I wonder if Tiktok will just make a seperate company that would comply before the 2025 ban comes to effect…
Or they will just exit the US market, interesting stuff.
I still think Glenn Greenwald views on this topic hold true.
“ByteDance doesn’t have any plans to sell TikTok,” the company posted on its official account on Toutiao, a social media platform it owns.
The sell-or-ban measure was signed into law by US President Joe Biden on Wednesday.
“We are confident and we will keep fighting for your rights in the courts,” said TikTok boss Shou Zi Chew in a video posted on the platform this week.
“The facts, and the Constitution, are on our side… rest assured, we aren’t going anywhere.”
The Chinese government has also dismissed such concerns as paranoia and has warned that a TikTok ban would “inevitably come back to bite the US”.
The Chinese government has also dismissed such concerns as paranoia and has warned that a TikTok ban would “inevitably come back to bite the US”.
If instead of getting anything they are opting to get $0, that actually confirms the “paranoia”.
The fact that the two countries that are most accused of spreading disinformation (including using Western’s own social media) not only provide their own alternatives, but also bans Western social media shows that West wasn’t paranoid enough.
The Chinese government has also dismissed such concerns as paranoia and has warned that a TikTok ban would “inevitably come back to bite the US”.
The fundamental ethos of the US and its propaganda of why it’s the greatest country on the planet is the first amendment and the current bunch are absolutely destroying that illusion in plain sight of younger generations.
They’re sending billions for wars and to Israel supporting and assisting them in genocide yet are saying to the ones they expect to pay for it that there’s no money for healthcare, infrastructure, education, welfare, raising minimum wage, etc, etc, et al, and then still demanding they should receive their votes “because the other guys much worse”.
I see a lot of younger people saying that both are shit, that the system is rigged and they ain’t playing their game anymore. That is tantamount to revolution.
Funny how you concerned citizens always seem to mention Israel without also mentioning supporting Ukraine. Almost like it’s not on your talking points list.
If you don’t see an issue with a hostile nation state directly controlling something that is consumed by so many Americans, you’re not looking at it properly.
This is what you liberals would call “whataboutism”?
Also because Ukraine is a nazi state. It has nothing to do with my “talking points” just that Ideologicaly I am opposed to The Ukraine, so I do not want support being sent to them.
Ah, so you’d be perfectly ok with Russia just expanding in Europe and invading the Baltics and Moldova? Oh, you’re a .ml user. Your answer is obviously yes.
Don’t stumble down that slope jackass
Who said anything about the baltics ot moldova?
Ukraine was doing a genocide and violated 2 treaties Russia granted aid and enforced the treaties, and then the areas voted to join russia
If you want to talk about the baltics we can, or Transistria, not Moldova, we can, but that wasn’t the topic of discussion
The last line sounds like a threat from a country that has had State sponsored hackers take over a great deal of the US infrastructure.
Imagine WW3 kicking off from TikTok. Not even a cool battle or anything, just massive misinformation campaigns to incite violence and false flag attacks
That’s literally already happening
There’s literally no reason to retaliate using state actors for this. It won’t fix the economics, it won’t fix the power balance.
The retaliation is when the US sets precedent in international economic relations and China uses it to cut off American tech companies from the Chinese market which is a massive revenue source for them. If China announced anything like that, it would kill the tech stocks future projections because all that growth that US tech was banking on would disappear.
The reason regulation is required for this is because private companies, being purely proft-driven, won’t. It’s a state matter.
I have no idea what you’re responding to
US tech companies betting on China to sustain their growth are foolish. China doesn’t need an excuse to favor its internal tech companies over external ones. It already does favor its own tech companies, and its own industries across any sector in which it can compete. China has already crippled US tech company growth within their borders. Any “retaliation” here is just spin, they are doing it anyway.
Yeah, not too sure why you would forcefully see it as a threat…
If you already see it and think of a country as an enemy (boogeyman) than anything people from that country or gov’t says would look like a threat or to be a scary statements…
At least that is how I see it…
I hope we shall continue to analyze our own way of thinking and talking about such topics!
If we could have it banned in Europe or just Germany I would be happy for my people.
Just don’t use it if you don’t like it.
I dislike it. But no. Don’t ve authorjtarian like China. Bann it on phones of those with security clearances, but that’s all.
Banning a foreign propaganda platform is not authoritarian, it’s a necessary step to protect democracy from being negatively influenced, manipulated and controlled by hostile, authoritarian actors like the CCP.
Where do we start and where do we stop with that kind of stuff?
If we ban TikTok we also would need to ban a lot of Social media platforms from the US for the same reason.
Actually, no. That’s not how this works and it’s not the reason behind the TikTok ban. TikTok is being banned because it’s directly controlled by the Chinese government, a foreign adversary that has vested interest in controlling and manipulating the American public through propaganda.
Then force them to add a disclaimer of that whilst signing up. That simple.
Oh then please mark and ban American propaganda, too.
Ok boomer
Since it hasn’t been mentioned yet; the real reason TikTok is being banned.
You have got to be kidding. Did you really just link the canary? The same canary that got banned from Twitter for making antisemitic remarks.
They also failed dozens of fact checks.
