Just putting this here cause I found it a good overview of a pretty confusing situation I had no prior knowledge about
Why does everything have to be a video these days ffs. What’s the tl;dr?
Trying to remain unbias, the super TLDR;
- FDO decided that they didn’t like vaxry’s community and told him to fix or action will be taken against him (Banning from FDO) for violating their (FDO’s)
- Vaxry said, This is my community, It’s not an FDO project, and is not under control of FDO, Doesn’t fall under purview of FDO’s COC, I will not be bullied. And posted the interaction.
- FDO’s COC committy didn’t like that and banned vaxry from FDO.
Time for my personal bias Im not sure how I can hide this other then spoiler, but ignore it if you don’t want my very bias opinion;
spoiler
FDO for sure over stepped their bounds. FDO did wrongfully invoke their COC against hyprland’s community, Their COC is extremely clear on it’s “scope” https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeOfConduct/ under which hyprland absolutely doesn’t fall under. That being said, OFC FDO retains the right to ban anyone from their services as they please (I’ll explain why this is extremely bad below). But they invoked the COC which is extremely important here.
Vaxry absolutely acted unprofessionally in publicizing this, on the other hand, I’m really glad he did because it’s insane that FDO is attacking the hyprland community in the first place, which is an extremely self isolating community. It’s very much “what happens in the discord is a discord thing”. Outside of the discord, hyprland community is perfectly fine. I’ve not seen a single “Hyprland fan” go around shitting on anything else (granted this is hard to judge since you need to be given context of someone shitting on something, to be a hyprland fan), on the contary, I have seen many people publically shittying on vaxry on multiple forums.
FDO was in their right to ban Vaxry for publicizing the emails, but I don’t think it was a good idea at all. They essentially punished Vaxry for airing their dirty laundry. Proving him right in the end. It’s important to note, that given context, Drew’s articles on Vaxry are insanely biased against him, with the intent to drum up hate towards vaxry (going so far as to imply Vaxry would call people the N-Word when giving support to people by using extremely misleading and cherry picked context)
The original emails are best explained by vaxry himself so check out his blog.
In the end, Vaxry acted unprofessionally and got banned for it, but FDO acted equally unprofessionally, and their actions greatly overstepped the rights they had (as far as enforcing COC goes, their original email)
Now WHY is FDO banning vaxry so important? Pretty much everything that matters in terms of linux gui development is on FDO’s services. Wayland protocol discussion, Mesa, Wlroots etc. by banning vaxry from these services, he is pretty much no longer able to directly interact with the wayland community. (At least not without ban evasion or someone else acting as a proxy)
EDIT: I forgot my conclusions.
I strongly feel like FDO is using their position as the people who control linux to push their politics unto others. Hence Vaxry’s original blog post
How Freedesktop/RedHat harass other projects into submissionThanks. A lot of drama then. I’ve been in the discord and on github for a while and from that I can tell vaxry has a bit of a “personality”, as many good developers have. Nothing wrong with that. I like Hyprland a lot, I have been using it daily for 2 years or so and any bugs I reported got fixed really fast. In the end it is a solid project and that’s what really matters.
Let’s hope this thing blows over quickly.
What is Vaxry and FDO? Not like you can google FDO…
From Vaxry’s second blogpost:
However, it was brought to our attention apparently you have decided to take to posting about this to your blog.
I have full rights to do so, just like you apparently had the right to post it to your mailing list.
I didn’t dug any deeper, but it seems like Lyude also published the communication between her an Vaxry, if I understand it correctly.
TLDW: read all the blog posts, all the discussions and make your own opinion. I lost 15 minutes of my life and didn’t become any more informed or smarter.
I did a quick search but only found a deleted reddit post lol.
Cast:
- Vaxry: Hypr, Hyprland creator, contributes to wlroots and Freedesktop
- Lyude: member of X.org board, Freedesktop.org, Red Hat employee
- Drew DeVault: Sway and Hare creator, self-proclaimed Zig hater
- FDO: FreeDesktop Organisation(?)
