The country is breaking apart but I guess is more important to avoid using feminine expressions on official papers that make us look homo or something
No one here speaks Spanish or more importantly, from Latin America, eh? So-called Inclusive language sounds removed in a Latin language that has male and female names, pronouns and nouns for everything. English is not Spanish. Cultures are different. History is different.
This is why most actual Latin people from Latin America think made up BS terms like LatinX have to come from people from 1st world countries who are not only out of touch, but also, and as always, think they know better about how the rest of the world should live their own lives. Damn, the entitlement or NA.
They all BS and virtue signal about how bad ‘colonialism’ is, yet they can’t stop trying to dump their crap on everyone else. Let them do want they want. It is their country. They voted the guy in and I am not going to pretend that I know better than them. You might be surprised but 3rd world people have more serious shit to care about than outing X’s at the end of words.
Milei is nuts, but I think people are not aware how shitty Argentina has been for a while. Seems Argentinians wanted a break from their own internal crap from before, not sure if he is going to be better, but at least he is different. For the record, if I could I would never vote for him. But I am not Argentian who lobes in Argentina. Are you?
For those wondering, inflation was going to happen, Argentina was running on crazy, worsening debt for almost 20 years. He said he was going to bring austerities, he did, inflation was going to happen, either way. To blame it squarely on him, as if it was his direct fault is like blaming Obama for 9/11 or Biden for the Iraq war. It meant that Argentina had to take even worse debt if austerities did not happen. They were going to be fucked either way. The best it can be said is that they are now less fucked than what they could have been, otherwise.
Not that it should matter, but since some NA people are bound to think it, I am a Liberal, not a Con. Just not blind nor an idealogue.
Im from Latin America and I speak Spanish. The inclusive language in oficial documents, what Milei is attacks, isn’t putting X at the end of words (that nobody uses, people use e instead) but including the feminine when talking about groups of people, for example instead of saying “los trabajadores se van a joder y perder sus derechos” is saying “los trabajadores y las trabajadoras se van a joder y perder sus derechos” it’s literally just adding a couple of words to the way you talk.
I appreciate your example language. That sounds like it could be a direct quote!
If he was actually “libertario liberal” like he keeps saying, he’d allow people to use whatever type of language they want.
I guess he’s not an anarcho capitalist, but a fucking conservative slimesack and all round crazy person wielding a chainsaw and talking to dogs for political advice (NB : what I just said can be fact checked and verified, and is not a joke)
a fucking conservative slimesack
Yes, that is exactly what ancaps and libertarians turns out to be when in any power. It’s an Actually Existing Libertarianism.
Eh. Politically viable libertarians make a shitload of concessions to reach that viability. Dude’s views on women’s rights would make most Libertarians/ancaps I know refuse to vote for him.
If only they could make the compromises on their views on economic liberty instead of personal freedoms
Man, why can’t people allow other people to do whatever they want with their own body? If you want me to call you Turbs, the sly cat from furryland, you got it, buddy.
Conservatives want a government so small that they can fit into a uterus. For someone who claims wants to reduce the size of the government, he sure likes going on crusades against how people express themselves.
Meanwhile on the economic side:
It doesn’t matter to me, but I understand that the prohibition applies to official documents (which frankly seems fine to me because they have to be as neutral as possible) and nothing more.
It’s not that for saying “TODES” in an AFIP department they’re going to cut you off.
Basically, you can talk like a mental retard if you want, but in official communication a certain degree of professionalism and correctness is expected.
In the same way that an official document should never say “tipo asi como ke ah re que la ley esta que zakamos esta ree picada perro, se prohibe la letra EEE” If you want to talk like that, you donyou, in official settings, NO.
The best thing is that the 2,000 departments of the state stop spending on “educational” resources. Don’t forget that there is gender management secretary, which is 50 people per entity because it is required some type of gender graduate to “authorize” that the communication is correctly following the norms on a gender focus.
Well, no, now it is not necessary to spend a fortune on “educational” resources.
Waste of money like few others
But muh freedomz!
Don’t take “freedom” as an absolute of “ah, so I can do whatever I want ña ña”. The regulations still exist. In this case because the official documents are written in the official language. Not with idioms, not with slang, not with emojis, not with cartoons, not with colloquial language.
And that doesn’t make you “less free.”
If someone in public administration wants to write text message style documentation? They can’t, is that going against freedom? No.
But it is not prohibiting freedom in a private sphere, it is in official documents. If tomorrow at work I start writing technical documentation in Esperanto, they will put a bullet in my ass.
So, no brother, you can’t write public documents however you want, because everyone has to understand you. It’s a job. Inclusive language promotes a political agenda that the voters of this government do not share.
The big problem Kirchnerists have behind this is that inclusive language ended up becoming Kirchnerist language. It became something of the party’s identity. If the intention had really been to change the way people express themselves, the strategy of sticking it to specifically this party didn’t work. They should have sought followers across the political spectrum.
