He was responding to a question about the cancellation of his exhibition by the Lisson Gallery in London in November following comments on social media referencing the Israel-Hamas conflict.
His post, which was subsequently deleted, suggested the “sense of guilt around the persecution of the Jewish people” had been transferred and used against the Arab world.
Referring to his own family’s exile when he was one year old, the activist said: "I grew up within this heavy political censorship.
“I realise now, today in the West, you are doing exactly the same.”
He drew parallels with the disastrous purge under Mao, which took China to the brink of anarchy.
Criticising the suspension of two New York University professors for comments related to Gaza, Ai said: "This is really like a cultural revolution, which is really trying to destroy anybody who have different attitudes, not even a clear opinion.
Ai’s art often addresses political issues in China and he has frequently criticised Beijing’s record on human rights and democracy.
There is plenty that is wrong with the US/West but losing a private job/gig and getting a post deleted from social media is not the same as the government jailing you.
Except he’s allowed to say that…
Have you read the constitution of the PRC before?
If everything in a constitution must be how it is in real life, does that also cover the US constitution?
I am allowing 2 arguments one where we assume both are followed and one where we assume nither are followed, you may pick your path, I have found usualy americans defult to the US constitution being mostly followed but any forgin “evil” country not even looking at theirs
The US constitution is more-or-less followed; courts largely try to interpret intent and meaning–or originalism, depending on the judge in question, and it’s mostly followed, eventually. On the other hand, despite what the Chinese constitution says about the right to free speech, assembly, etc., it’s quite clear that there is official state censorship regarding certain subjects, and peaceful assembly in support of, say, democracy will result in people being run down by tanks. In the US, you can accuse a sitting president of sexual assault, and actually file a civil suit against the president, and end up winning a few hundred million for defamation. On the other hand, if you are an international tennis star in China, and you accuse a party official of sexual assault, you will likely disappear for several months before emerging for very limited public appearances to apologize before “retiring” from tennis. If you aren’t famous, odds are pretty good that you just don’t reappear.
You can argue that peaceful demonstrations in the US are also subjected to police repression–see also BLM–and I’d agree. On the other hand, I would say the number of people killed by state actors in the US at demonstrations usually numbers between zero and the low single digits, while the death toll at Tianmen square alone is believed to have been tens of thousands. The Kent State massacre was likely the largest number of peaceful protesters killed by police in the last 75 years or so in the US.
I’m not American
Ok? I usualy get the “pleasure” of arguing with americans … usualy in real life" so are we going with constitutions are words on paper or infaliable documents?
I mean obviously they’re not real life
With that Established I posit, that the Quality of life is SIgnificantly better, in the Peoples Republic of China
Well, the US constitution does explicitly allow slavery - and the Us prison-industrial complex certainly does apply that in real life.
I think we were talking about positive stuff. It’s probably easier for people to accept that the bad stuff is real
Why? Does that change what Mao did?
Well first wonderful moving the goal posts, as the reason I bring up the PRC constitution is because “Article 35 Citizens of the People’s Republic of China shall enjoy freedom of speech, the press, assembly, association, procession and demonstration.” so they have the same right to speech that you do in the United States with the same garentee, If you want to tell me its only as good as the paper its written on, I will ask the same thing about the US.
Second, what did Mao do, kick the Facists off the mainland? Kill landlords (who had it comeing, even ask the founder of capitalism), create a nation that would be the largest force for lifting people out of poverty? Please elaberate your crimes that the goal post has now moved to … given it is not just freedom of speech any more
I’m not here to engage in an argument, only to point out that this:
so they have the same right to speech that you do in the United States with the same garentee, If you want to tell me its only as good as the paper its written on, I will ask the same thing about the US.
Is fucking idiotic. You’re trying to argue that if one country has a constitution that it ignores but uses as a front for people like you to point at and say ‘china’s great and has free speech’ it invalidates every other country’s (or maybe you’re just arguing against the US constitutional right to free speech?) constitution because it’s also written in paper. Absolutely idiotic.
The US does not follow their own bill of rights worth shit, and do you mind showing me where the PRC violates their own constitution please?
The claim was “censorship in West exactly the same as Mao’s China.”
You’re saying Mao wasn’t so bad? Then I guess there’s no complaint to be made here.
I am saying that the West is significantly worse, that being said, I am also not going to say the PRC is perfect… just sigificantly better than the west. I was only bringing up the fact that when you mentioned “In the west you can critisize your own government” the same right applies in the PRC… Heck the PRC has more political parties than here in the US.
The same right did not apply to China under Mao.