I did. Because the leaked phone call is real.
And irrelevant. You are grasping at straws trying to connect all the dots in your conspiracy theories.
That’s incredibly damning.
I enjoy your YouTube channel. You read Blackshirts and Reds to me.
Nice, thx! I’ve got 2 more books recorded recently, just gotta do the work of tagging and uploading them (should be ~week or so).
- Zak Cope - The wealth of (Some) nations.
- Domenico Losurdo - Nonviolence - A history beyond the myth.
Is there anything factually incorrect in the article?
They also failed dozens of fact checks.
Lol.
The ban on tiktok was going through before palestine attacked Israel. This article is just pure speculation and conspiracy theories.
The Canary has faced criticism for claiming that Israel is an apartheid state for its occupation of the West Bank. According to the Jewish Chronicle, Kerry-Anne Mendoza, the editor-in-chief, had her Twitter account suspended when she compared Jewish Labour Supporters with South Africa’s Apartheid “Imagine if during a day of international solidarity with the oppressed of Apartheid South Africa the Labour leadership opted instead to spend the day with white supremacists. That’s what Keir Starmer and Angela Rayner are doing today.”
What great journalists.
fact checks
Opinion disregarded.
This is the same conclusion Second Thought came to a while back in one of his youtube videos. While I don’t disagree with the conclusion, I also wouldn’t say it’s mutually exclusive to reasoning promoted by the mainstream media of "foreign influence. " What’s really wild is the idea that the ban is also being pushed by “foreign influence.”
Plausible deniability, 2 birds with 1 stone. There are hundreds of companies with foreign investors and influence. TikTok has tried to work with investigators and even spent $1.5 billion on a server framework for Project Texas. If TikTok was a crappy app and wasn’t the primary source of news for young adults, the government wouldn’t care.
The concept that “foreign influence” can destabilize the system means the system itself is not transparent and fair enough.
It means local influence does not work in public interest, and the problem is not abroad, it’s in your government.
Sure. Ignoring that this started in 2020 during Trump’s presidency.
Yes. This has been ongoing since TikTok acquired musical.ly. The CFIUS didn’t care as much until it became popular. TikTok has tried to comply, so why isn’t the CFIUS and there considerations being heeded?
And back then the Republicans were the party screaming about banning TikTok.
Now that israel is involved this became a lot less partisan very quickly.
I vote Democrat. I and everyone I’m aware of who wasn’t already addicted to TikTok supported banning it.
Maybe if your arguments contained an iota of good faith, they’d be taken seriously
Can you explain why we don’t ban the other social media platforms?
This move against TikTok predates the Hamas attacks and Israel’s military action. It’s insane that TikTok’s ban is because teens are more likely to be pro-palestine.
But but but… the American government HATES having a light shined on it.
I feel like this ban WILL start a monopoly. Since Facebook does the same amount or more data mining than TikTok, Facebook will have to be banned alongside Instagram, making YouTube Shorts a monopoly, as there really isn’t any other alternatives that are relevant.
They don’t care about monopoly. They care about evil China. It doesn’t seem to be an issue to strenghten evil Meta and Alphabet.
This isn’t about privacy or Meta and Google would be slapped too, this is just about the newest boogeyman for americans.
Seriously this smacks of McCarthy’s grocery list in the House Unamerican Activities Committee.
If there is evidence then they need to show us. We’ve learned some hard lessons about not trusting our government with this stuff.
They already held hearings on this at Congress last year, plenty of evidence was presented during those hearings. They basically forced the CEO to admit that the CCP has control over TikTok on the record. It’s on Youtube
Where is it then? Where is the evidence? Can you link to it? Is there a CSPAN broadcast of it or some talking head making shit up?
I would be very surprised if there was evidence because the newspapers haven’t turned up any and they aren’t about to just let it sit on YouTube.
Here’s the full hearing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1xEuK0Fxu8
There are also many articles across tech sites on the internet that you can find evidence of how the TikTok app is a data mining monster. If you haven’t read any about it yet, it’s probably just because you don’t want to hear it. It’s certainly not because the evidence is not out there, as there is a shitload of it.
Oh wow. All you could find is the entire 5 hour hearing? You don’t have any time marks? Articles referencing it? Are you seriously just hoping I’ll give up because you threw 5 hours of raw footage at me?
If there’s so many articles then link them. If they proved something in that 5 hours then give me the time stamp. You don’t get to make assertions that destroy people’s jobs and rights to speech without actually citing something.
Oh wow, I provided literally what I said I would provide, and all you can do is complain like a brat? Go find your own shit, I have already wasted enough time attempting to help you.
Long story short, there’s plenty of evidence out there and you will never look for it. Anything that I send as a reply will not be good enough, because you already have chosen what you want to believe about it.
To all the trolls saying TikTok shouldn’t be banned because free speech
Another comment I recently saw here on Lemmy put this really well:
Foreign owned, FARA-unregistered influence operations have never been a facet of “free speech” in the USA.
i don’t use tik tok and think this is all hilarious. watching you all fight over it is even funnier.
