- cross-posted to:
- privacyguides@lemmy.one
- privacy@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- privacyguides@lemmy.one
- privacy@lemmy.ml
Bitwarden Authenticator is a standalone app that is available for everyone, even non-Bitwarden customers.
In its current release, Bitwarden Authenticator generates time-based one-time passwords (TOTP) for users who want to add an extra layer of 2FA security to their logins.
There is a comprehensive roadmap planned with additional functionality.
Available for iOS and Android
Not sure why i am paying for this in the Bitwarden app if the same function is offered for free. Not like it’s bad, as its only like a dollar every month, but why?
It’s also free in the Bitwarden app if you self-host with Vaultwarden. It’s only a paid feature if you’re using their hosting, and seemingly only so they can dangle it as a “premium” benefit.
Of which I pay for, I have no issue paying Bitwarden for good work. And I use Bitwarden on-site myself.
For 10€ a year I will pay for a feature I don’t even use voluntarily.
Just because the app is great and works really well with multi accounts.Exactly. I don’t pay for Bitwarden because I need all of its features. I pay because I want to support them and the job that they are doing. The extra features are just a side-effect of that.
Jesus fuck. How many more authentication apps do we need that all do the same thing?
At work I need at least 4-5 different authentication apps because every customer has something different.
We don’t need another.
You only need one app, as long as the totp is implemented in a standardized way.
Microsoft products would like a chat…
They’re probably using HOTP or something else, not TOTP. TOTP is literally just the key + any clock. Or maybe it’s the “click button to authenticate” and not the “enter code to authenticate,” which might not be HOTP or TOTP, but something else entirely (e.g. Steam’s system is neither AFAIK).
If it’s TOTP, you just need to get the key and can use any authenticator app.
They did. DUO was born.
I use my Microsoft account with a standard OTP app, you don’t need their own app.
Wait until your workplace requires you to only use MS Authenticator push notifications 😭 and HOTP occasionally…
I did too until it kept rejecting my tokens frequently - changing to M$ Authenticator “solved” it.
They must now require HOTP or something now. TOTP doesn’t care what machine it’s on, whereas HOTP does (well, you could spoof it if you really wanted).
Random number generator 2fa?
4-5 TOTP apps? So far, when, e.g. Microsoft or Google have insisted use of their own Authenticator app is required, it’s worked fine for me using Ente Auth or similar just by entering the code / QR.
Yup, most 2FA is just TOTP, which is a pretty simple, open standard and is hardware independent. All you need is a key (the QR code or the numbers) and access to a reliable time source and you can make a TOTP app on anything.
I use Aegis on my phone and Authenticator on Linux (some GTK app), and they both produce identical codes for the same key.
OK, so one TOTP app more. What’s this one doing better than all the others like 2FAS?
Yeah, they’re are a few open source TOTP apps that seem pretty interchangeable. I use Authenticator Pro because it has a Wear OS integration that is handy if you have a smart watch.
one TOTP app more
You say this as a bad thing.
Not at all, I’m just wondering if this particular one is better than any of the others.
For now: Nothing. Pretty bare metal atm.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Bitwarden client itself already does this. I store several of my TOTP’s in my self hosted Vaultwarden/Bitwarden install.
You’re right, it does. This is a head-scratcher.
I guess they already had the TOTP code written, so creating a standalone app was trivial, but what’s the point?
TOTP in the Bitwarden Vault is a paid feature. The standalone app is free, and doesn’t even require a Bitwarden account.
This allows free tier users a way to use TOTP without upgrading, and without needing to trust Google Authenticator or something else.
thd totp in the default application is paid and that isn’t
TOTP code is like 5 lines. The hardest part is writing the seed to disk.
Because you can enable totp on your Bitwarden account and it would be dumb to store the password and totp for your biwarden vault in your vault?
Also it can act as a stepping stone for non Bitwarden customers, before getting their own vault.
Security-wise it’s not a good idea to keep passwords and 2FA codes in the same client as it then becomes a single point of failure. A standalone authenticator app resolves that as long as it’s not unlocked with the same master password. A standalone app also opens a venue for non-BW customers to get on their platform.
It’s not a good idea to keep both on the same device, but i wouldn’t use it at all if it was a struggle
Would it count if the application is the same but all the TOTP is handles by a different database with a different passphrase?
And where would you store your Bitwarden login TOTP if you used their service instead of self hosting?
And what happens if your Bitwarden account gets compromised? Now you’ve lost both factors at the same time.
No, I’ll keep my 2FA separate from my password manager, thank you very much.
Good luck getting your vault compromised.
Unless you have a weak password or the vault isn’t encrypted (which it is, AES256 iirc and you might be able to change that on a self hosted version), I don’t see that happening.
Most password manager hacks don’t attack the encryption or password themselves (my password is very long), they find/create a side channel. For example:
- keylogger attack to grab password manager password
- social engineering to reset a password
- attack the server to intercept passwords
Every secure system can be defeated, but it’s a lot less likely that two secure systems will be defeated at the same time. So I keep my passwords and second factors separate. It’s unlikely that either will be compromised, and incredibly unlikely that both will be compromised at the same time.