Warning: Not lore accurate
TL:DR;
Vaxry’s Discord server for Hyprland was filled with edgy kids, calling each other LGBTQ+ related slurs - maybe they were from the community themselves, maybe it was a boy’s locker room. It was toxic.
From what Vaxry said, a trans user was misgendering his mod staff, so their pronoun was changed to “who/cares”. That was two years ago. Drew DeVault wrote a blog about it, Vaxry was pissed, shit happened. They discuss but could not come to an agreement; however there were a few changes. Vaxry apologized later about the incident, but he was not in agreement with political correctness.
Vaxry’s policy according to him is that he does not discriminate PR on the basis of people. He also created a CoC (mentioned earlier), but not many were happy about it being vague. But then, he also made a blog against inclusivity in FOSS, and calls them SJWs as a pejorative.
Vaxry lost his marbles when he got a mail from Lyude. Lyude used a Redhat mail, which was seen as unprofessional, and tried enforcing FDO’s CoC on Hyprland and other related project.
He sent back a passive-aggressive mail, which said “fuck off” in short. He also share Lyude’s toots in the blog about how Lyude supports bullying people for missing T in LGB, as a justification that Lyude tried bringing their past unnecessarily. Lyude sent another mail. Vaxry said that they don’t care, basically another formal “fuck off”. Finally, FDO yeeted Vaxry.
That’s it. Maybe I’ve missed a few details here and there. I did not read other’s blog, but Vaxrys’. And it isn’t looking good. In a way, this is also the abuse of power by Lyude, but looking at Vaxrys’ indifference, yeah, I wouldn’t have a positive attitude about that.
Source:
- How Freedesktop/RedHat harass other projects into submission
- Freedesktop/RedHat’s CoC team is worse than you thought
- Inclusive community activists are harming FOSS
Extras:
Edit: After watching Nico’s video, I’m convinced that Vaxry is a living, breathing turd. He crossed every limit. Good on him for getting banned.
So basically a cancerous organization meets a toxic community?
Awesome entertainment for hours!
*grabs popcorn*
I’m looking forward to when the Linux community, and society at large, has forgotten about noninclusive Transphobic assholes like this fuck.
I honestly don’t care if the work you’ve done saves the planet and proves you’re the smartest human to ever live. If Vaxry can’t understand why being sympathetic to the LGBTQ+ community by adhering to their conventions around identifying pronouns is a good thing, then he’s simply chosen to align himself with those who don’t care, i.e. Transphobic hate groups.
That’s the company he keeps now, and it might as well be who he is.
Damn, I had no idea what a shithole the hyprland community was :c
I quite like the feel of the WM, but it seems like I’ll be moving on
It’s sad cuz the soft is good tho But I’ll be moving from it as well
and it’s too niche to have a reasonable chance of creating an active fork. but the stuff happening in their community is simply vile, and as a queer person I won’t feel comfortable to use software developed by open bigots
nicco loves linux also apparently made a good video, I just saw this one first
Yeah, whatever. If you don’t like the community, you leave it. Or make your own unofficial community with blackjack and hookers. As simple as that.
But it was the blackjack and hookers that got us into this in the first place.
Great video from brodie, Regardless of where you stand on the issue, This video is an unbiased and decent take.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/watch?v=Lm3gLwyjawQ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
It is so stupid… Why make drama instead of making linux better as a whole. A sad thing to see in general.
American culture warriors have decided that their ideology is more important - you see this a lot where their ideology’s goal becomes the “greater cause” worth sacrificing the mission: e.g. in journalism.
I sorta agree, but the “greater cause” doesn’t exist.
Totally agree. Started with the Me-Too movement where we saw people accused and convicted without due process. It seemed to spin out of the Jian Gnomeshi acquittal.
Does this have any impact on the future viability of Hyprland as a project? Should it affect (on a technical level) whether users should start using Hyprland if they don’t already?
