This is my favorite kind of conspiracy theory
I don’t think its outlandish to believe Trump - a man notorious for surrounding himself with gadflies and sycophants - would suck up some FSB assets while populating his administration. And a personal meeting with the Russian President would be the perfect opportunity for an intelligence hand-off.
“Donald Trump wrote a list of CIA agents on his arm with a sharpie and showed it to Putin at the meeting” is goofy bullshit. But “someone in Trump’s administration used their proximity to the President to harvest names from unredacted reports and feed them to the Kremlin in exchange for cash/favors/blackmail” is very easy to believe.
Hell, its not too difficult to believe moles existed in Obama, Bush, and Clinton administrations, either (or that the CIA has moles in the Kremlin). These are two of the most sophisticated and well-financed intelligence networks in the world. And guys like Yeltsin and Trump were both gullible rubes with deep mob connections who would be prime targets for this kind of infiltration.
Remember as well, trump’s business ties (the only kind of ties he pays attention to -such as it is) in russia go back forty years. He’s been there a lot. He’s tied into their mafias in more than ten ways. It’s not just vanilla doing-what-putin-wants, it’s a decades-long operation.
Remember as well, trump’s business ties (the only kind of ties he pays attention to -such as it is) in russia go back forty years.
The fixation on the ties as “Russian” are misplaced, as they’re largely via the New York mafia and attendant money laundering banks. I would look more towards the Steve Bannons and Zachary Fuentes’s, were I to be looking for folks leaking to the FSB.
It’s not just vanilla doing-what-putin-wants, it’s a decades-long operation.
Trump pretty famously doesn’t pay well, which means a lot of his staff ultimately need to be on the take in order to make working for Trump profitable. And its not in any way unique to Vlad.
Abso-fuckin-lutely, it’s completely believable.
If anyone thinks that the CIA and deep state is still secretly controlling the United States, picking the leaders, influencing media to present only the narrative that they want to see presented… well, now you got your answer. They’re not. If they were, every single TV news show every single night would be running stories about this kind of thing, and good things Biden has done, and associates of Trump who need to be in prison who aren’t yet.
The irony is that some version of that influence and control campaign actually is happening now, on behalf of other countries, on social media. Their propaganda is getting presented front and center and getting tons of traction, and the US is in the unusual position of playing catch up on the influencing-mass-opinion game.
I say the CIA never had any meaningful domestic power. They were a convenient place for J Edgar Hoover to point at when he didn’t want scrutiny on his agency and the secret nature of their work in addition to the considerable power of the FBI under Hoover kept them from defending themselves.
I say the CIA never had any meaningful domestic power.
crack epidemic?
George HW Bush was director of the CIA before President, but i guess that doesnt count as meaningful enough for you?
It doesn’t count as the CIA. When HW became President, HE had the power, not the CIA.
Since we’re big fans of attributing causation to correlation here, he was also captain of his HS varsity baseball team, and I think that’s what really got him the presidency.
And before that, his family got rich aiding the Nazis.
He was also Vice President to a very popular President immediately before being elected. I think that had more to do with his becoming President than his time as director of the CIA.
I feel there’s an element in the CIA that’s totally OK with Trump being in power, because it means they get everything green-lit (or Trump simply handwaves them gaining semi-autonomy again, like the bad old days). Remember, the years where they could simply launch a completely unauthorized coup in a foreign country are still within living memory, and well within institutional memory, and I’m sure there’s enough spooks that absolutely want that sort of power back.
Remember, the years where they could simply launch a completely unauthorized coup in a foreign country are still within living memory, and well within institutional memory, and I’m sure there’s enough spooks that absolutely want that sort of power back.
I thought that was within living memory because that shit was still happening right now, and they just tend to declassify shit that’s like 50 years old that they don’t care about anymore, so that’s why we only ever hear about the ones that happened 50 years ago.
I think it’s more like the CIA is just running a completely different game. They wouldn’t dare want to bring any attention to themselves. The last thing they want is national scrutiny, even if it begins with the public on their side all it does is open the door for more probes and questions about where their money goes and what they’ve been doing.
Basically if Trump wins the US will be more or less a vassal state to Russia.
That is a possibility at least, however remote.
If you were Putin, you’d be doing everything in your power to make sure Trump wins.
Fredo Corleone would have figured out that, as President, he was in a much stronger position and could extort billions from Putin.
Any Scooby-Doo villain would have figured it out.
