Exactly my first thought seeing the thumbnail
Probably get banned for this, but it’s worth it.
BREAKING NEWS: Republican voters still learning about the Trump Era Tax Reform 8 years later!
The moneyed class wet dream come true. 🤬🤬🤬
They used to push for a flat tax where everyone, billionaires and minimum wage workers alike, would pay the same rate. They did one better and now billionaires pay a lower rate than everyone else. Steve Forbes was an idiot. They managed to do it far better than he could have ever imagined when he ran for President in the 90’s. Fucking nepo babies…
Flat tax is an awful idea.
Say they make it 10%
When you make $30k a year, $3,000 has a much higer impact on your finances than someone who makes $3,000,000 and pays $300,000 in taxes. You keep $27,000, they keep $2,700,000. You lose a mortgage payment and a car payment. They have to buy a slightly smaller yacht.
On top of that, as already mentioned, their wealth comes from stocks and other non-wages income. Bezos famously only took $81,000 (I think?) in actual pay for many years, yet he’s one of the richest people on the planet. You think $8,100 in taxes is good enough for one of the richest people while you pay $3k out of your $30k?
Flat tax is a bad idea, and the only ones who want it are the wealthy and those who don’t understand that the wealthy could take whatever salary they want to pay as little tax as possible and just live off stocks, loans, which is how they already avoid paying taxes.
I agree that flat tax is unfair, but flat tax with no deductions would be better than current inverted scale where rich pay smaller percentage.
I don’t think you understand.
If flat tax would apply evenly to all sources, investment sales taxed at same rate as wages. No deductions. How would this not be fairer than the US current tax scheme?
You didn’t read what I said?
If a billionaire can take a salary of $80k at the hypothetical 10% tax and pay $8k tax while an IT professional making $200k has to pay $20k how is that fair? The billionaire takes money from capital gains (lower taxes) because they pay themselves in stock and funds, and/or uses loans (zero tax on loans- you know that, right?), puts his yacht under a shell company so no personal taxes on that, probably uses it for business trips so it’s use can be written off partially…and buys whatever the hell he/she wants. But pays less tax than the IT professional.
So you’re saying that’s just fine. That’s exactly how a flat tax works. That’s how rich people pay less than regular people.
No I do not think it’s fine. I did read what you said, but from your reply it’s obvious you didn’t read what I said.
I said if “apply evenly to all sources, investment sales taxed at same rate as wages” From your reply “billionaire takes money from capital gains (lower taxes)”. That’s not the same rate is it.
I said "No deductions."From your reply “so its use can be written off partially” That’s a deduction isn’t it.
The current system where rich pay a lower tax rate because they can take advantage of things like capital gains and deductions is not fair or equitable. A flat rate system that eliminated things like capital gains and deductions would not be fair, but it would be fairer because it keep the millionaire mfrom paying a lower rate than the poor (or the software engineer).
Graduated tax that eliminated things like capital gains and deductions would be fairer still. Also gift exemption, inheritance exemption and other carveouts that unduly favor the wealthy should at least be be adjusted if not outright eliminated.
Because a business use of a yacht (hypothetically) is not income. You get your yacht but no worries about it being taxed as income. You also completely skipped loans, loans are not income and therefore not taxable under your scheme, and portfolio loans are a huge part of how the wealthy get spending money. Now before you reiterate yet again you said all sources I want you to think a minute that these taxes are going to be applied to you, too. Your 401k. That’s investment. Your home loan. You want to tax that? How about your car and student loans. More taxes? Still sound right? Do you want to make carve outs for those things? That sounds suspiciously like writeoffs or “deductions”.
We could sit here all day and quibble over what is and isn’t income, but at the end of the day you’re going to end up with exceptions, or “deductions”, and if you’re going to say “well, nobody making under ‘x’ amount should be taxed on a 401k…” and now we’re right back where we started with a rich person making less than ‘x’.
Flat taxes are not going to work.
They are not fair.
You need a wealth tax and you need a tax that attaches itself to the vehicles used by the wealthy to get money that is under- or not taxed. Tax personal or portfolio loans over 100,000 not used for housing, medical care, or education. Stock options issued in lieu of or along with salary as compensation should be taxed as income when sold. Do not tax individual personal retirement accounts that deliver less than “x” income or payout to persons of retirement age. This is how you tax wealth and protect the normal persons. Not 10% of the $81k salary the billionaire gives himself.