I don’t protest so watching the government arrest protestors is hilarious. No way this will ever blow back on me!
this has nothing to do with tik tok
Nothing gets by you 🤣
no. it doesn’t
🤣
Here’s Bernie Sanders from a year ago talking about how a handful of companies control the news people see, read, and hear. TL:DR - He makes the argument that it’s not fake news, that journalists are usually hard-working and honest. He says the problem is the limitation of allowed discussion - what topics make it to the consumer. He says for instance that he’s never asked about wealth and income inequality.
I believe TikTok is being banned because as it stands now it brings topics outside the limits of allowed discussion to a lot of eyes in ways US government/companies haven’t proven able to control. If the issues justifying a potential ban were truly data security or mental health as some argue (not without merit mind you), then the legislation to address those issues would look a lot different and include companies like Meta, Google, Instagram, etc. Those are valid concerns but the new measure is clearly not designed around them.
Finally, we’ve seen how Trump can tie up the courts for months on end even after all his self-snitching. Thus I very much doubt we’ll see any actual action in the 9 months + 3 months grace period laid out for the resolution of the TikTok matter. There are too many constitutional and business law challenges in my (admittedly layman’s) reading of expert opinion.
He is wrong though. When the war machine gets going we 100% have fake news. And the Journalists do not matter just look at New York Times massive Zionist propaganda takeover.
Anyone who has spent any amount of time on TikTok knows this is true. The narrative is beyond their control there, lots of eyes see. That terrifies them.
That is some top level propaganda. Mixing facts with half truths and fiction. Nice.
I believe TikTok is being banned because as it stands now it brings topics outside the limits of allowed discussion to a lot of eyes in ways US government/companies haven’t proven able to control
I mean, if this were true, that would mean you wouldn’t be able to find similar content on Western platforms. Are you really saying similar content isn’t readily available on YouTube? If so, what content?
Western SM is already in the pocket of the state and any content that goes against their values is suppressed.
Pro-Palestinian content on Tiktok can easily get traction and receive over hundreds of thousands, if not millions of views.
Considering that younger people are not watching regular media news, channels like fox just do not have comparative reach and they aren’t buying into the zionist propaganda like previous generations.
There are a lot of content creators who are articulate, succinct and organisation has come out of it. People have created sites & apps that list all corporations and products to boycott because of their support for Israel and it’s had an impact.
Sure, TTs algorithm can easily push you down unpleasant rabbit holes but that’s the nature of algorithms, not just specific to TT.
So there might be similar content on western SM but it’s being held down and isn’t showing on people feed ‘organically’.
I just did a brief search on YouTube and found pro-Palestinian content posted over the past week with hundreds of thousands of views too. I’m not arguing about the quality of the platforms, I’m saying this has more to do with geopolitical corporate hegemony (aka money) than with any specific content, as evidenced by the fact that this has been on the table since well before the Oct 7 attacks
The difference is that on Youtube you have look for it, and the algorithm will be sure to offer you plenty of pro-Israel content in response.
I just randomly selected this Channel 4 (3.8 million subscribers) video with 370K views on YouTube: Israeli soldier speaks out on war in Gaza. The next video it played was In Gaza now, it’s worse than ethnic cleansing from Al Jazeera. Then it gave me another Al Jazeera video, Norman Finkelstein on Gaza: The US could have stopped Israel on day one. From where are you driving your accusation that YouTube is delivering you any more pro-Israel content than TikTok?
what do you mean you “randomly selected” it?
Just one of the first 20 hits when I searched for “Palestine.” I have to admit I’m struggling to find any pro-Israel content among those search results. Searching for “Israel” gives a more mixed bag, but still plenty of pro-Palestinian content mixed in
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Israeli soldier speaks out on war in Gaza
In Gaza now, it’s worse than ethnic cleansing
Norman Finkelstein on Gaza: The US could have stopped Israel on day one
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
For one the YouTube algorithm is absolute dog shit compared to TT, which is literally the gold standard at this point.
If you haven’t tried, you’re seriously missing out. It’s legit incredible how good it is. I hardly use it because I prefer long-form content (and don’t honestly have much time) but I absolutely can respect what they created
Fuck all the algorithms, I don’t need any of that bullshit.
K… you alright? lol. What’s with the aggression 😂
Can you show us on the doll where the algorithm touched you?
Nice username, btw 👍🏽
That’s a solid criticism and I upvoted. I hadn’t thought about YouTube. Anecdotally I’ve had factual comments about how many kids are killed, what Israeli politicians say, etc. auto-moderated into oblivion on YouTube. But at the same time I get a lot of my criticisms from YouTube (basically never been on TikTok) so it holds water. I also get a lot of info from other sources, but I can’t think of something specific I’d get from them that I could never find on YouTube.
In my defense, I’m basing my opinion on why TikTok is particularly targeted on interviews like this one with Ted Cruz. He talks about how TikTok is specifically designed to push messages that are harmful to America, including what he calls pro-Hamas content but I suspect is actually anti-Israeli policy, pro-Palestine content. That is why I would argue there’s some evidence of a campaign against TikTok in particular that might skip over YouTube or other major platforms. Perhaps the Western powers feel that YouTube is still acceptably moderated towards their interests whereas TikTok isn’t. Perhaps Google is just too influential domestically.