James from Team rocket would have figured it out.
Don Poorleone is all about himself and himself he owes a lot to putin.
I think you mean “Cheeto Poorleone”, but that was close.
Don Cheeto Poorleone would be correct.
Don Cheeto PoorSnoreleone
Putin is his daddy in all the ways you can think of
But a disturbing amount of Lemmy is ready and willing to risk making him President because of one issue that Trump would also do nothing to fix.
You guys should really think about changing your voting system.
Our voting uses something called a Single Transferable Vote. You can rank candidates in order of preference - last place gets eliminated and any views they got are instead transferred to each voters’ next preference. Repeat until there’s only one left.
It cuts out most of the stupid games and you get to see people’s positions more honestly.
In this case it’s let people vote for an anti genocide candidate and still indicate that they’d prefer Biden over Trump.
The year Trudeau first ran he talked a big game. The Conservative party was unpopular after being in power for a decade and the NDP and Greens were in the best shape they’d been in for quite a while and for the first time it seemed like anybody’s game. The NDP/Greens with McNair and May respectively spoke eloquently about the need for representive voting systems and Trudeau on national television during debate made it an election promise for the Liberal party he represented (Liberal here is a brand though the party is pretty generally pretty lower case liberal as well). When he got in despite the support of those other parties it never materialized.
Here in British Columbia trying to capitalize on the sentiments the Provincial government ran a lame horse of a referendum campaign where they brought forward three really complicated systems that largely dealt with how ridings were weighted by representation which was better than nothing but because it took two hours to explain how the three systems worked most people checked out of it and voted for first past the post to remain. It was like it was constructed by acedemics who had never spoken to a person before. They didn’t need a referendum. They could have just passed something, any of the three options and we would be better off than we were.
I have remained salty about this since 2017.
Understandably!
You guys should really think about changing your voting system.
Lmao – ooooohhhh why didn’t we think of that!
Just snap our fingers and change the system!
You can’t just snap your fingers, but you could try to get ranked choice voting approved locally, which would make it easier to get it state wide which would make it easier to get it federally.
My city just passed that if no candidate gets at least 50% they drop the lowest voted people and everyone votes again. It’s not perfect, but it’s progress!!
In many red states, republiQans are passing laws to specifically prevent this change.
We have to vote them out first, and that is unfortunately under the FPTP system. After that, we have to save the planet and restore women’s bodily autonomy. Then we have to kill the Slaver’s College. then we can get to ranked choice. It’s a full slate.
You guys should really think about changing your voting system.
Single Transferable Vote, Preference Vote, basically anything works better than FPTP.
This is something that could be fixed at a state level no less, since the states run the elections subject to a handful of federal requirements none of which mandate FPTP voting.
This is not a system where institutional changes have much chance of occurring, especially where “tradition” is involved.
Half of the voting population is against anything resembling reform or progress, and only “for” regressive draconian changes. The other half has such a broad difference of opinion on what should be addressed first that they waste their time squabbling about it even when they have control of the executive branch and both parts of the legislative branch. When they do make changes, they make so many compromises and concessions that the changes are effectively small.
Correction: trum claimed he would fix that issue. By basically eradicating Gaza, but still…
I haven’t seen a single person say they’ll vote for Trump because of the genocide in Gaza. I’m sure they exist, I just haven’t seen it yet…
It’s not about those voting for him, they’re a lost cause.
It’s the fact that if you don’t vote for Biden, based on the current options and possible outcomes available, you are saying that you’re okay with Trump beating him.
US elections basically come down to turnout of Democrat voters.
The GOP has baked in voting as a civic duty and party loyalty as core values, so GOP votes mostly change one casket at a time.
Dem voters are a lot more flighty, and a lot more willing to refuse to vote or vote third party if the Dem candidate isn’t everything they want. There are more Dem voters than GOP voters, but fewer of them actually vote in any given election.Which means that GOP turnout is pretty stable and Dem turnout is all over the place.
A big part of why Trump lost in 2020 is that Dem messaging was all about inspiring terror in their own voters that Trump might win again, so get your asses out and vote or else! Same as now, and it might hold as a tactic until there’s a GOP candidate they can’t successfully work the fear angle on, and then the GOP will win and if the US isn’t destroyed in the ensuing four years Dems will have a hard time winning again until they find a new tactic.
Sad how shortsighted we as a nation have become
Nailed it.
I’m not continuing to participate in this failed system brah!