I literally installed it for the first time yesterday to take a look, but don’t want to get invested in something that may fizzle out…
Who is that guy and why would he have the authority to demand a talk? From the looks of the thumbnail alone he seems to be super full of himself.
“we need to talk” is just a phrase, he’s not demanding from anyone
I absolutely love Hyprland but have no respect for Vaxry beyond his coding ability.
I really hope someone starts a good fork of it, I haven’t found another wm I like as much but I hate to be seen as supporting that awful person.
It’s FOSS, just don’t donate to the project or promote it and keep using it anyway. That’s the beauty of FOSS, the devs dumb opinions shouldn’t effect your personal use of quality tools. Imagine if you stopped using hammers just because “communism”, it’d be a pretty stupid self inflicted inconvenience.
If the project itself goes to shit and he starts using it to push his stupid agenda, then abandon it. But until then it’s completely understandable to keep using it for your personal workflow. Everyone uses GNU utilits, that doesn’t mean we agree with everything Richard Stallmen has ever said.
Hopefully Vaxry will learn and clean up his act.
I actually like this kind of light-hearted spirit. I dream of a future when this whole woke culture thing will be a thing of the past.
Code of Conduct enforcement team
Yeah. This sounds like a truly free and open thing.
Also called moderators elsewhere. Without those, the internet would be unusable for anyone not a cishet white Christian fundamentalist.
That is just nonsense. Without moderators the internet would be unusable for everyone.
You’re trying to argue reality is the same for everyone. But as a CisHet Guy It’s kind of obvious I get treated better than women and it just gets worse from Woman to then any of the LBTQIA+ community.
I am not even white and christian and I can tell the difference. Please don’t try to argue about it being equally bad for everyone if moderation was taken away.
Depends on your perspective I guess. The way I see it: Moderators are (partially) there to limit the spread of hate so if you are a hate spreader, you would thrive without moderation, but if you are a hate receiver, you’re better off when moderation rules are enforced.
Without moderators most spaces would be completely unusable due to spammers, trolls and others whose behavior and motivations have very little to do with their sexuality, politics, their skin tone or their religion.
Hate spreaders need people to spread hate to, but people that are targeted by hate tend not to hang around in spaces where unrestrained hate is allowed.
Yeah but moderators are not send over by another project. Regardless of how you stand on the main issue, I don’t understand the function of the freedesktop team.
Moderation of illegal/forbidden content is not equal to enforcing arbitrary soft-skill based rules.
You think being a bigot is a skill issue do you? Like everyone deep down is just a bigot (self-inferred I assume?), and some people just have the social skills to hide that better? Have you tried not being a bigot instead of just hiding it?
Like everyone deep down is just a bigot (self-inferred I assume?), and some people just have the social skills to hide that better
Basically this. Yes. This is how socialization works. This is also how a society works.
I have no problem with Vaxry since I don’t know him personally. I don’t think we could be friends, based on what he says online. But to me this is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to using the software he maintains.
Well I’ve got news for you, that’s just some bullshit theory bigots come up with to justify their shitty attitude.
If you say so.
Speak for yourself and your bigotted ass.
I can’t wait for the rest of the world to he as online as America so we have bigotry of all creed race and sexualities.
Absurd take lol. Every organization needs a code of conduct and someone to enforce it.
Enforce it against unrelated projects not being part of said organization?
If you walk into a job interview and they find your tweets of you saying the nword over and over, and you don’t get the job, that’s a you problem. Nobody wants to work with people who’ll bring negative PR.
This is true. But iuf they enforce a rule that I have to wear a frog hat with googly eyes at home they can kindly fuck off, though.
That’s not what’s happening here. They are barring him from participating in their project, he can still say whatever the fuck he wants on his own project. They just don’t want to work with him.
Oh, okay. Yeah. If it’s their project they can do whatever they want.
I just remembered the issue as they want to enforce their policies on the Hyprland community.
That’s the way Vaxry spun it to try making them look bad while he downplays his own behavior and malpractice. Basically he just lied and spread misinformation, he really needs to get his act together if he ever wants to work with them again.