Doesn’t mean your point isn’t worth discussion, or that my points aren’t opinion. I’m interested to see how it develops.
I think this ban is completely agnostic re: content. The issue is more fundamental – it’s fully owned and operated by people in China. This is a geopolitical battle that is currently playing out across many industries. Social media grabs headlines where less sexy industry battles do not.
I think Tom Nicholas gives a great overview.
Also, fuck Ted Cruz with a 20 inch dildo. Don’t take anything that sniveling carcass has to say seriously.
it’s fully owned and operated by people in China
US private equity firms own more than anyone. WSJ: What Is TikTok Worth? Some Say $20 Billion, Others Say $100 Billion
[ByteDance founder] Zhang owns 20% of ByteDance, according to the company, though super shares have given him larger voting rights. Roughly 60% of ByteDance is owned by global institutional investors including Carlyle Group, General Atlantic and Susquehanna International Group. The remaining 20% is owned by company employees.
The CEO is Singaporean Shou Zi Chew and the VP is American Michael Beckerman.
TikTok is a subsidiary of ByteDance, and that the Chinese government exerts significant political influence over ByteDance really is not a question
I think it’s a many birds with one stone situation - an industrial battle, a move to monopolize for Facebook after years of lobbying, Censorship etc.
I agree with this. I think you’re right.
Kinda like the not-so-unsupported conspiracy theory that musk bought Twitter to silence protest coordination. That Twitter was too useful to the ‘masses’ and the “sinister cabal” (not my words) said it needed to be taken out.
To reiterate: this is not my position but it is one I’ve heard that matches the sentiment expressed in the parent comment
What we certainly do know is that Musk bought twitter not to enable free speech, but to control speech according to his personal whims and beliefs.
I imagine the Saudi’s went in with Musk on the twitter deal to also control and dilute unfavorable speech. The Saudi ruler is the guy that assassinated journalist Jamal Khashoggi on foreign soil because he wasn’t exactly a team Saudi ruler kind of guy.
So if the Saudis went in with him, and he worked with them, then it wasn’t solely his personal whims and beliefs. Just, for once, stop psychologizing celebrities and look at what’s actually happening. Twitter was 100% a State Department and military intelligence asset. Musk makes most of his money from federal contracts, mostly related to military intelligence and adjacent domains. The state has all the means to stop Musk from destroying their asset with his personal whims (FTC, SEC, etc). Instead, he buys it with support from the Saudis, a family that leaders of the USA have sworn to protect for decades.
Face it. Musk’s personal beliefs are merely what allows him to work with the power brokers. He is the lightning rod, the money launderer, the public face, the whipping boy, and eventually the sacrificial body. He’s not running the show.
It’s his wealth and ego that allows him to attract folks like the Saudi regime. Shared whims, beliefs and goals can also be a thing. The Saudi’s were buying influence. Kind of like how the Crown Prince bought Jared Kusher thanks to all the business deals he was busy working on while his father-in-law was president. Kushner the self-serving stooge of the Saudi Crown Prince helped sweep U.S. intelligence reports on Khashoggi’s killing under the rug. Then was gifted $2billion of investment by the Crown Prince, which not even the Saudi’s believe is a good investment.
"Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman serves as the chairman of the Public Investment Fund, and reportedly personally intervened to approve the investment and overruled a panel of advisors who called the sum “unsatisfactory in all aspects.”
No one is claiming Elon is running ‘the’ show, but he certainly is running some show and has done plenty of damage with his twitter buyout. If you’re calling out US foreign policy and the Mid East you’re not wrong. Short-term selfish goals have lead to a myriad of long-term problems. Elon is not that bright, he has the temperament of a thin skinned teenage boy that never really grew up. I still don’t understand why you’re making him out to be some sort of martyr though.
I’m not saying he’s a martyr, I’m saying he’s not doing this from inside his skull but in concert with power brokers. The same is true of Kushner. Kashoggi’s dad was likely involved with the CIA based on the history of his work and institutions. MBS is not some rogue mastermind - the USA, up to and including presidents, have publicly stated that the Royal Family is under their direct protection and a major part of US policy. The murder of a journo and the subsequent coverup happened within the context of US power brokers calling the shots. MBS is somewhat roguish as he seems he may be trying to decouple from the USA enough to save his house from the inevitable collapse of the USA, and the Kashoggi killing may have been part of that, so the USA powers got a little split over whether to threaten him or cover it up, so they did both, but ultimately Saudi isn’t buying into Twitter with Elon as some part of a scheme against America, or against American liberals or against the Ds or whatever. MBS may be trying to purge Saudi institutions of the CIA, but his foreign policy is still constrained by his country’s absolute need for American protection.
Musk didn’t buy Twitter because he loves Trump and hates wokeness. He couldn’t have because it’s far too disruptive to power. Twitter was majorly important to power. Some moron with a lot of money, mostly money from the USA war machine, isn’t going to be allowed to just go wrecking USA war machine components, especially not when there are so many controls in place. We have to see Musk not as an evil mastermind nor as a sideshow but rather as a state actor. I guarantee most nations adversarial to the USA see Musk as a state actor and not some strange independent anomaly. And if we have to see Musk as a state actor, then we have to see the purchase of Twitter as a behavior beneficial to the USA power centers and that it happened because it was beneficial to them, not simply an accident.