Seems to be the best argument they can come up with… As if 4% voting third party would make a difference except to help elect a full on fascist
As if 4% voting third party would make a difference except to help elect a full on fascist
Aye, there’s the rub
That would be something Biden is risking.
Nah, I’d imagine he’s also voting Democrat.
Nice obvious troll my man but you gotta put in a little more effort.
It’s not a troll, Biden is the incumbent but he still needs to take the actions needed to turn out the vote. It’s not a given that he’s electable.
See parent comment of this thread.
I’m not even sure it’s nice? Wasn’t funny and really not even poignant. I give it 1/10.
*Because of one issue that Trump explicitly said he would do much much worse with
I’ll never fucking understand it. They claim to care, but he will be substantially worse, and also make their lives directly worse on top of it.
There is no “worse” than full on, reigns free, genocide. Biden isn’t just doing nothing he’s supplying the genocide. The only way it could be worse is if US troops were activated to help.
It’s a bullshit talking point to pretend Trump could do worse on this issue (especially since it is never accompanied with any specifics about how he’d be worse on this issue). Biden is full genocide support, you might not like hearing that and knowing your vote will serve as an endorsement for continued Democratic complicity in genocide, but that’s what it is and is exactly why people simply cannot support Biden without him taking action to reverse his course.
You might be willing to excuse it, many aren’t, especially those who have literal family members being killed by US bombs right now. There are no rhetorical gymnastics that make it ok.
It’s a bullshit talking point to pretend Trump could do worse on this issue (especially since it is never accompanied with any specifics about how he’d be worse on this issue).
Hahaha! Jesus fucking christ, what are you, twelve? Was the first illegitimate trump administration happening while you learned colors and letters? You have got to be fucking joking with this garbage. Nobody can give specifics on how he’d be worse! HAH! For fuck’s sake. If you’re not from America, ok, but otherwise - please. There have been many cogent arguments as to how he’d be worse - do you need help finding them? Are you actually, in good faith, asking? Because I doubt it. And if it’s even a question to you whether trump can manage a competent foreign relations situation, you’re either being disingenuous or comically ignorant.
If you were arguing in good faith you’d be able to at least comprehend why people find it difficult to put their name on a genocide.
The more hysterical you get, the more you just look like an out of touch fanatic who’s so jaded that you can’t even grasp why people would have a problem giving the Democrats permission to be a party that behaves like the GOP in the very worst way imaginable.
No amount of talking down or being condescending will get you what you want. Use that energy to pressure your representatives.
There is no “worse” than full on, reigns free, genocide. Biden isn’t just doing nothing he’s supplying the genocide. The only way it could be worse is if US troops were activated to help.
Even if that were true (it’s not) acting like that’s the only issue on the table is absurd. Trump will be worse not just when it comes to Palestine, but all around.
It’s the Bernie Bros all over again. No need to bother they’re almost as cultish as maga
It’s #walkaway all over again.
I get it. Nobody wants to actively vote for a guy supporting genocide. But they need to grow up and realize that if they can’t make a good choice, they need to make the better choice, no matter how much it sucks that we’re at this point.
Supporting genocide is not a matter of “growing up”.
Dems have reached the end of the “lesser of two evils” strategy. It turns out literal genocide is the point at which people no longer respond that rhetoric, weird huh?
So what’s your solution?
For Biden to stop supporting genocide. If you want him to win the election that’s the fastest and most direct solution. It’s not a difficult ask.
One supports it (probably because he can’t please everyone)
The other would gleefully assist in the genocide
Biden is already assisting it.
And “he can’t please everyone” is not a good excuse for it.
I think Biden would please a lot more people if he just didn’t pick a side. Nobody I talk to, no matter where on the political spectrum they land, likes him supporting Israel.
Then you’re in a political bubble.
I haven’t heard about this in YEARS but wasn’t there something about us having to support Israel to have a friend in the Middle East?
Also why haven’t I heard about that in years 🤔
(For the record, I’m pro-no-more-dead-kids, and anti-famine.)
I’m not sure if you mean on main stream news or not but I see that sentiment here daily
If you don’t want to actively vote for a guy supporting genocide, then exercise your right to not do that by picking a third party candidate that best aligns with your interests and vote for them. Disparaging the people whose votes you absolutely have to have isn’t going to persuade them to vote for the person you’re voting for. Just makes you look silly.
