• Altofaltception@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Didn’t Israel overstep and attack Iran’s embassy in Syria? Why are we defending Israel against retaliation for their own stupidity?

    • peg@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      They didn’t “overstep” . They committed an act of war. It’s as simple as that. And now the yanks want to help them start an illegal war. .

          • Rusty Shackleford@programming.dev
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            7 months ago

            The governments of the world are run by sociopaths. The idea of democratic/federal/republican governance is not inherently evil. The people and syndicates who’ve siezed power most certainly are.

            Biden is acting the same way Trump would (nominally): our (the billionaire class) interests are paramount. Netanyahu’s naked aggression is aligned with our sociopathic ruling class’s interests.

            Our military commanders are wilfully neglecting their duty to our republic and remaining passive or silent about the legality of our country’s enabling of Israeli escalation.

            Our only hope seems to be Trump and Biden dying of age-related diseases or conditions, and younger voices of reason step in to guide our foreign policy.

            My forlorn hope, in the face of continuing catastrophe.

            • masquenox@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              The governments of the world are run by sociopaths.

              They’ve always been run by these kinds of people. Which means this…

              The idea of democratic/federal/republican governance is not inherently evil.

              …cannot be true, can it? After all, these kinds of people created “democratic/federal/republican governance” exactly for this purpose, didn’t they?

              • Rusty Shackleford@programming.dev
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                7 months ago

                They’ve always been run by these kinds of people.

                No. Not always.

                After all, these kinds of people created “democratic/federal/republican governance” exactly for this purpose, didn’t they?

                Exclusively sociopathic people didn’t conceive of the idea of democratic/federal/republican governance, or put another way, governance with distributed authority and consent of the governed.

                I don’t know what you’re trying to say, but, all I have is a general sense of “Wtf are you talking about?”.

                • masquenox@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  No. Not always.

                  I’m afraid the answer is yes. Pick any of these (alleged) “Great Men” who (supposedly) “represented” us in the past and I’ll point out how they pushed us to the disasterous conditions we are facing today.

                  Exclusively sociopathic people didn’t conceive of the idea of democratic/federal/republican governance,

                  Take the US as an example of how it’s (supposedly) “democratic” system of governance was designed from the ground up to be decidedly anti-democratic. If you want to see capitalists and fascists glorify this fundamental aspect of US history, click here. This should not surprise you - being anti-democratic is about as right-wing as it gets.

                  The idea of democracy itself, and it’s embrace by masses of people long, long before the ancient Greeks gave it a name is not the result of this malady you speak of - but the powerful elites that co-opted it certainly was and still are.

              • AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                The Greeks created democracy, though. They were the first to think of a government where the people have a say in the managers of their affairs and resources. Would you really say the ancient Greeks were sociopaths?

                • masquenox@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  The Greeks created democracy, though

                  No, they didn’t. The Greeks just argued about it a lot, wrote those arguments down and invented a term for it - a term we still use. The idea that people should have power over their own affairs is as old as human civilization itself - if it wasn’t, kings and emperors wouldn’t have had to invent all those creative methods of terrorizing people into submission, would they?

                  Would you really say the ancient Greeks were sociopaths?

                  People in ancient Greece weren’t a monolith.

        • Jamil@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          What are you doing to prevent it? If you’re doing nothing, then you do want this.

          Not calling you out specifically.

          • iamjackflack@lemm.ee
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            7 months ago

            I’m so sick of this answer. It’s not always possible for me as an individual to do something about this. People in the US cannot be easily motivated to force gov to do anything. The bulk of the nation has it good enough they won’t riot and force change.

            It doesn’t mean action isn’t being taken or is not desired.

            The point of my comment is trying to show solidarity with the nation / entity that’s being shit on. You don’t have to be a dick because I can’t stop a 300+million person nation to change but want to show support and empathy.

            • Jamil@lemm.ee
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              7 months ago

              That just sounds like cowardice and laziness. There are lots of people doing things, and you can’t come up with even the smallest bit of effort.

              Attend a protests. They’re usually on the weekend. Tell other people you went to a protest. It signals that it’s okay to talk about Israel and their crimes against humanity.

              Change doesn’t happen easily, but it snowballs over time. Do something! I’m doing it right now.

          • UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Well the word antisemitic unfortunately is now used for anything by Israel for anything against them, even though their leaders are committing atrocities in retaliation for atrocities. A lot of Israelis don’t like what nethanyahu is doing and a lot of Palestinians don’t like what Hamas is doing.

          • masquenox@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Are we only now calling Iran antisemitic?

            No. We are only now starting to call Israel and Zionism antisemitic.

            It takes a while, but the truth always catches up.

    • masquenox@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Didn’t Israel overstep and attack Iran’s embassy in Syria?

      You mean that thing Israel has been doing since 1948?

      Yes. Yes they did.

      Why are we defending Israel against retaliation for their own stupidity?

      It’s not stupidity. It’s impunity.

    • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Why are we defending Israel against retaliation for their own stupidity?

      Because Joe Biden is the president and he unconditionally supports israel.

    • MagicShel@programming.dev
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      7 months ago

      We’re like the college-age big brother of the school bully. If you try to stand up to the bully, we’ll come kick your ass because no matter how much of a little prick he is, he’s family and we’ve got his back.

      • chknbwl@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        So what if our little brother was more than just a prick? A stray punch thrown during a fight knocks some innocent kids’ teeth out? What if he killed someone one day by pushing them around too hard? How do you deal with that when the cops are too busy and your parents aren’t home?

        I wish we, as College-Bro, would quit blindly defending our “family” and start thinking about the recipients. Our little bully brother needs to be grounded for a while like our Russian cousin.

        My real question: how would you ground a child holding a loaded gun?

    • sandman@lemmy.ca
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      7 months ago

      Why are we defending Israel against retaliation for their own stupidity?

      Israel is more important to the American government that American citizens.

      It’s why we still support Israel, despite it being one of the main reasons for 9/11.

        • sandman@lemmy.ca
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          7 months ago

          Osama Bin Laden’s letter “To the American People.”

          https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ubl2016/english/To the American people.pdf

          As for us, our Iraq was invaded in response to pressure from capitalists with greed for black gold, and you continue to support the oppressive Israelis in their occupation of our Palestine in response to pressures on your administration by a Jewish lobby backed by enormous financial capabilities.

          They threw hundreds of thousands of soldiers against us and have formed an alliance with the Israelis to oppress us and occupy our land; that was the reason for our response on the eleventh.

          It’s crazy how few people know this in 2024. It should be a lesson to you all about how much information is being manipulated on all sides.

          • theotherverion@lemmynsfw.com
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            7 months ago

            That does not mean he was right. If Osama says something, it does not automatically mean he is correct.

            If Osama came and said white people were the reason of 9/11, would you just go ahead and kill white people, so Osama is happy? Should you just sacrifice anything to make a terrorist happy?

            • sandman@lemmy.ca
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              7 months ago

              He didn’t do that though and you’re just grasping at straws to avoid accepting information you don’t like.

              I see it all the time.

            • masquenox@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              That does not mean he was right.

              Soooo… where is the lie, exactly?

              Here?

              you continue to support the oppressive Israelis in their occupation of our Palestine

              Or here, perhaps?

              They threw hundreds of thousands of soldiers against us and have formed an alliance with the Israelis to oppress us and occupy our land;

              • theotherverion@lemmynsfw.com
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                7 months ago

                Making a terrorist attack because you are unhappy with which states exist 50 years after the UN decision cannot be tolerated.

                Also, saying that “land is ours” and thinking that nothing can ever change it is wrong.