I’d like to know other non-US citizen’s opinions on your health care system are when you read a story like this. I know there are worse places in the world to receive health care, and better. What runs through your heads when you have a medical emergency?
A little background on my question:
My son was having trouble breathing after having a cold for a couple of days and we needed to stop and take the time to see if our insurance would be accepted at the closest emergency room so we didn’t end up with a huge bill (like 2000$-5000$). This was a pretty involved ~10 minute process of logging into our insurance carrier, and unsuccessfully finding the answer there. Then calling the hospital and having them tell us to look it up by scrolling through some links using the local search tool on their website. This gave me some serious pause, what if it was a real emergency, like the kind where you have no time to call and see if the closest hospital takes your insurance.
Honestly? I think Americans are by and large bad people for not doing anything about it.
Americans seem to be huge on politics, they talk about all these things. But they do nothing, just just come up with excuses.
Change your voting system, change your laws. The power is in the hands of the voters.
The power is in the hands of the voters.
That’s a really hot take. Tell me, who should I vote for to bring about these magical changes I have the power to effect?
I don’t know, how can you possibly expect me to answer that. What options do you have as your local representative? Maybe run if there is no one good enough.
Incidentally, ranked choice voting was on the ballot where I live in 2020. I actually did spend some time trying to spread the word and drum up support. It didn’t pass, so we’re right back where we started, and I live in one of the most liberal states in the country.
Our state senators, representatives and local government are actually pretty alright, as American government goes, but the fact of the matter is that the country is being held back by a tyranny of the minority and those of us who don’t live in the handful of battleground states that define elections don’t really have much power to influence that.
Getting any sort of federal-level change into effect is basically an impossibility, because (it is my view that) corruption is so rampant. We’d have to oust the majority of the House and Senate and replace them with reasonable people to have any chance of getting the votes for something like that. At this point all we can really do is hope to hold off the fascist wave that’s building.
Maybe run if there is no one good enough.
Gonna fund that? Pay for their time off?
Crowd source if need be? No other country, even poorer ones have this issue?
What the hell you guys on about.
I don’t think you understand how it works in the US, nor how much time/effort which the working poor simply do not have. There’s a reason why most in politics are rich there.
Rich people in other countries want universal healthcare.
Okay?
The political party I think you want is on the other side of the current democrats. Ideally, as a nation, you’ve gotta go left so hard that the current dems would split into right and left. It is a daunting task, and a number of elections in the making…
I honestly think it is too far gone now for it to be turned with only elections. The power is too concentrated and the methods of control are too refined. At minimum, I think it will require mass “illegal” protests along with strong voting. As a bystander in another country, I fear for you all.
you’ve gotta go left so hard that the current dems would split into right and left.
That’s great in theory, but if we do that, we’re giving the government to the GOP in the interim, and they’ve made it quite clear that if they get power, they don’t intend to give it up again. Not to mention, the effects of this would extend well beyond our borders. I’ve advocated very strongly for exactly this sort of action in the past, but now is simply not the time.
Right, and the way things are going with “states rights” it sounds like the GOP are already going for family planning and birth control with Alabama’s Supreme Court ruling that fertilized embryos are “people”.
You guys need a revolution.
Or at least someone out there breaking politicians legs so they understand what healthcare means.
Best guess, the left of the democrats in the primaries, for a start.
It’s not that you lack politicians who agree with the changes that are needed, it’s that they are seen as less electable than the guy who did tons of fraud and at least one confirmed rape, somehow. I don’t know that Americans are “bad people”, but the fact that these common sense positions aren’t the default, centrist view across both major parties is baffling.
It’s a clumsy way to put it, but it’s not wrong that the lack of universal consensus around these things in the US is confusing and unreasonable.
The amount of propaganda we’re subject to here is just astounding. News programs, print media, billboards, web articles, everywhere. Just looking at the way a given issue is framed completely differently in different states or cities or from different news sources is pretty eye opening. That, combined with rampant gerrymandering, makes it really hard to blame voters for voting against their self-interest; we’re just being bombarded with media designed to make us think, act and vote a certain way. I’m completely sure my own views are influenced by it, too, to be clear - I’m not claiming to be some pillar of purity.
It’s not that Americans are ‘bad people’ any more than the people in any other country are. It’s just that a relatively few voices are given very large platforms and basically dictate the discourse.
Yeah, ok.