Have a flat tax based on brackets.
5% for x income 10% for x income Top out at 30-40%
Problem solved
I think you forgot the /s or some people won’t get it. Also it should go back to topping out at 90%
A 30% flax tax is higher than the mythical 90%.
The 90% range had so many deductions only 1 person hit it and even then it’s only on the income that exceeds that limit.
A 30% flat tax with no deductions is much more brutal to income but it’s fair.
Ahhh you aren’t using the current definition of “flat tax”. Flat tax is a single rate across all incomes. It still includes deductions, exemptions, credits etc.
I don’t know the correct term for “no deductions tax”. No exceptions? Non adjustable?
Your bracket concept is how it works now.
Flat means no deductions and an equal pay. It can still be done against brackets and be a flat tax.
No brackets work with credits and deductions. Someone with 100k in income could pay zero in taxes. A flat tax makes them pay taxes by removing deductions.
Personally I’d rather see a consumption tax but that freaks most people out.
“A flat tax is a tax with a single rate on the taxable amount, after accounting for any deductions or exemptions from the tax base. It is not necessarily a fully proportional tax.” Wikipedia
TIL, thank you.
Tax the rich, the banks, and the churches. Then see if you still need anything from the normies.
Why would they? The rich, the banks, and the churches are the ones who get to choose who gets taxed.
What the MSM considers normal regular American I consider upperclass. What they consider poor I consider normal. What they consider homeless is actually the new poor.
Yeah, a whole lot of working folks are one missed paycheck from homelessness. I’m old enough to remember that it wasn’t always like this, if you were working you didn’t have nearly so much anxiety and exhaustion, you could afford to look after a kid or have the occasional holiday, maybe own a home. Not anymore. The rich are getting richer though.
I’ve watched some of my friends struggle with homelessness. They are amazing people with brilliant minds, but just got unlucky while working a dead end job. It’s fucking terrible.
Yeah, it’s really messed up. And getting worse. I’m just not sure how we change it without violence though. Voting doesn’t fucking help. And, like me, most of the people who are hurting don’t want violent change. Rightly, because like capitalism, revolution hurts a lot of people. But it feels like society is a balloon and the rich are squeezing it and wondering when it’ll pop. It’s hard to predict what’s gonna happen but based on the way things have been I’d say worse.
A general, mass strike would probably never happen. But it should. More strikes in general. I feel like there are still things to try before going full Joker
but they graciously pay salaries of so many people, we shouldn’t even tax them!
Fat orange and his repuglican crew got it done
Yeah, Trump was standing on the shoulders of giants like Regan, Bush, and Bush to get us into mess. Thanks Republicans!
Do not forget Bill Clinton, he played a huge role. Essentially fulfilling republican dreams of deregulation by joining hands with them. It’s when the Democratic party embraced corporate interests and neoliberalism. Clinton deregulated banking (see Glass-Steagall) which led to the financial crisis and banking/finance today.
Biden didn’t fix 40 years of Republican corruption in 3 years therefore he’s just as guilty, and I’m voting Republican!!! - Average American
moronvotercommenter wasn’t even mentioning time frames involving Biden, but way to play the
victim cardaverage democrat playbook
For the FIRST time? Yeah, no. How about ALL the time?
Did you see a flaw in the analysis? Not sure what you mean
This is something Warren Buffet has been complaining about for years. It’s not exactly a new development.
He’s talked about not paying his fair share. I don’t recall him ever saying “billionaires literally pay a lower effective tax rate”.
From 2012:
https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/01/warren-buffett-and-his-secretary-talk-taxes
"Buffett’s secretary since 1993, Debbie Bosanek, sat next to her boss just hours after being invited by the president to the State of the Union address, where the president made her the face of tax inequality in America.
Bosanek pays a tax rate of 35.8 percent of income, while Buffett pays a rate at 17.4 percent."
Idk, I’m not seeing anything there that he acknowledged he paid a lower rate than the average American. He was just contrasting himself with one person. He didn’t say “rich people have a lower effective tax rate than everyone else”. He just says “I have a lower tax rate than this one other person”.
It means that methodologically collected data is less accurate than popular sentiment.
I think torches, and pitchforks. We should go old school.
I wish people would say this and mean it. I’m waiting. I think we should actually eat one billionaire to make a point. I’m vegetarian but I’ll take a bite to prove my commitment.
