- cross-posted to:
- books@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- books@lemmy.ml
Etsy sellers are turning free fanfiction into printed and bound physical books, and listing them for sale on online marketplaces for more than $100 per book. It’s a problem that’s rattling the authors of those fanfics, as well as their fans and readers.
Several sellers, easily found on Etsy and very popular, each with hundreds of five-star reviews, are selling copies of fanfiction taken from sites like Archive of Our Own (Ao3) and reselling them as bound books. The average price of these bound copies is around $149. Some sellers claim that they’re simply covering the cost of materials, while others just sell the books, usually with the fanfiction writers’ Ao3 username on the cover.
You must log in or register to comment.
If you’re one of these affected authors you should register the copyright for your work if you can afford to and try to find a copyright attorney. Copyright infringement carries statutory damages per infringement so you could get a substantial judgement.
If it’s fanfic, there’s likely no chance a copyright can be granted on existing copyrighted characters/themes.
True. I’m not an expert here but I always thought that fan fiction could only co-exist with copyrighted material if the author wasn’t benefiting financially from the derivative work. Someone else taking it and selling it seems like more a target for the rights holders of the original work.
Profit is not directly one of the factors considered in fair use, but indirectly it’s considered with the purpose of your use and the effect on the potential market.
I believe that fanfic writers are still entitled to copyright for the original parts of their work, and there is no legal issue if the work is sufficiently transformative, but I’d imagine many authors may prefer to have their fanfics avoid scrutiny in the courts in the event the work is found to not be transformative enough.
I’m not a copyright expert either, but I would think it goes one of two ways.
One is that the original rights holder of the IP could sue these binders for profiting off of it.
The other is that they can’t because the work is sufficiently transformative, in which case it would fall to he fanfic writer. From there, it probably depends on how they released their work. Some websites might claim ownership of anything published there as part of their ToS. Some authors might explicitly release their works under more open licenses to encourage community involvement. If it was just posted somewhere without addressing these questions (which I would guess is pretty common)… Sounds like a mess for the courts to sort out.
I believe they technically need permission to use original characters and settings. But they may fall under parody depending how different they are.
But the things they add are 100% owned by them.
So if a company wanted to they could absolutely get it all taken down.
And likewise they should be able to stop these people printing their work.
But it is all very complex and depends entirely on how much they used from the original.
Indeed, this is a common misunderstanding of the status of fanworks. Most fanfics likely violate the copyright of the IP they’re based on, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t themselves original copyrighted works. The original IP’s rightsholders can’t simply claim the fanfic’s copyright for themselves. It likely means that each party would need the other party’s permission to make legal copies of the fanfic.
This is why most studios or authors will refuse to even read unsolicited ideas that are sent to them, they don’t want to end up in a bind if someone sends them a fanfic that’s got elements in it that they already intended to use in future books or episodes and then sues them for “stealing” their work.
Yeah. You hold some rights. For example, you don’t get the rights to the characters or setting since they’re not original, but you do get the rights to the unique events that happen in your plot.
For example, if you write “Harry Potter Goes to France”, Harry Potter is obviously not yours, but the story of going to France is new and original. If you wanted, you could reskin that story with some original wizard kid and be fully in the clear.
Hypothetically, anyway. I’m not sure that this has been tested in court.
Famously, “50 Shades of Grey” started out as a Twilight fanfic. The author later pulled out all of the Twilight-related stuff and then it was free and clear to publish as their own work. Given how much money 50 Shades raked in I would imagine there’s been some legal scrutiny there from various sides.
On the one hand, people work hard to make fanfic, and shit like this is a great way to get the copyright holders of the original work to start looking at fanfic with a stern eye.
On the other, can you imagine the gag gift potential of an attractively bound physical edition of the worst Sonic the Hedgehog fanfic you can find?
Seems like something fan fic writers should be doing on their own
Fanfic writers often aren’t too keen on monetizing their fanfic, as they don’t want to draw the attention of rights holders.