I don’t want to speak for the OP, but… I’m guessing that’s what they’re saying.
I mean, this issue is not on the ballot elsewhere. Even conservatives who are actively trying to dismantle public health care won’t dare suggest that they want less public health care. At most they’ll tell you they found ways to invest more and then turn around and give that money to private managers. You certainly broke through the propaganda. I don’t think I’ve spoken to an American anywhere who has made a case for the current health care system. Polls suggest this issue, among other “aren’t Americans weird” stuff are wildly impopular with the actual population.
But I also constantly hear from Americans that it’s impossible to turn it around, that candidates who support these common sense moves are unelectable and that there is nothing they could ever do about it.
That part is what I don’t get. I mean, I’m familiar with elections not going my way, it happens to everybody, but holy crap. There’s a reason why this is not on the ballot elsewhere. You wouldn’t need an election to figure this out. Even in countries with the bare minimum of democratic guarantees and no money you would have the mother of all endless riots under these circumstances.
Me, personally, I’m not so much judgemental of the American public as I am baffled at their defeatism and conformism.
You certainly broke through the propaganda.
But I also constantly hear from Americans that it’s impossible to turn it around, that candidates who support these common sense moves are unelectable and that there is nothing they could ever do about it.
Have we broken through the propaganda, though? Shit, just look at the pushback around Obamacare (which while certainly not ideal was the best public option health care we’ve had available in my lifetime) - there was so much negative press that people just didn’t have any idea how it was actually benefitting them. There’s an old Facebook thread that gets posted from time to time with someone railing against Obamacare while not even realizing they were using it to get coverage.
Even in countries with the bare minimum of democratic guarantees and no money you would have the mother of all endless riots under these circumstances.
I think the biggest thing that a lot of folks from outside the US - especially those in Europe - don’t understand is just how big this country is. We are around 96% as large as the whole of Europe, with about half the population. The BLM protests was the most widespread activism we’ve managed that I can remember, and that was squashed pretty easily. It’s incredibly difficult to get a significant part of the US to coordinate on anything activism-related, and that’s really what it would take to make a difference, I think.
It’s not
NGL, I was offended at first but I’m not sure you’re wrong.
There’s honestly this constant apathy that the vast majority of people take towards politics. Then some of those people are simultaneously apathetic and regular voters. It’s kind of like a fan of Ferrari that doesn’t really pay attention to Ferrari or its competition; they’re just sure their car is the best.
Then there are those that are completely crazy.
Then there are those that actually pay attention.
It’s gotten worse the past few years because instead of getting more people that paid attention we’ve gotten more apathetic but yet somehow passionate Ferrari lovers.
That plus people don’t seem to understand Congress is where stuff actually gets done. There’s so much hoopla about the president but Congress is where the focus should be. Way too many people have no idea what their reps are doing.
Congress is where stuff actually gets done.
Since when?
Yea I didn’t write it in the politest way but I was going more for directness than anything.
I think knowing the problem is an important starting point.
People got shot at and died for things like the 5 day work week. But now people just think universial healthcare is beyond their abilities. I haven’t heard 1 story from America about a universial healthcare protest. Maybe they exist but not to the level of other things.
If it really mattered to the people I think they should do something.
People have been convinced that their votes don’t matter, protests don’t matter, etc etc etc
“They’re both the same” (in reference to parties) is the extent of most people’s political sense.
It’s also one of those things where there are enough safety nets and things that for most people it’s never really that bad. I don’t know anyone personally that’s actually lost everything from medical debt. I know it’s a possibility and that’s scary… I even know some people that are on every aid program out there basically but those programs are paying out the thousands of dollars in monthly medical bills (i.e. in the instances I know the system actually “works” on some level albeit uncomfortably and with a lot of stress).
To put things into context for someone who doesn’t live here … car crashes, cancer, heart attacks, and other rare “inescapable” things like that are all much much more prevalent than crazy medical debt, getting shot, or going homeless.
It’s not a dystopia … most people are living at least decent lives. That’s kind of the problem, it’s not bad enough for an overwhelming majority of people to actually care.
That leaves some number of people who actually care for the sake of others and some number of people that care for their own sakes to deal with the problems and the propaganda that influences the (mostly) apathetic faction. The people at the bottom of the whole thing are also in the worst possible position to do anything about it because their time and credibility is ultimately judged and scarce when it comes to doing things like going out and convincing people to vote in their favor.