The PRC constitution was ratified in 1982.
Mao died in 1976.
Do you think maybe the rights guaranteed in a document ratified in 1982 might be different to the rights before that document was ratified?
No, you don’t. You’re just muddying the waters. Probably intentionally.
They did update it after Mao died, yes but the freedom of speech was listed in the origial.
I do think that the PRC is better than the west, and it does infact have more political parties. however my responce was to your claim that their you can critisize the government in the west but not in China, a patently false claim.
I do not know what you are talking about mudying the waters I assure you it is not intenrional, however it was not me who has moved the goal posts … geez 4 times now?
But you moved the goal post? The first one to bring up the modern prc in this chain of comments was you. The goal post was Mao before hand.
His post, which was subsequently deleted,
which was subsequently deleted
…by him.
Only to repeat it again on tv. While crying that he isn’t allowed to say what he was just allowed to say.
😱😱😱
…which was then reported on by Western media and he wasn’t thrown into a prison camp.
So again, he’s allowed to say that.
Ah yes cancelling artists livelihoods and censoring them is entirely different.
We’re lucky America doesn’t run any torture camps where they lock up people without trial.
We’re lucky America doesn’t run any torture camps where they lock up people without trial.
Which you are free to criticize and expose.
Yes we agree it’s wrong, but that doesn’t make the comparison to a totalitarian system right.I find it very interesting that OP seems to believe that the West and America are the same things.
I think Norway would be interested to find out they weren’t in the West. Not to mention Canada.
the West and America are the same things.
To be fair to a large extend it is with regard to international affairs. We have many agreements with USA, that are very much dominated by USA.
Norway is in NATO, which is clearly a US dominated organisation, because they constitute more than half the defense capability of NATO.
In much the same way, USA is dominating in the west, because it’s the biggest economy and has the biggest military to enforce their policies, which is largely accepted by allies.
Trump is trying to destroy this entirely, to benefit Putin and China, I think we need to accept our international cooperation with USA, and hope it lasts a while longer.PS: I’m from Denmark.
By the way, they are now claiming that Denmark also has censorship levels at the same level as Mao’s.
Yeah, but they’re talking about things like anti-BDS laws and the way the U.S. treats prisoners. I’m pretty sure Denmark doesn’t have anti-BDS laws and I know Denmark treats its prisoners much better than either the U.S. or China.
Basically, all of their criticisms are U.S.-centric.
I’ve had multiple run ins with OP before.
Obviously OP has plenty of nasty views (eg. thinks Zionists control all western media), but is also incredibly ill informed (like thinking Sudan used to be a French colony) and almost certainly functionally illiterate(posts links to articles which say the exact opposite of what OP thinks they do). Also almost certainly upvotes their own comments with alts.
The reason I think this, is because in the past, OP has mistakenly quoted something someone else has said as a reply to my comment, then failed entirely to grasp that they’re replying to a different comment even when I’ve said as much. These nonsensical comments still got upvotes, which makes no sense even if people are very partisan.
The only reason I don’t think he’s a useful idiot, is because he’s so ill informed and obnoxious, that if anything he’s actually hurting the people he thinks he’s supporting.
Then again, maybe I’m harsh and he’s just some dumb kid.
Well they don’t seem to know what ‘exactly the same’ means, so functionally illiterate is a good guess.
MFW someone says you can expose and criticize them
We’re lucky America doesn’t run any torture camps where they lock up people without trial.
Which one has he been put in because of what he said? Please name the facility.
I debunked your entire point with evidence and you’re pivoting.
Address this line:
We’re lucky America doesn’t run any torture camps where they lock up people without trial.
My entire point is that he is able to say what he wants to say without being thrown into one of those camps.
Thus it is not exactly the same.
You seem to have a strange idea in your head that it is impossible to criticize America (he said the West as a whole, by the way) without comparing it to one of history’s worst dictatorships.
Believe it or not, it’s not a contest. You can criticize both and still admit one was worse.
Either that, or you know nothing about 20th century Chinese history.
Ah the enlightened take where censorship only applies if people get thrown in jail.
Nevermind them being deplatformed and their livelihood being taken away
West has to look more democratic than China to keep the show mean “democracy” going so of course we allow more than China, but news is still being censored and journalists are being silenced in the West as well
propaganda machines got you thinking otherwise
has to be two teams each on “opposing sides” to get the citizens rallied in the right camp and thinking
news is still being censored and journalists are being silenced
As I told OP, this is not a contest. You can criticize the West without saying it is exactly the same as Mao’s China. It is not. Because if it was, you would never have heard Ai WeiWei say so. They would have been put in a “re-education” camp long ago. And even if they somehow were able to get that message out, not a single news outlet would report on it.
