUD textures with higher resolution ones adjusted for the Switch controller.
They did not add any further enhancements in any way. Compared to even 64 DS, it was extremely sophomoric. Compared to the Super Mario 64 decomp project, and what its native switch port is capable of (more on that later), it’s an incredibly lazy port. They didn’t even fix the slowdown with Bowser’s Sub that is as simple as adjusting a single compiler flag when you build the ROM from the N64 game source code.
For Sunshine, it’s an admittedly impressive solution of mostly emulation with some sections of the game engine ported (I think it’s the audio processing?). Once again, the game is rendered at a higher resolution, but they did not redo ot improve further any textures (besides some of the HUD again), graphical effects, or game content. Wind Waker HD this ain’t.
For Galaxy they cannibalized the existing port of it to Android on the NVidia Shield. The Switch shares most of the important internals with it (CPU, GPU). It’s a combo of emulation with certain key code ported, like Sunshine. Again, besides resolution and HUD, no improvements.
Beyond that, Nintendo has been content to sell straight up emulation through the Virtual Console service since the Wii. They’ve had multiple instances of straight ports over the years, and some of the most popular Switch games are straight ports with DLC bundled in.
There are numerous impressive remakes they have done over the years, but that is absolutely not the norm.
The Super Mario 64 decomp on the Switch supports (not available in Nintendo’s official port in 3D All Stars):
- Effectively infinite render distance for objects (coins, enemies, stars, etc)
- 60 fps (compared to the original/all stars 30fps at best)
- True analog camera control using the right stick (All Stars is just the original’s clunky button based control mapped to the stick)
- All sorts of QoL options like collecting stars not kicking you out of a level, options for streamlined/faster message boxes
- Optional bugfixes
- Optional cheats
- Variety of HD texture packs to choose from
- Variety of higher quality 3D model packs to choose from
- Support for an astounding variety of mods. Levels, entire new games, new characters, new movement and control options (Odyssey Mario in 64 with full cappy and enemy capture mechanics anyone?)
- Support for many more languages
- Nearly all of the above is toggleable mid-game from the pause menu.
I don’t think anyone was expecting something amazing out of 3D All Stars, but they absolutely fucking phoned it in.
Ye, the sm64 was just a jit emulation, you are correct there. Not gonna deny that either. The sms and smg emulations are interesting and impressive though. They basically use a combination of jit compilation and aot compilation to basically take in the rom and adjust code as they go, but its technically running +/- natively, if i read the switchbrew wiki page correctly, thanks to the aot compilation. I find that impressive, from a technical standpoint.
Could they have added more and do more changes? Yes, ofcourse. Im not saying the fan made stuff isnt impressive, it is and i love it!
But for nintendo, who strives to create new experiences and things, not rehashing older stuff, is why they kept it basic. For them adding that stuff doesnt make sense as the game doesnt add new enough experiences. They dont care if a bug is fixed or graphics are improved. Those dont get you new experiences or gameplay mechanics. Thats what nintendo strives for.Again, if that is a good stance to have as a company i leave up to others to make opinions on, thats not up to me to decide or voice my opinion on ^^
Fyi, since you seem to know what youre talking about, nintendo’s r&d have used open source projects before internally and we assume it is done to look at older games and see how they worked or if they could be used to make projects like sm3d ( without doing what the license doesnt permit )
Nintendo is a company that only wants make new stuff, innovations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_featuring_Mario
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Legend_of_Zelda_media
I think the point is they go for new games instead of remakes. Not that they don’t use the same IP.
I think the point is they go for new games instead of remakes.
https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_games_remade_for_Nintendo_Switch
https://www.nintendolife.com/guides/best-nintendo-remakes-and-remasters-of-all-time-ranked
Hell even the list of Wii-U games ported to the Switch is staggering. As an early adopter of the Wii-U, implying Nintendo doesn’t like rehashing old ideas is laughable.
https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Wii_U_games_ported_to_the_Nintendo_Switch_system
I didn’t realise so many non-Nintendo studios made games for Nintendo. I’m not a console gamer so I wouldn’t know. You should have posted this the first time, but I guess now you understood their point. You’re welcome :)
I didn’t realise so many non-Nintendo studios made games for Nintendo.
https://www.nintendolife.com/guides/best-nintendo-remakes-and-remasters-of-all-time-ranked
List Length: 41
Nintendo Developed Games: 21
Nintendo Published Games: 41
I think the point is [Nintendo goes] for new games instead of remakes.