It’s kind of a naive idea though. I used to think it was possible. They will literally just kill us or actively make us poor/homeless/antisocial and make some sort of loophole to make it legal and justified. I wish I didn’t think it was game over for the nation but I think it’s actually a lost cause. And any time I try to talk to someone in hopes they can influence me otherwise they just prove my point and make me want to give up more. It’s like they create a division on purpose, or the benefit of the doubt is that they are too naive or emotional to understand what they are actually doing which is creating more of the people they claim to oppose.
It’s like a natural force that keeps war in constant motion. Nobody is allowed to just “be”. Doesn’t matter if they contribute to society or not. People are disposable to groups and nations. It’s an industry. Probably the one that maintains the backbone or foundation of each group/nation/force.
This is exactly what they want you to think. But the republican party is almost at the point where they can’t win a national election even WITH all thier gerrymandering and misinformation. 2024 may be the last election where they even stand a chance.
The ultra-rich want you to believe that it’s hopeless, but it is far from it. Their only options now are to create a dictatorship or give up political power to the left, who (however flawed) actually represent the people.
When I watched the movie “V for Vendetta” as a kid, I thought it was inspiring and dramatic.
Now I see it as ridiculous. At the end, when the protesters are facing the armed soldiers? And they just stand down? Yeah, that would not happen. There would be a bunch of bullet-riddled corpses in masks. And then the next day, the executions would begin.
It’s the principle of the matter. I’m not a cannibal, but gods damn it. I’d take a fucking slice of Musk, Bezos, or Zuckerberg bacon just out of spite. Also, redistribute their wealth for good measure.
I’m not a fan of developing neurological disorders, but I would feed Musk to some literal pigs.
Okay, but who do you think would taste the worst?
Musk, for sure. He’d probably have a sweaty smell to him. Something reminiscent of unwashed animals, shame and sadness.
Not even our closest cousins would tolerate a member that hoarded bananas so. No, it would be fangs, and ripping and all sorts of face-eating, and a whole bunch of other stuff we should be taking inspiration from.
Great article. Nice to see an economist doing such important work. I don’t really understand finances. I snipped the parts of the article that helped me understand the finding/headling. There’s a great chart in the article of taxation differences since the 1960s too - staggering! Plutocracy in action!
Published in The New York Times with the headline “It’s Time to Tax the Billionaires,” Zucman’s analysis notes that billionaires pay so little in taxes relative to their vast fortunes because they “live off their wealth”—mostly in the form of stock holdings—rather than wages and salaries.
Stock gains aren’t currently taxed in the U.S. until the underlying asset is sold, leaving billionaires like Amazon founder Jeff Bezos and Tesla CEO Elon Musk—a pair frequently competing to be the single richest man on the planet—with very little taxable income.
“But they can still make eye-popping purchases by borrowing against their assets,” Zucman noted. “Mr. Musk, for example, used his shares in Tesla as collateral to rustle up around $13 billion in tax-free loans to put toward his acquisition of Twitter.”
We can tax registered securities. Stock holdings. We can take 5% or 50% of all outstanding shares, each and every year, and transfer them to IRS liquidators to be resold in small lots over time. We can exempt the first $10 million held by a natural person, and establish a progressive tax schedule that causes the tax rate to exceed average gains when holding more than $100 million.
Who exactly do you mean by “we”? Are you in some kind of legislative position?
You are familiar with the concept of democracy, are you not?
When is the vote for this tax policy of yours?
First Tuesday after the first Monday in November.
Really? That’s the same day as the presidential election. Where do I go for this other vote?
It’s just down the street. You’re gonna take a left. You’re gonna see a cliff. You’re gonna jump off…
Eat the riches!
Damn, beat me to the punch!
Sometimes I think we shouldn’t have photoshop.
Then I drink more 🖖🏻
I…I mean the original is amazing…one of the best moments in television history…
But you went and made it better somehow.
One of the things I do love about Lemmy is that any post anywhere can suddenly turn into a Star Trek shitposting thread
NOONE EXPECTS THE STARFLEET INQUISITION
(one of you nerds make that into a gif)
Yeah, I saw that, but forgot to bookmark it
(before I get flamed… I like both series for what they are. But, uh… yeah. Spock wants his Lightsaber, too.)
Sisko is the best captain.
Hands down. He tko’d Q… and lived to tell about it.
I woke my dog up laughing at this
Taxing billionaires will just get rolled back, the problem is Capitalism itself.
Collectivize the Means of Production.