In this case, News Corp is reporting on it. In other words, an outlet owned by Rupert Murdoch is making the claim that you can’t get away with having the freedom to say what you want in the West.
If that were true, Rupert Murdoch wouldn’t still be going strong at 92 with a vast media empire that is able to get away with lying constantly in order to be critical of the governments of the countries his news outlets are in, he would be dead.
Hah! We’ll just pretend to respect his rights by respecting his rights! He’ll never suspect it!
TFW free speech
Yes the independent artists and journalist Snowden, who couldn’t display his art exhibition because of government censorship. That’s a perfectly reasonable comparison. /s
Oh wait… He wasn’t an artist or journalist or even independent, he was a government contractor, who had signed not to reveal what he was working with.
Yes it sucks that whistleblowers that reveal things that are relevant, often become victims. But we are at least free to discuss what he revealed, and air our opinion and even protest against politicians and policies that defend the system when it’s doing wrong.So far, OP has claimed that censorship in the west, as a whole, is exactly the same as Mao’s China because of Richard Snowden, U.S. jails, anti-BDS policies and “deplatforming.”
Weirdly, OP has not been put in a re-education camp for saying such things.
I had no idea Mao was so lenient.
He was a really nice guy, who just needed to kill a few people now and then. 😜
Landlords unironicly deserve it
so do facists
I have no idea what that means, but I assume, since you posted the article, that you agree with the person whose message got out in the Western media and who was not thrown into a “re-education camp” that censorship is just the same as what Mao did. Because his tweet got deleted. Correct?
I have no idea what that means
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden
He leaked intelligence and fled the country to avoid detention.
“Man who fled country after commiting crimes to expose other crimes is a good example about how you can’t criticize governments” is a blistering hot take, and one I’m not surprised the OP is making, considering how ignorant they are in other replies.
Ah, I didn’t recognize him from the photo.
So no reason for OP to have posted his picture since Weiwei didn’t leak any intelligence.
It’s even worse. Western censorship and spying are very strong, just like China. However many in the west have fallen for all the western propaganda without critical thinking. In China, they get propaganda fed to them as well but being less isolationist they seek out more information even if they don’t say it. Whereas Americans specifically will shout propaganda they heard and didn’t even understand from the rooftops and not care to educate themselves at all.
In China, they get propaganda fed to them as well but being less isolationist
Ah yes, the great firewall, the epitome of free speech and globalism.
Americans believe that racism ended because Rosa Parks sat on the back of a bus. And that Nelson Mandela ended Apartheid with a hunger strike in prison.
The Chinese and Russians are jealous of how brainwashed Americans are
this guy has never spoken to an American
Because reading an article has proven really difficult for some, here’s some lines from the article:
So basically I was talking on Twitter, just answering someone’s question. Normally you can talk, or whatever you like. You can joke, you can make fun, you can, you know, just give your opinions.
But today I see so many people by giving their basic opinions, they get fired, they get censored. This has become very common."
Criticising the suspension of two New York University professors for comments related to Gaza, Ai said: "This is really like a cultural revolution, which is really trying to destroy anybody who have different attitudes, not even a clear opinion.
So I think that this is such a pity, that it happened in the West, so broadly in universities, in media, in every location. In universities or political sector - everywhere - you cannot talk about the truth.
In 2011, Ai was arrested at Beijing Capital International Airport and detained for 81 days. He left China in 2015 and has not returned since.
The guy who was arrested and detained for 3 months by the Chinese govt is using his freedom of speech to complain how the west has just as little freedom of speech?
Yes because now that he’s saying things the west doesn’t like he’s getting censored too.
This might be really hard to understand but China also has useful idiots which shill for them online by hating on America and get censored when they start asking too many questions
Do you honestly not see the difference between getting your post removed or account banned, and getting thrown into jail indefinitely? This is just another ridiculous ‘both sides’ argument which ignores that one side is multiple orders of magnitude worse
Post removed? You mean people get fired from their job and censored from all platforms by targeted israeli slandering campaigns?
And… That’s worse than the govt throwing you in jail at their whim and fancy? Dude, fuck Israel and what they’re doing in Palestine, but this is a ridiculous argument.
Yes because then there’s morons online being stupid enough to think the west has free speech and even defend it.
This person is just a troll.
He drew parallels with the disastrous purge under Mao, which took China to the brink of anarchy.