I think it’s a little column A, a little column B.
Also Musk is incredibly dumb and for most people, that veil is finally falling.
Some of the real power behind the ‘throne’ is Peter Thiel. That guy is the worst of everything.
I 100% admit that my take on the TikTok ban is opinion based on the hearings and arguments + the scope of the bill, so you aren’t being unfair. I have never heard that about the Twitter purchase - I had read it was a poor decision Musk made only half-seriously and then was basically forced to follow through with.
The conspiracy theory, which I must again say is not my opinion, states the reluctance of the purchase was either: (A) A show put on to obfuscate “the truth”, or (B) An internal power struggle between the ruling elites and Musk
Just explaining, not advocating. Please don’t @ me.
TikTok is being banned for a bunch of different reasons all added together.
Republicans agreed to it, among the other reasons, because Democrats will get the blame for it and it will hurt Biden at the election.
Republicans and Democrats supported its ban because of sinophobia. It’s a big, successful business in America, there’s scaremongering around what data it’s collecting or ways it could be used to manipulate people’s opinions—ByteDance did not do itself any favours by coming out and telling all its American users to tell their Congresspeople to vote against this, which was spun as a demonstration of that power.
They also support the ban as part of an ongoing backlash against “big tech”. Republicans are angry at big tech because they think it’s too liberal. Democrats are angry at it for being addictive, abusing monopolistic powers, and other quite legitimate issues. The problem is that neither party is very good at actually dealing with the problem, so they just lash out wildly at whatever comes along that looks vaguely tech. Not realising that in this case, that will give way more power to Meta and Alphabet.
I think the reason it’s happening now is because of the growing protest movement against the genocide in Gaza.
All the other US media companies actively sensor pro-Palestine/anti-Israel content and TikTok doesn’t. Unacceptable!
That’s a bingo.
Y’just say ‘bingo’. /ref
Maybe, but I don’t think so. The US govt is infamously slow and inefficient. I’ve been following this and it’s been a drumbeat that’s been growing for years, since long before Israel’s latest genocidal push began last October.
If there’s any particular reason that it’s succeeded now, I’d put it more down to the upcoming election.
Here’s US Senator Pete Ricketts saying that we need to ban TikTok because pro-Palestine videos “have more reach than the top 10 US news websites combined”
The reason it’s succeeded now is because of Gaza. Crediting the election makes no sense, how does this help anyone’s election chances?
how does this help anyone’s election chances
It doesn’t help. It hurts Biden among younger voters. Because he gets the blame for this.
So why are Democrats doing this? This isn’t just a Republican thing, it’s bipartisan and Biden signed it. Why?
So why are Democrats doing this?
For all the other reasons already listed?
Oh shit, how did I miss the Noam Chompsky Bernie Sanders crossover episode!?
Thanks for sharing!
Who would ever think I’ll side with TikTok…
First they came for the TikTok, and I said nothing, for I wasn’t a Tiktoker.
Funny how y’all only oppose monopoly til it’s time to circle the wagons around settler companies that can’t compete
Idk why so many people assumed they would its a data gold mine even with the USA blocked
Sayonara
Good fucking riddance.
Good riddance? Not really cause US still has clones of tiktok present like reels and shorts.
Nothing will change. In fact, due to lack of competition, things will only get worse.
US and India are 2 removed countries.
Shorts fucking suck. It keeps recommending to me exactly four types of videos:
- stuff I have already watched, liked and commented – sometimes a few minutes prior
- videos I’m wildly uninterested with and systematically mark as irrelevant or instantly skip, yet it keeps bringing up videos of the same subject
- very old old “news” shorts
- stuff of people I’m subscribed to – which is fine, just not what makes great algorithms
Meanwhile, in a very short time, tiktok has managed to make me discover communities I had no idea I’d like to watch content from, while subtly managing to stop showing me some of the content from those communities I don’t enjoy
Still think it’s a baited headline given their stated intention to go to court to fight the “unconstitutional ruling”. I’m not so sure the constitution gives foreign companies many legal rights so in that regard they’d perhaps be more protected if they were an American company. Whoops.
TikTok’s 80% of investors who aren’t ByteDance won’t pass up billions of dollars in cash either if the alternative is that they forever get zero from the American market.
They’ve been investing heavily in the US market for the last couple years too, so I doubt they are in the black.
They’ve just all around played politics the American way very poorly. I can’t really comment on whether that’s good or bad but I’m blown away this Shou Chew CEO dude still has a job after this came down.
They’re probably going to find themselves having to explain what it means that a social media platform is itself engaged in speech, instead of functioning as a platform for others to speak. TikTok users, whose voices are allegedly curtailed by the ban, aren’t exactly prevented from going to another platform.
If they say that it’s Tiktok’s speech that’s curtailed, they’re going to have to explain carefully how they’re not a foreign influence operation.
The language of the first amendment is pretty stark, but the courts have always understood it has various limits.
they’re going to have to explain carefully how they’re not a foreign influence operation.