Constituents don’t have many cards they’re allowed to hold. So the ones we can, we will clutch with a death grip.
Some of us refuse to let anyone know who we vote for until the pen meets the paper. Because the President is supposed to work for the people, so we’ll make them work for it as long as we can.
That’s great.
I’m talking about the people specifically saying they will not vote for Biden.
Those are likely Russian trolls or those who drank the trolls’ piss-saturated Kool-aid, hun. You can’t expect them to have sound reasoning.
And? I’m saying I’m disturbed by the volume of them, hun.
I mean I can imagine him doing that, but wyere source?
The official version of the conversation between trump and Putin doesn’t include any mention of the spy list or anything sus.
Without looking into that because it doesn’t really solve the issue, there are people who claim the primary source for what was said, would be a daily caller journalist. If that claim is true and the implications are up to you to figure out, as it doesn’t really change anyway.
The request seems to be real while he didn’t technically asked for spies. Spies aren’t usually on the payroll as a spy either.
Trump himself didn’t had to provide putin with the list directly anyway as marolago isn’t fort Knox.
In short, a shit Tonne of what ifs and maybe, where a trump is an idiot that thought “Putin wants list of spies? I want list of spies” and stored it in a hotel, would be enough.
Plenty of articles on Trump his private meetings with Putin. A short one: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/us/politics/trump-putin-meetings.html
The CIA circumstantially complaining and warning their agents of an increase of dead informants: https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/575384-cia-admits-to-losing-dozens-of-informants-around-the-world-nyt/
Apart from leaking, Trump also erroneously declassified secret documents, leading to the disappearance (and likely deaths) of some informants. Best case was that the western agency was able to extract their informant in time, but that still means that there is 1 less informant. Here’s one case, but there were more: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/17/russian-sources-disappeared-after-trump-declassified-ex-spys-evidence-uk-court-told
Trump his public obeisances towards Putin are also clearly recognizable as such. Trump Putin meetings are not meetings of equals, but one is clearly there to do the bidding of the other.
Put 1, 2, 3 and 4 together and there are many who believe that it was Trump who purposefully gave top secret information to his master. Including basically all western spy agencies, who now no longer can trust the USA with secret information. Trump is a traitor and everyone knows it.
thx
Haha I love the reverse psychology
what?
My bad i misread. I though you said “I can’t believe that what your source”. (Which was great reverse psychology) The good thing with Lemmy is you have real people, the bad thing with Lemmy, you got real people.
and there are many who believe that it was Trump who purposefully gave top secret information to his master.
Being able to prove this last part beyond a reasonable doubt is the key and important part. Like the line at which you can start genuinely talking about charging him with treason.
The absolute devastation to peace in Western Europe if this fuckwad wins in November. WW3 incoming
The devastation of Western European culture doesn’t sound like a bad thing at all.
Twat
Come on.
Do you sign up to be first in line?
Maybe not FIRST but when it becomes cool to firebomb banks and oil infrastructure i’d probably be among the many.
Don’t be a twat. The russians are obliterating entire towns for literally no reason other than Putin wants more territory. They’ll rape and torture their way across the whole continent if they’re not stopped.
Western European culture isn’t perfect but it’s a lot better than blind obedience to the tzar. If you love Russia so much, fucking move there. Who knows maybe you can help take chasiv year and your tzar will reward you with plenty of babies to rape.
I didn’t say anything about their culture, it would persist or even strengthen with a war. Deterioration of peace is scary though
i guess we should obliterate the eastern europeans as well. They haven’t seen one in a while, i think they might be over due in terms of cultural evaporation by now.
Just in case anybody doesn’t know, and really just for the fun of saying it, the reason he’d help putin is that putin most likely has a recording of trump having sex with underage russian girls… also something about getting peed on as well.
Non-“presidential” material, in any case.
To give Trump a bit of credit, I cannot see his ego being willing to suck a dick as hard as he’s sucking the russian’s without there being an absolute need to stoop that low. But maybe he’s just a grade A POS instead of the second-rate hack he appears to be.
I don’t think the pee tape exists, and I think the dirt Putin has is much less juicy.
I think Trump is getting out of debt, and literally nothing else. He’s an easy man to buy. He’s pathetically simple and mercantile in his approach to diplomacy, for lack of a better word, and it doesn’t take a genius to figure out how to manipulate him.
Trump owes Russian Banks money, Putin is willing to make the payments if Trump is compliant, that’s all it takes for Trump to commit treason.