Mao is an anarchist now? Has somebody told the tankies?
his name is ai. he literally makes ai art
If that’s the case then he should have no issue discussing Tianamen Square?
you’re going to get that one moron who claims that event was some bullshit failed color revolution
As much as an issue as saying that Hamas didn’t commit any rape on Oct7 which is factually true.
Have people had an issue saying that?
Yes. In fact multiple of my posts in the past from MondoWeiss and The Grayzone debunking many of the initial rape accusations even on Lemmy have been removed by mods for supposedly being “propaganda”.
All while allowing multiple posts from Zionist outlets such as New York Times filled with propaganda to manufacture consent for Genocide were allowed the front page. Of course, all without a shred of evidence.
Even the mods here are very complicit in censorship for israel and they still are removing many Pro-Palestinian media and even from NGO’s such as EuroMed-Monitor without any credible reason.
Now four months into the Genocide everyone is starting to realize that the rape accusations were completely false it was manufactured consent all along.
I was thinking some government repercussions rather than just internet mod drama
Oh sure.
Many people got fired from their jobs for “anti semitism” including teachers in universities as mentioned in the article.
And there are many others such as soccer players and film makers that lost their jobs for speaking out against israel’s Genocide.
What did those who got fired say, was it the thing you mentioned?
watch as he desperately reaches for straws!!
His “art” looks like it’s just him going places and taking pictures of flipping the bird at some landscapes? Edgy
being reductive about any process is easy.
-
Olympic medalists just run really quick in one direction
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The Godfather movies are just a bunch of people talking about fake stuff
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Your partner/child is just a collection of cells responding to stimulus.
-
The Hubble telescope is just a tube with mirrors in
It renders any conversation pointless.
-
He was hailed for criticizing China for being an oppressive regime. Very brave such hero.
Then he started criticizing israel and they cancelled all his exhibits.
As reported on by Sky News.
Do you still think all Western media, like SkyNews, are Zionist controlled Linkerbaan?
I seem to remember you making that claim and getting upset when I suggested that not all western media are controlled by Israeli Jews and their allies.
The fact that OP is trusting what Rupert Murdoch’s outlet has to say about this shows you that they either don’t understand where their allegiances lie or do understand and are pretending not to be right-wing.
I remember backing up my claims with evidence of graphs and NLP studies which you conveniently ignored and then left. Maybe go back and read those.
Are you now claiming that the Zionist movement does not consist of Israeli Jews?
No no. They’re ‘entirely unrelated’ don’t ya know?
Honestly, it’d be funny if the guy wasn’t spreading such icky views.
Yes the majority if Zionists are not Jewish this is a well known fact. In the words of Genocide Joe:
You don’t have to be a Jew to be a Zionist, and I’m a Zionist
And in the wise words of Ilan Pappe describing the white surpremacist Zionist movement:
“Most Zionists don’t believe that God exists, but they do believe that he promised them Palestine”
I remember backing up my claims with evidence of graphs and NLP studies which you conveniently ignored and then left. Maybe go back and read those.
Not me. Probably replied to someone else who was critical of you claiming all western media are controlled by the Zionists.
I’ll report your comment for anti-semitism.
You did that last time.
Here’s the thing Linkerbaan. Paraphrasing your claim that Israeli Jews and their allies (the Zionists) control the media does not make me an anti-semite.
You really should take a long hard mirror, instead of perpetuating nasty anti-semitic tropes.
Especially when you just posted a Sky News article, a media organisation you claim to think is controlled by the ‘’‘Zionists’‘’.
Paraphrasing your claim that Israeli Jews and their allies (the Zionists) control the media does not make me an anti-semite
Yes it does. You are slandering Jews.
Also have a fun read https://theintercept.com/2024/01/09/newspapers-israel-palestine-bias-new-york-times/
You are slandering Jews.
By paraphrasing what you said? Almost self-aware.
Here’s the thing. Unlike you, I don’t think Israeli Jews and their allies control Western media. That’s you. But hey, feel free to abuse that report button. Sure the mods have nothing better to do.
Also have a fun read theintercept.com/…/newspapers-israel-palestine-bi…
You’re quoting a Western media article which is critical of pro-Israel bias, to prove that Western media are all controlled by the Zionists.
I mean…
Are you sure you’re not parrotting Zionist propaganda Linkerbaan? Netenyahu likes to paint any criticism of Israel as anti-semitism, and you certainly aren’t helping the Palestinian cause by going on about how western media are all controlled by Zionists.
Referring to his own family’s exile when he was one year old, the activist said: "I grew up within this heavy political censorship.
So he was already grown up at 1 year old? What a moron.
Guy is basically just a western borderline tankie.