Most of the time we don’t think about it, because anything medical often comes with its own stress, so just thinking about that is front of mind.
It’s only after the dust settles and we’re all back home and safe that we might say something like “whew glad that’s over! Can you imagine if we had to worry about money on top of that?”
Truly once you’re used to single payer, the American alternative seems like lunacy. I cannot imagine the stress of combining some if life’s biggest medical decisions with financial considerations
I’d go on but my socials timer is about to go
I didn’t read the article, but I read your story, OP. Your situation sounds shitty. As a Canadian, we take our kid to the doc when we feel it’s necessary. We live in a rural community and we don’t have a family doctor, so that usually means a trip to the ER, but we consider the cost in time (ie, how many hours will I have I take off work), rather than money.
I think it would be fair to say that we take our kids to the doc too often. I’m not proud of that, but I’ll happily pay taxes for other parents to do the same.
Having to think about price when your boy is having difficulty breathing sounds dystopian.
If you feel you need to take them, it’s not too often.
I agree wholeheartedly. That’s why I’m happy my taxes pay for me (and others) to hit up their doc.
Same story here in Australia.
That said our hospitals are in a bad state post covid and needs a lot of TLC
American here, we have amassed more wealth than Rome at its peak, yet a disgusting number of our citizens live in third world conditions. Another disgusting amount of people live in relative comfort, but also in impossible debt that threatens them daily. They will be homeless soon, and they know it.
Our wealth inequality is worse than France before the Revolution, and it increases constantly. The wealthy don’t care. They just want more. They’ll burn the entire fucking planet to ash if it makes them a little more profit.
And Americans pay their utility bills with credit cards. And their grocery bills with credit cards. Their wages go to rent and booze/smoke to get by. Look at the mental health numbers in America and factor in the people worried about getting fired if they admit they’re struggling and ask for help. Factor in the ones who don’t have health insurance and can’t even ask for the help they need.
It’s a fucking nightmare here. And it’s getting worse every day. Trump is going to win for a reason.
That was an appalling wrong turn at the end there.
I didn’t say I was happy about it. People are desperate. They’re going to vote for chaos knowingly, because the status quo has become unbearable, and the Democrats have decided that pretending there isn’t a problem is a good campaign strategy.
Exactly. Cue the accelerationists.
BLM was the largest continued protest in American history. Democrats took a knee on the capital steps and changed a street name in DC. And that’s it.
I’ve been told since 2008 the recession is over. the news story ≠ real life. Idk anybody any better off today than they were in 2008. Everyone’s a bad week from homelessness. 99% of Americans, with 2 educated working full time adults do not earn the purchasing power of just one of their grandfather’s.
And the people are seeeeeeeething. We are a nation full of veterans and cosplaytriots, with more guns than people. The rich are naive to think they’ll survive the purge, all that needs to be said is ‘keep what you kill’ and the gene pool will be bleached.
I don’t even blame the accelerationists. Change doesn’t occur gradually or thru voting. Change happens in a pen stroke, under duress from public dissent. As it always has. Incrementalism is just the rich whittling our rights away, the rights paid for in our ancestors blood. A whole lot of good men died for the 8hr day, the 40hr work week, to ensure machinery got physically disconnected before servicing.
Liberals are corporatists conciliatory to change, but they’ll never lead change because its the right thing to do. Their morality is making money, and that’s it. That’s why they lose, cuz they stand for nothing. Puppets to profits, merely a meat shield to deflect the owning class it’s proper hatred.
We haven’t amassed shit. The wealthy have stolen it all.
The US healthcare system has provided me with lots of entertainment value via John Oliver’s Last Week Tonight. I like it for that
For real though, despite being a software engineer who could find a very lucrative job in the US in a heartbeat, there’s no way in hell I’ll ever even remotely consider it, and the healthcare system is one of the reasons.
As a software engineer, you’d likely get a well paying job that included better health insurance than most people get. Also you’d be more likely to be able to afford the gaps that would still exist. You would not be affected by half these horror stories
Not OP, but living in the system is supporting the system so I prefer to just live somewhere else. Going to the States for vacation is plenty to experience the cool things
Everytime, I read a horror story about US healthcare, I am like can’t be the norm, it should be a made up clickbait article based on an exception
Please US friends, tell me you have a decent coverage.