They also usually dont do remakes/remasters unless its so new/different it can be considered a new game ( see metroid 2 on 3ds ).
Most of the games on that list fit that definition. Stuff like Zero Mission are extremely different from the original games.
Of course then you also have stuff like BDSP so it’s debatable whether they’ve kept up their policies in recent times, but you could definitely see that in the past.
Pokemon: Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Fire Red, Leaf Green, Let’s Go Pikachu, Let’s Go Eevee
For example, they ( mostly miyomoto ) has been quoted to not understand that people want another f-zero, as the game’s principals and ideas have been fully flushed out and no new ideas could make it feel like something new.
This is also why we’ll never get another Star Fox.
sad furry noises 😿
Innovate means needing to pay for an online service to transfer saves between consoles, saves stored on an SD card?
Do they DMCA fan made games because the game concepts have been fully fleshed out?
When copyright expires for FZero in a century perhaps we can find out if there’s more to be done (well, probably not us personally).
Nintendo is a company that only wants make new stuff
They’ve been digging mario out of the dumpster for the last 40 years wtf are you dementia-ing on about?
I think they mean either all-new or straight dumpster-dive, no enhancing old games.
What about all the HD Zelda remakes?
You’re missing the point.
Is the point “ignoring all exceptions, what I say is true”?
“Mario” barely qualifies as a single franchise at this point. It spans a ridiculous amount of genres.
But now they’ve got that new green Mario!
Damn you got mob downvoted for explaining exactly how Nintendo thinks. You’re absolutely right. People don’t seem to want to accept that Nintendo operates as an idea toy company. Once they’ve explored a new idea/gimmick they consider it completed and move on.
Haha, i kinda expected it tbh. The internet hates nintendo and doesnt know how they operate internally. Still wanted to make the comment, as it is needed.
Except they don’t? What about Odyssey was new? It’s just a new version of SM64. Sure, it’s got a few different mechanics than SM64, Sunshine, and Galaxy, but those are all the same game at the core, right? This isn’t the only series they do like this.
The game mechanics and gimmicks are different in everyone of the games you just listed.
Barely. Odyssey even specifically references most of the older games to point out how it’s very similar. They all add a small movement mechanic, but other than that jumping has been the same since SM64.
Ok. Let me know after you’ve actually played any of those games.
Have a good one.
See my edit above.
Also, check out this video. It has a lot of side-by-side comparisons of SM64 and Odyssey.
The developers wouldn’t argue it isn’t treading the same ground. In some cases, they literally have you tread the same ground. They send you back to Peach’s castle, just like we’re back in SM64. They know they’re running off of nostalgia.
Every game repeats stuff from older games. The 3D Super Mario games do this more than most. Call of Duty has changed more than these games have.
I can’t think of another series that repeats the same things, tell you explicitly as part of the game that it’s repeating the same things, and then has fans argue it isn’t repeating things again. Of course it is. We all know if is, and that’s part of why it sells. There’s so much nostalgia bait because they know the nostalgia is what sells a lot of their games.
I haven’t owned a Nintendo console since the SNES, but I’ve played a bit of SM64, a good chunk of Sunshine, and most of Odyssey (all when they were new, not since). I can tell how much they all share and I’m not even a fan of the games. An honest fan would agree.
The quality of what the community is doing vs what they shipped with NSO especially on launch is laughable.
Native OoT and MM on the switch would have been really sick. Instead they went with 90s level of emulator quality.
I was actually going to pay for NSO solely to be able to play OoT on the Switch. Then I saw that it was a pile of emulated muddied crap.
When Conker’s Bad Fur Day is available with unlocked resolution and widescreen, let me know.
Shame the sequel was just dlc for an unrelated game and only lasted a year before Microsoft pulled the plug
🎵 I am the grrreat mighty poo… 🎵
Didn’t read the article, did Nintendo pay to develop this to be able to preserve the games history and release them for free so they can get some new fans for these retro games and IPs to maybe encourage them to buy some newer released games in the same series?