To those that are confused about this:
Bitwarden does indeed handle TOTP directly in the password manager, but only on paid accounts and only logged in.
This is a completely offline app, separate from your existing Bitwarden account, that is entirely free.
It might serve as an alternative to e.g Aegis to some.
Not switchin’ from Aegis. No sir’ee.
I use the TOPT features and i dont have a paid account
Do you self-host? I think that’s another way to get the TOTP features w/o a paid account.
I haven’t been entirely happy with Bitwarden for other reasons. You can’t self host and share with one other person without paying them $40/year. Their advertising is deceptive, because they say you can do both for free. But that one or the other, not both.
You also can’t easily share individual passkeys outside of the app. If you want to grab a passkey, you have to export your entire vault.*
It’s basically annoyance-ware.
* note that sharing passkeys is not best practice, but there are use cases.
Have you heard if VaultWarden?
As others have said vaultwarden is the solution here. It is free, you can manage multiple vaults, totp is free. All the platform bit warden apps & plugins work with it. Supposedly it is leaner and easier to set up. Don’t know for sure because it is all I have used.
For shared passwords, I have a family vault where I put my streaming pws and such and everyone has access without having to share my personal vault.
I don’t think I realized that was a limitation because I’ve been using the Vaultwarden fork. https://github.com/dani-garcia/vaultwarden
At this moment Aegis is far superior to bitwarden auth. But it looks promising.
I really like the ability to “sideload” the icons for the codes and automatic encrypted backups to cloud storages.Is there a good reason I don’t know about to prefer this over Aegis?
I used to use Aegis, but after setting up my own vaultwarden, I use the normal bitwarden app/plugin on all my systems for passwords and TOTP.
The advantages are that I don’t need my phone to login, the keys are synced and backuped in the encrypted vaultwarden database, which I can then handle with normal server backup tools. It still works offline, because bitwarden app caches the password.
This is IMO much more convenient and secure (in a way that loosing access to a device doesn’t shut you out, and you don’t need to trust third parties) then most other solutions.
I don’t think it caches the password. Rather a decryption key is derived from your password and is used to unlock the encrypted blob.
What I meant is that is caches the password database for offline use.
Even if I hosted my own BitWarden vault, I wouldn’t put my passwords and 2 factor tokens in the same place because it’s eliminating the benefits that 2 factor provides if someone somehow manages to get into my vault.
2 factor came into our life because people were using same passwords everywhere. With unique passwords, which are easy with password managers, it’s rarely needed.
That may have been part of the reason, but the theory behind MFA is that there are 3 primary ways to authenticate who you are: what you know (password), what you have (secure one time password generator or hardware token), and what you are (biometrics). Password managers and digital one time password generators have kind of blurred the lines between passwords and one time passwords, but you’re raising your risk a bit if you put them in the same place.
Reading these comments, it feels like Aegis became the standard without me noticing.
Just on Lemmy
interesting. what makes it special? i’m assuming it’s just like any other TOTP client?
Reading these comments I feel like I’m completely out of the loop because I’ve never even heard of Aegis
same
It doesn’t get a whole lot of attention but it’s the most mature open source authenticator app and one of the first ones you would find in fdroid. With that said, there’s nothing really standout about it or its features, it just works.
No, they’re both ostensibly open source and standalone. I’m an avid Bitwarden Free user, but Aegis has been my go-to for a long time.
If it’s a standalone completely offline app, like Aegis, I’m at a loss to what they could offer that is any different than what Aegis already offers.
If you look at the roadmap they have in the blogpost, they are apparently planning tighter integration with the existing bitwarden suite
…but wouldn’t that undermine the fact that it’s standalone and offline?
I don’t see why it would if it’s optional
Sand the fact that it’s a 2fa. A thicker integration with bitwarden would make it like a 1.5fa
The idea is that it can then work both says, like https://ente.io/auth does
2FA push is on the roadmap. Does aegis have that? Or am I just too dense to realise it does?
I mean, Aegis is 2FA? That’s literally all it is? It generates One Time Pad codes for various sites and apps that support authentication apps.
So, I’m not sure what you mean?
I’m not positive but I’m assuming they’re referring to a kind of MFA where the authenticating service pushes to the client you possess rather than relying on a temporal cryptographic key. I’ve got a few services which work that way
That’s indeed what I meant. Similar to how OKTA, battle.net, or the Microsoft authenticator works( in corporate environments).
You receive a push notification which asks if you’re trying to log in and approve it, followed by a fingerprint or a pin code to confirm, rather than having to type in the code generated by your app
It might serve as an alternative to e.g Aegis to some.
Does it have any killer features in favor of using the free app of an for-profit company instead of an established FOSS app?
Bitwarden apps have been open source since the beginning, mobile + backend + web
with full Internet access (As shown in Aurora Store)
Thanks but I pass, I’d rather use Aegis that doesn’t need internet connection at all.
