The admins on lemmynsfw.com have decided to allow “non-IRL loli”, i.e. drawn porn involving children/teenagers. (Post: https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29633).
Irrelevant of the moral issues that this poses, such content is illegal in many countries (e.g the UK). Continuing to federate with lemmynsfw.com will put users at risk of significant legal repercussions.
Please would the admins consider defederating unless lemmynsfw change their policy.
UPDATE: The lemmynsfw admins posted an clarification here: https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29826. My original argument for defederating doesn’t stand any more.
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They did post an update about it
Looks like its less about blatant loli/shota content and more about “characters who are petite/young-looking but not obviously underage”
How and if that changes anyones feelings about it is up to them.
“characters who are petite/young-looking but not obviously underage”
yeah of course they’re not gonna come out and say “yeah we want to host and share drawn CSAM” and they’re going to be weasely and sneaky about it, do you really plan to take pedophiles and pedophile enablers at the honor of their word here
I don’t care about drawings, there are no victims, but if it’s illegal by law it poses a problem.
2 weeks ago: Lemmy is so amazing, create an account anywhere and you can access everything! It’s like forums but better!
Now: defederate >:(
Ugh. I get the concern in scenarios like this, but in the last couple of days every instance has calls to defederate from this or that. Eventually it’s just gonna be small islands of “very compatible” instances.
Well, guess it’s back to making separate accounts for everything!
That’s a bit dramatic. Most of the big instances will stay federated with most of the others.
Some topics that are just too intolerable to the general population will get isolated. Pedo content, Nazis, etc. if you feel you need to make a second account to go participate in those things, well you do you I guess…
Well, Beehaw already defederated from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, a few fairly normal instances don’t federate with lemmy.ml, even more don’t federate with lemmigrad, calls to defed from lemmynsfw were there from its very first day, never mind burggit.
Like, okay I get it that it’s not a drop-in Reddit replacement and instance owners can do whatever they like - but I still wonder where it leads at the end.
Well lemmy.ml is run by pretty much the same people as lemmygrad. Before the Reddit drama .ml was filled with mostly the same kind of politics. They chose the .ml extension to signify Marxism-Leninism I believe. So it’s not that surprising that some have blocked them.
But anyway, where does it lead? We’re just in flux. Everyone is figuring everything out. Instances will stabilize. Norms will be established. Everything will be fine. Some pockets will get isolated, but I believe the vast majority will stay together. Once in a while there will be some drama, some splits and spats. It’ll be fine, people will shift. Balance will return.
Defederation leads to echo chambers. I’ve certainly had enough of that in Reddit!
If any illegal content would be posted there, let us know. If it’s 1 community, we can block the community. If it’s all over the place, we can defederate. But I see defederation as a last resort. If there are other ways to keep our server safe I prefer that.
I think it’s worth pointing out that legality depends on jurisdiction and while it’s obviously a requirement to obey the your (and other admins’) local laws, it’s not quite so clear-cut when it comes to other countries.
Eg. It’s illegal to criticize Hong Kong’s government under their National Security Law. But I think we’d (the community here, not just you and me) agree that lemmy.world has absolutely no obligation to follow that law.
Wow the potential for a /c/lemmydrama is already brewing with that admin’s responses lol.
I see what they mean about petite/young looking people, but is this the hill they really want to die on? They’re making proper moderation more difficult for themselves by splitting hairs.
I think those countries should put the resources used to go after neckbeards fapping to drawings to investigate people trafficking real children.
Tbh, I feel like it actually should be defederated. I am not against porn, I literally made an account there like I have a separate account on reddit for porn, but I would love to not have all the porn stuff flooding the feed on my sfw account. Sadly there are no convenient filter options yet as it seems.
You can enable “disable NSFW” in user settings
I wish there was a way to separate NSFW a little more - I don’t mind NSFW stories and adult language and so forth when scrolling but if I’m in public I don’t want to scroll All and see porn. I have no problem with porn, but to me there’s a time and place.
When I have NSFW disabled, I’m losing entire communities that I read the stories from because sometimes the content does 100% need the warning flag that it might not be for general audiences, but I don’t mind seeing an R rated movie in public while I won’t go see an NC-17 movie or an X rated movie in a theatre, personally, if that makes sense.
If you choose an instance that has nsfw disabled, you can’t see those communities on lemmynsfw anyway, even via the search functions.
Instances that do have nsfw enabled needs to be careful as if one of their users goes onto an other instances community with illegal nsfw stuff, it’s cached on their servers anyway just like your browser caches the images and videos from websites. I guess the cache can be deleted on a cron job but still something I would wanna stay away from if I was a Lemmy instance admin. Defederating would be what stops this.
As a federation shouldn’t we start with Diplomacy? This is a prime example. We didn’t wait long enough, and it was clarified rather quickly.
Defederation should require more deliberation and unless an immediate emergency shouldn’t there be other actions under consideration first.