Not gonna lie, an attractively bound hardcover copy of My Immortal would be a hilarious gag present.
…to send to J.K. Rowling.
EDIT: even better - try to get her to sign it for you.
Better yet get her to sign a copy of The Legend of Rah and the Muggles .
I’ve heard of My Immortal but not Legend of Rah. What am I missing out on?
It’s what some say Rowling openly stole the entire idea for Harry Potter from.
I’m still convinced that Internet Historian wrote it.
404 Media – Bias and Credibility
Bias Rating: Left-Center
Factual Reporting: Mostly Factual
Country: USA
MBFC’s Country Freedom Rank: Mostly Free
Media Type: Website
Traffic/Popularity: Medium Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: High Credibility
MBFC is an extremely biased and garbage site based largely on the opinion of one man.
Does everything have to be a hustle? Fuck
the cost of living is too high and real opportunities for an honest living are scarce so hustling is the inevitable result.
Capitalism capitalizes.
Rule of Acquisition 67: Enough is never enough
Whatever happened to internet etiquette?
You (or the person commissioning the book) ask before you do this kinda thing!Etsy is supposed to carry the torch for that kinda small community vibe of mature adults making money from their side business.
These folks deserve to get a bit flamed, because this feels like 2009 drama we should have collectively figured out forever ago
Etiquette loses to profit every time.
Without market regulation, this is were we always end up.
It’s Etsy’s job to vet their sellers, but they don’t want to lose profit.
And likewise, the sellers could be polite, ask permission and potentially settle on some amount of royalty payments, or they could just do it, make their money, and ask for forgiveness afterwards or just take down the listing and find another artist’s work to repackage
I don’t think sellers that think taking other people’s IP for their own profit is the kind of person who can be polite.
Is not IP if it’s public domain, probably the main reason is not the authors property is because it never was in the start as they just copied from someone else’s work.
If you love capitalism then it’s horrible and evil, if you love literature and society of ideas then it’s great.
A lot of stuff I release is cc0 explicitly so people can copy it freely, some uses copy-left so it can’t be sold for profit - These are informed choices I make, of people aren’t making informed choices then do I really have to care if they don’t get what they want?
If someone wants to put my stories into a physical volume that’s fine, I created them to create and to spread my mind virus.
Etsy USED to be a seller space for individual makers. Then about ten years ago they started allowing mass-produced items, and it’s been downhill ever since.
There are still individual makers there, but they’re drowned out by all the counterfeits and Chinese dropshippers of ultra cheap tat, and the corporates making coin off the current “we sell anything that sells” policy.
You can’t even report counterfeits on Etsy anymore. That’s what a shithole it’s turned into.
Is there an alternative? Something like old school Etsy?
Not that I know of, at least not on the large scale. I just left a longer reply on this same thread about it, but the only alternative I can think of for individual sellers is eBay. But eBay is not for makers, they take a pretty big cut, the whole Paypal thing is problematic as well, and the only thing I use eBay for anymore is the odd discontinued appliance part. Sorry. I wish there were another maker’s seller space like Etsy used to be, that’d be fantastic.
I reported an item as counterfeit a week ago, it’s still an option. Not that I have much trust in those items actually being removed though
They must have put it back (under pressure!) then, because it wasn’t there last year. I actually went looking for it specifically after I read the WaPo article about Etsy scammers just to see if they’d put the option back.
Also, I just now looked, and you’re right: in the browser view, there’s now a tiny little “Report this item to Etsy” link at the very bottom of the product listing, to the lower right. It’s literally the last thing on the page.
Archive link to WaPo article: https://archive.ph/be2bk
How to report an item to Etsy: https://help.etsy.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000344568-How-to-Report-an-Item-or-Shop
EDITED TO ADD correction and links
Do you know of good alternatives?
No, I sure don’t. I wish I did.