How does 2FA work without an internet connection?
I’m not putting my totp with my password, same as I’m not putting my password with my email (proton)
Exactly, from a security perspective, it’s a bad idea to put 2 factor tokens together with your passwords. You effectively eliminate the security benefit that 2 factor provides if you do because if people get into your password manager, they have everything they need to access your accounts. The only people it “helps” having it all in one app are people who don’t understand the purpose of 2 factor and just see it as an inconvenience when services force it on them. Even though I use BitWarden for passwords, I don’t think that I’ll be changing from Aegis to BitWarden’s stand-alone authenticator because Aegis is doing its job nicely.
That’s also part of why I’m against the new passkeys. I think passkeys could replace either passwords or tokens, but not both.
It’s a separate app with no sync to Bitwarden accounts.
Still, I bet they share a lot of the same backend and personell.
And seemingly reading beyond the headline is also not your thing.
This is a separate app unconnected to your bitwarden account…
I personally have no use for this since I use Aegis and sync it with my synology drive
Glad these were answered:
Isn’t this the same as storing TOTP authentication codes in Bitwarden Password Manager?
Integrated TOTP authentication is a premium feature in Bitwarden Password Manager. Bitwarden Authenticator is a standalone mobile app that generates TOTP codes for any online service that supports them. Bitwarden Authenticator can be used without a Bitwarden account.
Should I use both? When should I use the integrated authentication feature? When should I use Bitwarden Authenticator?
Integrated authentication in Bitwarden Password Manager offers a convenient way for users to add 2FA to their online accounts. This popular feature will remain available across paid plans.
Bitwarden Authenticator can be used to store your verification codes to access your Bitwarden account, as well as other online applications you use.
They can be used together, or separately, depending on your security preferences.
Does this save to my cloud account with them or is it only local? I got screwed over by Aegis (my fault) when I got a new phone and forgot to back up Aegis and lost a lot of my logins. Some of them I can’t get unless I call the company and verify it’s me 🤦🏽♂️
Yubikey and yubico authenticator is king. Just need multiple keys. Stick it in a PC or tap it on your phones nfc… bam totp code pulls up.
Aegis does automatic backups. I guess you didn’t turn it on?
Guess I didn’t. I hate me even more now
The penguin is dead 😂
😂 I guess it is. Damit
I spelled your username wrong. I thought the q was a g. 😂
Do backups kids. :)
I actually keep an authenticator app on my desktop, so I always have two places for everything. Aegis on my phone and “Authenticator” on my Linux desktop.
Then how do you secure the backup without 2FA?
Or is it 2FA all the way down?
Aegis encrypts it with a password, then you copy it somewhere. It’s just a set of keys and you can have as many copies as you want (I have three, one phone and two desktops).
Aegis doesn’t run on your desktop using the same key, it’s just a key stored there, right?
You could store it on an external drive. You can encrypt it with VeraCrypt as well.
Wait, I’m a second child, am I a backup kid?
How do I do the backup for Aegis? I looked at it and it’s set up but then at the bottom it says no backups have been made 🤔
Settings > Import/Export > Export
This dumps it to a file, then it’s on you to copy it somewhere else.
Or
Settings > Backups
I think this one is automated, but I personally don’t use it, I just back it up manually when I add something new. I keep a completely functional 2FA app on my desktop, so I always have a backup in a pinch.
Currently use Raivo on iOS. If this is offline only and has a way to export I may change.
Why not just use KeePassXC? It’s completely free amd works great.
Syncing doesn’t work well for me. Bw did a much better job.
True, it is a hassle sometimes… Especially on new devices.
Assuming you’re asking about the password manager?
Most important for me is that with Bitwarden I can share passwords with someone else.
KeePassXC can do this as well. I had no idea until I saw a post on here where someone mentioned it. Here’s the documentation.
Nice! I currently have a couple of services on MS Authenticator that I can migrate over.
What makes you switch to this one rather than staying on MS?
MS not trustworthy
Honestly? This.
The less I have to rely on Microsoft or googie for anything, the better.
Microsoft’s Authenticator app is AWFUL. Just one example - there is a setting to backup to iCloud, but when you try to enable it, it demands you add a secondary (personal) Microsoft account.
Just like in the password manager, they ignored HOTP. Oh well.
Could you tell me more ?
HOTP is an HMAC-based OTP, whereas TOTP is a time-based OTP. Basically, this is how each works:
- HOTP - based on a key + a counter, which increments with each code generated
- TOTP - based on a key + time, so you get a new key every N seconds
TOTP is quite common and honestly is all I use, whereas HOTP may be more common in certain enterprises. Main criticisms:
- HOTP - longer time window for a key to be valid for the entire time between logins (i.e. potentially easier to brute force)
- TOTP - less user-friendly due to the time window; also, you just need a clock, you don’t need to know the counter value (if someone gets the key, they can generate keys whenever)
Gotcha, thank you very much.