The was a long sentence. I imagined you gasping for breath at the end.
Maybe it was written that way to make you read faster as you get toward the end to convey a sense of facetiousness because I didn’t need to read the article to know none of that’s true, who knows. I’m probably just spending too much time online lately.
Exactly, with Nintendo’s existing IP and old gamers dying, they need a way to get younger generation exposed to what kids in the 80s and 90s grew up with and make sure that it’s plastered on all the streaming websites to get maximum exposure.
Maybe read the article to find out.
Damn. Thats impressive.
Seriously! To push through in spite of Nintendo’s reputation.
I wonder if this will help n64 games run on the retro handhelds. They can already play n64 pretty well but this might help increase the fps
Will be interesting to see if this is useful for non-PC platforms as well; I’ve got a Myioo Mini Plus (basically an ARM SBC in a GameBoy-esque case designed to run RetroArch) - it’s not really powerful enough to run a N64 emulator, but if I could recompile the games in my PC and run them natively then maybe that’ll work better?
Emulating N64 is particular can be a lot of overhead - it’s possible this could help!
Yeah, I was a little surprised - the MMP can do PS1 emulation no issue, but apparently N64 is too much. I would have thought it would be the other way round
Idk about this, but the Mario 64 decompile was recompiled to run on my Anbernic 353 at 60fps, runs amazing. So I think it should be at least theoretically possible.
this was always possible, not sure why people are just now freaking out about it.
I remember someone doing the same thing with NES back in 2013: https://andrewkelley.me/post/jamulator.html
It was always possible with tons and tons of work; the news is that some dude made a tool that makes it a piece of cake to recompile the games directly from a ROM.
I wonder how much talent is wasted because of jaded programmers that think it’s dumb (to them) to make something simple even if it would become very popular and maybe profitable
Just so you know, the actual source code for this project mentions both Jamulator and another project that did this for the N64.
This is very similar to something we did in engineering school in like 2008. For a reconfigurable computing project we translated machine code into HDL.
This is something you could have done for a while if you had a few million dollars to pay a team of computer engineers to do it. The new part is the classic “some dude figured out an efficient way to do it in his garage over the summer.”
can be done as a school project
needs a few million dollars
which is it?
Yes
The cost of hiring a team of programmers the size of a large class can easily cost millions of dollars. There’s a long history of class projects accomplishing things in computer science that would have cost millions. Look at BSD for example.
unironically all you really need is one or two neurospicy individuals that are passionate about your project and just about anything can be done in a matter of weeks.
You could say that about basically anything: it only takes one or two passionate people to [write a great novel, build a house, invent something new, prove a scientific theory, advance the field of mathematics] in a matter of weeks.
Those are rare and impressive exceptions, it’s not so simple in practice. The Mythical Man Month has some good insight on this. Big projects cost big money, and don’t necessarily get the job done faster.
Ok, any info on how that’s being done? It sure sounds like Wiseguy figured how to compile the code that was meant for the specific VR4300 (RISC) N64’s CPU for typical x86-64 architecture
Apple Rosetta 2 technically recompiles code from x86 to arm too in jit and sometimes aot, also there’s box86/64 open source project, only difference between example I’ve said and OP is recompilation actually saves all results and not just cache, another difficulty is in OS difference, he needs not just binary translate but have something akin to WINE too while he recompiles code
If he’s compiling from windows to windows, target OS shouldn’t be a problem. Also, I just had to go one extra click to read Mr-Wiseguy’s github 😅
He could also, in theory, use Cosmopolitan to generate an APE (Actually Portable Executable) that will run on linux, bsd, windows and mac. I had to find a video where Justine talks about it to understand how and why it works: it’s basically a trick to rewrite the header of the executable, with the real magic being an “optional shebang” that lets both Windows and *Nix run the first bytes.
Thanks for detailed reply, i understood everything except i don’t understand how cosmopolitan filters syscalls because deferent OS have different syscalls, otherwise there wouldn’t be need for WINE
She starts explaining APE at around 14:30. The executable is a “Windows MZ executable” that runs everywhere else, including off BIOS. Before that, she shows her redbean http server, which uses this tech.
https://invidious.baczek.me/watch?v=1ZTRb-2DZGs – original YT link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZTRb-2DZGs