Is that any worse than stuff he’s actually done? I don’t see why he’d care about this particular instance of being a thunder cunt.
You’re assuming under age as in mid teens. I’m pretty sure we’re talking prepubescent.
mid teens would still be pedophillia though, so.
Yes but that’s not how the media refers to it. You’ll notice that the media often refers to “underage women” when referring to teenagers. But you can’t do that when the girls are still in primary school.
For the record, the rumor is that he watched prostitutes pee on the bed that Obama slept on when he visited.
Using prostitutes to get important people in compromising situations is a well worn KGB trick and obviously standard practice for Russia to put recording equipment anywhere they think they can get away with it.
So really the question is whether you think it’s plausible Trump would want to watch such a thing or at least be ok with staying in the room while it happened. If he was there, it was almost certainly done by prostitutes and almost certainly recorded.
Fuck Trump and fuck the CIA. The world would be better off if both completely stopped existing.
I recall back in the day that Dutch intelligence agencies hacked their way into cameras in the buildings of the cozy bear hackers that hacked the DNC. they shared their findings with the US and then Trump used that info publicly to try and kick the Democratic party. This in turn caused the hacks to be fixed, and the Dutch agency losing their access. There is some more detail about it that I don’t recall, but I do recall the director of the Dutch agency stating they would no longer share information like this with the US as they can’t be trusted with it.
Yeah I remember that story as well.
As Beau of the Fifth Column on YouTube says, “You have to try to commit treason in the US.”. Treason is one of the few crimes enumerated in the US Constitution because the King of England was charging people with treason for literally any reason.
I think that there’s been a lot of aid and comfort given to our enemies under Trump but hey shh shh shh he’s running for president again! Against the guy he lost the last election too! That would be election interference!
Why? Cash money! The Orange Turd and Traitor is a fucking Russian FSB agent. When he was yapping about his trade war with the EU, the German police raided the Deutsche Bank HQ in Frankfurt looking for documents tracing Russian money flowing through Cyprus. Guess who received a loan from Deutsche Bank? The Orange Turd and Traitor. Later, guess who STFU about a trade war with the EU? The Orange Turd and Traitor.
The loan from Justice Anthony Kennedy’s son? Yeah.
It’s insane to me that they’re not charging him with treason in the documents case. There are ties to Russian intelligence as well as sale of confidential submarine plans.
It’s strategic. Why set the bar any higher than it needs to be to put him away for life?
That’s a fair point, but only treason would exempt him from holding office again.
Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3:
“No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.”
Insurrection and rebellion, not treason.
Look up what the constitutionally enumerated definition of treason is, then re-read the second to last sentence of your quote. You have to try to commit treason in the US. This is a winner winner chicken dinner situation.
Put him behind bars, THEN charge him for treason. Make him show up to court in handcuffs and an orange jumper, to match his face.
Dude is gonna look like Palpatine when he can’t get bronzer anymore.
Oh how I would love to see a wobbly pack of Oatkeepers try to break him from jail. Need to stock up on snacks.
To set an example for the next treasonous, racist piece of shit that the GOP nominates.
And maybe as a warning for Clarence Thomas and company.
And to pave the way for charging Kushner and the rest of Trump’s nepotistic administration.
See, there are lots of reasons to throw the book at Trump.
I think the concern is inciting retaliatory violence.
I don’t think that should be a concern of a prosecuting authority. If people break the law, especially at the scale and severity that Trump did, they need to be prosecuted. If other people retaliate, then prosecute them accordingly. We didn’t stop prosecuting Jan 6 insurrectionists just because of inflammatory rhetoric, and we shouldn’t hold back here.
I agree. But if I was the prosecutor, I would be doing my best to make sure everything is rock solid. Even then, it might not be enough.
I really really want to believe people are over Trump, but somehow so many are hook, line and sinker.
I agree that the case needs to be airtight, and I agree that the most slam-dunk offenses should be prosecuted first. I was just taking issue with the “why bother prosecuting for treason when lesser offenses are enough to put him in jail for the rest of his life” logic
He still has 100s of millions supporters. That’s the part that scares me.
That can’t be a concern. The government can be fully able to prepare and handle any sort of MAGA uprising.
This is why they should not keep a NOC list
To be fair we were led to believe getting hands on the info would require Ethan Hunt skillz, Instead of how it is in the real world where you just pay a fat lazy greedy clown and he hands it to you.