BUT – I will say this. Depending on the product it’s pretty self-evident who the individual makers are on Etsy. If you do your research, like doing image searches, it’s also usually pretty self-evident what is mass-produced and/or counterfeit.
So I still use Etsy, but only in a very limited way, and only if I can assure myself with some level of certainty that the item I want is actually what some individual maker produced themselves.
Nothing wrong with mass-produced items if they’re not counterfeit, I just prefer not to get them through Etsy.
Cynical nerds will just tell you this is how the internet is and always was. They will tell you moderation is basically impossible. And they will go on and on about other things related to those things.
I really hate how “the internet” gets so compartmentalized. It’s a communication medium that exists in the real world. It’s not an alternate reality.
I hope we can move from expecting every platform and website to house the best and worst of humanity. But maybe it’s just the neckbeards who expect that. I hope so.
Sorry for my rant. But I deeply sympathize with the sentiment in your comment. I don’t think the internet has to be a shithole.
There’s always someone willing to make a quick buck on skirting legality.
IANAL, but my understanding is…
Generally, fanfics are in a fair-use area because they are based on another person’s copyrighted material. Therefore you cannot profit from them. That also means that the authors of fan fics have little copyright protection.
That said, if someone is selling the fics, that person is violating the copyright of the original author (but not necessarily that of the fic author).
Fanfics are 100% copyright infringement, there’s no fair use/dealings defence of them. There’s just little point for corporations to go out and enforce their copyright, fanfic authors likely don’t have much money and it’d be a PR nightmare. Obviously this equation changes when people start to profit of fan work, it’s why AO3 doesn’t allow direct links to donation pages.
there’s no fair use/dealings defence of them.
The OTW, who run AO3, would disagree with you: https://www.transformativeworks.org/faq/#faq-WhydoestheOTWbelievethattransformativeworksarelegal
That said, I’m not sure why they say ‘transformative works are legal’ rather than ‘transformative works are sometimes legal and we believe noncommercial, transformative fanworks are legal but no one has actually tested it in court and it’s unspecified in the legislation’.
because they are based on another person’s copyrighted material.
Then everything is fair-use because everything is based on another person’s copyrighted material.
if someone is selling the fics, that person is violating the copyright of the original author (but not necessarily that of the fic author).
Also not true. Copyright protects form, not content. If you publish content in another medium(for example oroginal was cartoon and you publish book), then no sane country’s court will rule against you because another medium is good proof that work is not even just modified form.
Obviously no countries’ courts are sane then, because you have literally described protected “derivative works.” See here for definition in the US Code: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/101 and see here for the copyright owner owning rights to derivative works (17 U.S. Code § 106 (2): https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106
US is not sane country
I mean, you’re not wrong, though even the US has rather lax copyright compared to some other countries.
everything is fair-use because everything is based on another person’s copyrighted material.
Of course not. There is a large amount of works in public domain.
And fictional characters, those that fan fiction typically uses, come about with the understanding that characters can be separated from the original works they were embodied in.
Copyright protects form, not content.
It protects the fictional characters themselves. If you make an oil painting of Harry Potter, it’s still a copyright violation.
Then everything is fair-use because everything is based on another person’s copyrighted material.
Lol
This is about fanfiction. There’s a HUGE difference between fanfiction and using tropes or cliches common in other media.
I’m a big fan of fanfic, I support it and consider it a serious literary genre. It’s basically the folklore of our modern times. I’m also not a fan of how extensive and restrictive copyright protection has become.
That said, I do find it amusingly ironic when fanfic authors get in a big huff about their copyright being violated.
I think there’s a difference between using pre established characters and settings vs wholesale copy pasting someone else’s entire work to sell as one’s own (or directly and solely profit off of, regardless of whether credit is given). Whether or not there is a legal distinction between the two in terms of copyright, there’s absolutely a line to be drawn on overt plagiarism.