McCarthyism’s back baby!
Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the TikTok community?
It never went away.
Sounds like some progressive commie hippie dippie talk!
Type a 2,000,000 word essay on why democrats are better then Republicans and say “Joe Biden is the most pro union president in American history” 69 times as penance for your transgressions against the congregation.
/$
Yeah, but there was a period where liberals thought it was a bad thing.
They never thought it was a bad thing; they just put it back under the log that they hide their racism, genocidal bloodthirst, and unearned arrogance-- wait, they still call that “Exceptionalism”.
Yeah, you’re right. I should have said there was a time when they claimed to think it was a bad thing
It would be if McCarthy’s hearings were full of actual KGB agents.
A thing never mentioned in these debates is that noone in the world is buying tiktok without buying the underlying algorithm, the same algorithm the app runs on worldwide, the algorithm is the special sauce. They are not going to sell the basis for their app just for a single payday in the US market, which after buying it, they could rebrand and then once successful in the US, compete in the global market against tiktok but with the income of the most lucrative app market in the world behind them. It’s an extremely stupid business move.
This makes sense as there still billions of other potential users around the world. Add to that the fact that other nations like content of their own cultures in their own languages. It means even if they will feel the change the platform won’t collapse because it is missing US users. Now If other countries follow in the US footsteps then it becomes a different story.
If you as a content creator have a choice between a platform with 3 billion people (US and India included), like Shorts and Instagram Reels, and one without (TikTok), where would you post?
This is a clear disadvantage given to tiktok only to protect its own companies cause if US actually cared about data and mental health, homegrown Tech companies would also face repercussions.
LETS NOT FORGET, China can VERY EASILY buy most of the data it needs from the open market which many US companies, including Big Tech contribute to.
This has done nothing for citizens. Only protected innovation less US companies.
Banning TikTok in an election year is proof Democrats don’t want to win.
What’s the overlap between people who vote Republican and people who use Tiktok? I’m actually curious.
They’re both dumb as hell and love to be influenced by autocratic governments
You’re saying that 1/3 of Americans are dumb as hell while repeating BlueAnonsense.
- IT Pro: Cambridge Analytica models were exaggerated and ineffective, [UK Information Commissioner’s Office] claims
- Wall Street Journal: Mueller Doesn’t Find Trump Campaign Conspired With Russia
- Jacobin: Democrats and Mainstream Media Were the Real Kremlin Assets
- Washington Post: FEC fines DNC, Clinton for violating rules in funding Steele dossier
- Washington Post: Russian trolls on Twitter had little influence on 2016 voters
- Jacobin: It Turns Out Hillary Clinton, Not Russian Bots, Lost the 2016 Election
- Matt Taibbi: Move Over, Jayson Blair: Meet Hamilton 68, the New King of Media Fraud The Twitter Files reveal that one of the most common news sources of the Trump era was a scam, making ordinary American political conversations look like Russian spywork
- Jacobin: Why the Twitter Files Are in Fact a Big Deal On the Left, there’s been a temptation to dismiss the revelations about Twitter’s internal censorship system that have emerged from the so-called Twitter Files project. But that would be a mistake: the news is important and the details are alarming.
- MSNBC Repeats Hamilton 68 Lies 279 Times in 11 Minutes
- Jeff Gerth at Columbia Journalism Review on Russiagate: Editor’s Note | Part one | Part two | Part three | Part four
- Matt Taibbi: WMD, Part II: CIA “Cooked The Intelligence” To Hide That Russia Favored Clinton, Not Trump In 2016
- Chris Hedges: Why Russiagate Won’t Go Away
- Paris Marx: The TikTok ban is all about preserving US power
BlueAnonsense
Stealing this.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
MSNBC Repeats Hamilton 68 Lies 279 Times in 11 Minutes
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The age range skews younger, so probably not huge. It’s definitely there though - lots of “tradwife” thinly disguised fetish content. 😒
There’s a reason Trump came out against this ban, he knows it’s going to be unpopular and he loses nothing by flip-flopping on it.
This is just a free W for Trump and an L for Democrats with literally zero upsides. It accomplishes nothing besides pissing people off!
Well, unless there’s a credible national security angle that’s being kept confidential. I kind of suspect there is, since Trump tried to push through similar legislation, but worded it so badly that it never got out of debate… and the likes of Wyden voted for it even while they said it was the wrong legislation to solve the problem.
The USA literally installed state department officials into TikTok https://scheerpost.com/2023/04/17/tiktok-chinese-trojan-horse-is-run-by-state-department-officials/
Lmao and then they get mad at communist political comissars.
Please don’t tell me you actually believe them when they cry about national security. It’s almost always a lie.
Usually it’s about economics. But in this case, it may actually be true.
Generally, I consider real natsec issues to be things they can’t tell the public. So when I see privacy minded reps joining in with reps from both side of the aisle, I’m willing to lend a bit of credence to a security angle.
Assuming it’s not just the US being upset that some other autocratic government is controlling the medium du jour.
… and so by whining about natsec they can get you to support anything, as long as they don’t tell you about it?
No, I ignore the whining and consider it may be an issue based on actual behavior, as I originally stated.