Inclusive language is the dumbest fucking thing anyone tried to do to the Spanish language. For those not familiar, Spanish is a gendered language, words ending in -o are male and words ending in -a are female (not a steadfast rule there are tons of exceptions). “Academics” with too much time want to change words to a gender neutral ending -e. And it sounds so fucking stupid.
Spanish speakers could have dropped all the final vowels and basically speak Catalan “los ciudadanos” > “els ciutadans”, easy! two problems (gender inclusivity and secession of Catalonia) solved at once…/s
But the Catalan articles are still gendered
What puzzles me is that many IALs/conlangs based on the Romance languages (Interlingua, Elefen, etc.) insist on having a definite article (either la or le) when it could as well be dropped.
Tsk, tsk, this willow wants to get rid of THE definite article, but they’re too afraid to even say it.
Yeah, some Catalan politicians say “els ciutadans i les ciutadanes”, much like some Spanish politicians say “los ciudadanos y las ciudadanas”. Romance languages tend to have gendered nouns (and by extension articles). 🤷♂️
You are right, I don’t speak Catalan and I was trying to downplay a little on a topic which is dramatic (not for the language per se but for the people who can be hurt by it). Auxlangs, being designed for a purpose, could make some little more effort towards inclusiveness. And that would be one of the few reason to prefer them to natlangs (e.g. for institutional communications).
That’s not as bad. In Arabic it is worse. Yet somehow we try to make it work despite that the default is male in Arabic, and the only the dual (not singular or plural) can be non-gendered and only sometimes.
As a native Spanish speaker, inclusive sounds a little goofy, but overall seems pretty harmless to me.
I guess the same about Polish, this language is incredibly gendered and while the neutral gender does exist, it’s a rump of it because it’s only used for some inanimate objects, some animals and small babies, it is also not used at all in 1st nor 2nd person - so the mere usage of neutral form for a person automatically implies lack of agency and is a grave insult (also it became specifically transphobic insult thank to few jerks in the parliament). Language also default to masculine in case of unknown gender. So if a Pole randomly calls anyone “him” in the internet it’s not necessarily purposeful misgendering, it’s just how language works while English would default to neutral form - it’s also one of the more common mistake in Polish translations of English books.
But even here some efforts has been made.
I moved to the states at a young age. I really love Spanish, and I especially love the Argentinian version of it. This inclusive language butchers the beauty of it in a lot of ways. I guess when you live there you take it for granted
Of the inclusivity approaches the Spanish language has, the -e ending is the least used and promoted, others being duplication (ciudadanas y ciudadanos) or paraphrasis (ciudadanía).
That makes sense, people that talk with the -e endings sound like they are having a stroke
I agree its stupid. But its even more stupit to try and ban it.
Probably, it’s a waste of energy
yeah, typical idiotic response to this debate, defending the idea that a chair is a man.
No it’s a woman, La Silla. Lmao. But origins of grammatical gender are related to the function of the word, and not related to sex. I forgot the specifics. Some languages have(or had) three ‘genders’ for their language.
Counterpoint: El asiento. Chairs are actually gender fluid.
Shieeee
It doesn’t really matter, it’s a stupid and shitty function that is at best vestigial, and at worst, not even consistent.
There’s a lot of things you can about Turkish being a shitty language, but at least vovel harmony is always consistent, and once you get enough language exposure, you can guess the correct mutations of suffixes correctly.
Also, you’re helping me prove my point that despite actualmente aprendiendo español, usandolo casi diariamente, ya es casi impossible para recordar las reglas absurdas de generos de objectos cotidianas fuera de contexto.
EDIT :
origins of grammatical gender are related to the function of the word
If this were true/functionally correct[1] you could teach newcomers to the language the function sets and how they are grouped so that people could reason their way though new objects and which gender they should have. It’s not even consistent with the ending of words (el agua/la mano)
It’s literally a vestigial feature. A proper language with prescriptivism would have gotten rid of it already, like … French? but they have lots of prescriptivism and shitty genders. Eugh.
Sidenote : The RAE are a lazy bunch of fucks.
[1] : it doesn’t matter that the origin of grammatical gender is a true statement if the language continued to work like that, which it doesn’t do anymore. The case can one of the following :
it is true, the origin of grammatical gender is true, and it continues to work with functionality of words determining the gender
it is true, the origin of grammatical gender is true, but it no longer works with the functionality of words determining the gender << our shitty reality, probably , but it’s moot point
it is false, the origin of grammatical gender is was not related to the function of the word, , the functionality of words do not determine their gender
it is false, the origin of grammatical gender is was not related to the function of the word, , but the functionality of words do determine their gender
Counterpoint: gendered languages are fucking stupid. A table does not have a gender, why should its word?
The only advantage I’ve ever heard of is if you’re referring to a person, like if there’s two teachers, one male and one female, you can say profesor or profesora to indicate which one you’re talking about, but that seems like a very small advantage compared to the downsides (always having to say niños y niñas, for example, or remembering whether a hospital is masculine or feminine, or how you should gender loanwords).
Gender in words have to do with grammar, not sex. It is pretty much a classification. Other languages instead of using masculine/feminine use strong/weak. Again nothing to do with sex but grammar and which group they belong.