Hence the “in this case, they might be actually telling the truth” from the original statement.
Just because they over-use an excuse doesn’t mean that it isn’t true on the odd occasion.
The problem is that so much crying wolf makes it more difficult to tell when it’s real.
It’s actually already banned in multiple countries, especially for anyone in government positions.
According to the world map in this link the countries that have banned it outright are: North Korea, China, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Uzbekistan, Krzykstan, India, Nepal, and Somalia.
(For anyone else like me who has trouble with unlabeled maps).
What about according to the text on that damn page?
It accomplishes nothing besides pissing people off!
It denies the CCP mainline media access to our society, with which they can sow division. Arguably a lot of what’s happening on campuses now is thanks to TikTok.
That they refuse to sell tells me that their investment in this company is not about profit.
The CPC can just buy data from a different broker. You think Alphabet or Meta are loyal to American interests?
Also, TikTok won’t be banned for months, so it won’t change the campus protests at all. In fact it’ll probably piss the protesters off even more, it’s very obvious government censorship.
Also also, there’s zero proof TikTok is promoting pro-Palestine/anti-Israel content. That’s just what is naturally popular, the reality is that all the other social media companies are suppressing pro-Palestine/anti-Israel content. That’s it.
Facebook absolutely would sell your info to foreign governments, however I’m not convinced Google would.
I know Google harvests a shitton of data and uses it for advertising, but that’s ironically why I think they probably wouldn’t actually sell it. Because Google owns a massive advertising company, it’s in their best interests to keep the data they collect so that other companies can’t pop up and use the data themselves.
Also, if I’m not mistaken, the bill isn’t specifically about tiktok but instead covers the sale of personal data to foreign countries in general. It’s just that it’s worded in a way that tiktok is the obvious target. As such, I’m not sure an American company could sell their customer’s info to China; at least not without laundering it through other companies first.
However, all of that said, I’m not trying to defend the bill, tiktok, Google or Facebook. I don’t like any of those companies and while I think the concept of the bill is good, it’s very obviously focused on tiktok and, like you and others have pointed out, does nothing about the data collection that American companies do.
The law only prohibits the operations of so-called “foreign adversary controlled applications” i.e. companies with Chinese investors.
I’m pretty sure if TikTok was controlled by American investors and sold data to China it would be fine - although there’s also an executive action that bans selling data to foreign adversaries, it also hasn’t actually been implemented by regulators and is pretty simple to work around anyway since a third-party can just buy data from American companies and then sell it to China.
I think a bill like this that targeted all companies that collect data would be good.
Targeting “foreign adversary controlled applications” doesn’t really help anyone.
You think Chinese-owned Tiktok is inciting anti genocide protests on purpose?
That train of thought has interesting implications. American-owned Facebook keeps being caught inciting actual genocides in other countries…
lots of “tradwife”
Wild, I’ve never stumbled on any of that. But it has a really sensitive algorithm and I’m pretty firmly entrenched in the science-travel-pets axis.
Yes, that is just another reason the DNC/Democrates will continue to lose support, compared to 2020.
Some also left the duopoly due to following the DNC Fraud Lawsuit, Bernie Sanders 2016.
Interesting times we are living in, we shall continue to follow!
Who votes for the dictator because of losing TikTok?
They’re just going to stay home.
Which is the same as a vote for a dictator. And that is super cool if you are looking forward to Project 2025, and selling out loved ones so they can be put in camps as political prisoners.
The guy you replied to has replied in a similar variant of “x event happened, therefore dems don’t want to win.”
Can’t fault them though, he’s just doing his job and following orders. The opposite would be …. Unthinkable
Have you thought maybe the democrats themselves own some responsibility for the jeopardy the election is in? Maybe banning one of the most popular social media sites right before an election was a bad move?
It had votes/support from both sides. And giving away democracy because you’re upset about a social media site seems like a bad take. Imagine telling future generations you traded the country’s democracy because you were mad at them because they took away your short video sites.
You can’t fear monger about “the end of democracy” every election while also insisting that everyone has to vote for your guy, regardless of him being an antidemocratic, genocidal ghoul.
Can you not comprehend what i said? Tiktok is more popular with younger people, and younger people have historically voted more for democrats. Of course republicans would help democrats shoot themselves in the foot here. How can you see this and not give any responsibility to the democrats?
Pretty sure that funding, aiding and abetting a genocide while denying there’s money for anything that benefits their own citizens is what’s losing the democrats support.
No, it’s not.
Abstaining from voting is an option the voter is given.
I bet you have a heck of a time differentiating apples, oranges, and pears.
“A pear is basically just an orange because you didn’t pick the apple.” - TimLovesTech
🤡
Is a vote for Trump actually two votes for Trump? Oh! Is every dollar you don’t donate to Biden a dollar donated to Trump?
I’m not following your logic here. Not voting, or actually voting for Trump both work in his favor because his base is going to vote for him no matter what. You would only be hurting the side that wants us to continue to have future elections. But at the end of the day if you can look in the mirror and be ok with selling out democracy more power to ya.
They just passed a fascist bipartisan bill to censor TikTok because it was showing the truth about Gaza and because it was disrupting the preexisting media cartel that already exists in the US. This was part of a larger fascist foreign aid package meant to help Israel carry out its genocide and prolong the war in Ukraine instead of seek a peace deal and help provoke a war in Taiwan by arming them to the teeth and pushing us to fucking WW3. By voting for them you are making it clear that they can do anything they want to you and you’ll beg for more.
I already decided not to vote for genocide Joe a while ago. If I’m going to vote at all, I’m going to vote the way Bushnell did.
Mathematician here, I can answer this. Equivalence relations are symmetric, so if staying home is a vote for Trump then showing up to vote for Trump is the same as staying home on election day.
Okay, but then isn’t staying home also a vote for Biden by the same logic?
This isn’t a binary relation, there’s clearly three options (vote for Biden, vote for Trump, vote for neither).
That doesn’t make any sense. The idea that staying home could be a vote for Biden seems pretty silly on its face. If that were true, there wouldn’t be any point in going out to vote for him, because the majority (or at least a plurality) of the country stays home regardless. He’d win in a landslide.
By the dictator, you mean the one running the genocide and expanding spying on the civilian population as we currently speak, right?
Lol it was bipartisan. Not just democrats, Republicans as well.
So what? This only pisses off the Democrat’s base and it will make them stay home.
Notably the ban doesn’t kick in until after the election, after which it may not even be Biden’s problem. Maybe ByteDance will shut it down sooner. Maybe the next administration won’t follow through with the ban. 🤷
It was smart to delay the ban. The original bill would have banned it before the election - monumentally stupid! This, at least, delays the impact.
People are paying attention, though, and TikTok has been buying ads to campaign against this law. It’s still going to have an impact.
And Biden himself has a tiktok account that pumps out content.
The whole thing is very cynical and weird.
It’s a piss poor attempt to try control tiktok and ensure they play along. They don’t really want it banned, they just want to control the flow of information and it’s absolutely destroying the illusion of the first amendment!
Ehhh…I doubt it.
The sell-or-ban measure was signed into law by US President Joe Biden on Wednesday.
This is the important part you might have missed, without a president signing it into law it means nothing.
Similar to when Biden said he would never sign a M4A bill (4yrs ago), he would veto, which became a deal breaker to some on the far left.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=biden+veto+medicare+for+all+bill
Well yeah, but saying this was all on democrats isn’t true, either. A democratic signed it, but an entire group of Democrats and Republicans are the reason it exists. Besides, I’m ok with the ban. A lot of people are actually, so technically, yeah it will affect who we vote for haha
Maybe in your circles people are okay with banning a social media company due to perceived ‘spying’, but in reality we know why the blues/reds want to ban it.
People in my circles are fighting and helping share why these bans are bad for our society and free speech in general.
I hope that helps you see a different view from what you are used to!
No, not really. It’s cool of you disagree with me, though.
In fact, even if they wanted to they can’t.
Remember the “algorithm panic” that happened a couple years ago? The one that saw Zuckerberg the subject of a senate hearing?
During that, they made it illegal to sell algorithms.
So the TikTok logo can be sold, but it is illegal for them to sell the algorithm that is TikTok.
I’m not sure what specifically you’re referring to, but algorithms are, generally speaking, code. You can purchase a company and their code.
Admittedly, I don’t know the details, so I’ll concede readily if someone has something to say I’m flat out wrong, but TikTok is on fire with lawyers posting their legal analysis of the situation, and the overwhelming concensus that a couple years ago, a series of laws were passed that would make it illegal for a US company to purchase a Chinese algorithm.
The company, the branding, yes.
Specifically the algorithm, no.
Paranoid people who don’t know how to open a PDF passed laws that make that nearly, if not entirely, impossible.
Or so a bunch of lawyers that have side TikTok gigs say.
They are anticipating that being a core argument when TikTok US sues the federal government.
Can you link to any info about this? You have twice declared it illegal to sell an algorithm but expect others to prove you wrong as a proof
I have done a quick search and found no proof of this
Then your quick search is balls and if you have nothing to the contrary, you have as much footing as me.
I’m good with that.
TikTok “legality of selling the algorithm”. Mountains of takes.
You still dont share any concrete info about your statement. By now i’ve read 3 articles about it with no proof of what you re saying although many results are about algorithms that sell stock.
https://www.fastcompany.com/91113337/bytedance-tiktok-shutdown-us-ban-sell-algorithm
This did not mention it to be illegal although it discusses why Tok would be unwilling to sell the algorythm
Id value if you could share where you have your info from instead of asking me to proove that its not there.
BTW? Did you just recommend that i search about it on Tik Tok?
BTW? Did you just recommend that i search about it on Tik Tok?
Ya, if you want to find some lawyers that have a vested interest in what is going on with TikTok that Google and Microsoft aren’t suppressing, you might want to check out the platform we are actually talking about. It’s great at quickly spreading uncensored information (the real reason the fed is trying to ban it. They want us dumb and eating up their propaganda).
Just an idea.
Interestingly i am searching from an area where ‘the fed’ have no influence on my searches whatsoever.
Arguing that legal info about your statement on algorithm sales is only available by lawyers on Tik Tok is proof enough for me to just let this be.