Moreover, everytime I read about before insurance prices it doesn’t compute. How can an US doctor charge like 10 times the prices on our side of the pond ?
How can an US doctor charge like 10 times the prices on our side of the pond ?
There’s an unspoken assumption that when doctors quote a price, the insurance companies will widdle that down to a fraction of that amount when they pay out, so if a procedure actually costs $X.00, doctors will bill the insurance for $X * Y, so insurance actually ends up paying what it actually costs.
The side effect is that we pay co-pays or deductibles or non-100% coverage amounts based on what insurance was billed, not what the procedure actually cost. It’s actually cheaper in some cases (especially with regards to medications) to not use insurance because then, we’ll get billed what it actually cost, not the grossly inflated amount, and if our coverage is only, say, 50% for a given procedure, or if we have a co-pay on medication, we end up paying less. Meanwhile we’re still paying the insurance companies for the coverage we’re not taking advantage of. The whole system is fucked beyond belief. We know it, we just can’t do anything about it.
“Vote for the politicians who want to fix it!” only works if they actually do want to fix it, and will follow through if elected.
No, it’s not clickbait, sorry :/ I just paid $800 for a mole removal ontop of my $150 monthly bill and premiums. Emergency care is scary expensive, and for the love of God don’t use an ambulance.
I pay about $220 every two weeks for my HSA “High Deductible” Plan. Twisted my ankle pretty bad last November and after a visit to the urgent care, 3 visits to a podiatrist including 2 x-rays, and the.a boot and a support wrap that were purchased with the HSA, my funds in it are now depleted and put my $600 bill on a payment plan. My wife had some extra dental visits that resulted in a root canal that wiped most of it.
I have no idea how we’re gonna pay if we have something else come up.
I make 2x the median income in my area. But between the bills, $600(!) credit card payment, student loans from 10 years ago that just don’t want to go away, I feel I’d have to find some way to add another multiplier to my income. And that’s not including worrying about my 16yo car or my wife’s 10yo one. Was hoping my promotion last year would have gave me enough leeway to replace mine, but too much debt.
I pay about $220 every two weeks for my HSA “High Deductible” Plan
Which is actually not that much, based on my January payslip, 680 EUR have been removed from my paycheck to fund the government health/retirement/unemployment system (Which is based on my income, and I have a decent salary). There is also a part which is paid directly by the employer (and not visible on my payslip) so let’s say 1000 EUR a month. However, I keep coverage if I loose my job, and my highest left to pay was around 70 EUR for some imaging test (If I remember well total cost of the scan was 700 EUR with a 10% copay, and to answer the other question, got an appointment within 2 weeks). Note that the coverage would be the same (but way cheaper) for a minimal wage worker, and that I could get a private insurance to cover the deductible.
US conservative are right when say that Universal healthcare is expensive but I am rather having 700 EUR out of my pay check every month and not worry about getting medical care when I need it.
It is the norm. I worked with a man who had seizeres and no health insurance. The first time he was introduced to me he said “Hi, I’m Tony. Listen, I have seizures. If I have one, DO NOT call an ambulance, no matter what. I can’t afford it.” He told us even if it looked like he was dying, to just let him go because he could never afford the bills if he lived.
This wasn’t some crappy part time job, this was my first big girl real job after graduating college. Like welcome to adulthood, you might have to helplessly watch your coworker die at you place of employment!
I just feel bad for y’all. Most Americans I’ve met are at least nice people who probably deserve healthcare.
“Probably” made me chuckle.
In Australia, it’s not too uncommon to hear people have conversations about how fucked the US system is. That’s partly a symptom of how intertwined my life is with the topic of medicine and healthcare systems though, I’m sure most people have far fewer discussions about those topics than I do.
Having said that, I have certainly said “Thank God I’m not in the US” and received emphatic agreement in conversations.
I’ve also had a doctor say “well at least you’re not in the US” to me during an appointment, after I expressed some displeasure at how much something was going to cost me - because i wasn’t considered a valid demographic for that specific drug to receive the subsidy.
Socialised medicine doesn’t mean free medicine, sadly. And our system has been run down by the ruling class attempting to emulate the US version’s money-churning machine.
Socialised medicine doesn’t mean free medicine, sadly.
It does in Scotland.
In some ways America is a third world country. Healthcare is a fundamental human right, full stop.
We feel lucky we’re not there.
When i hear these stories i think im so grateful to not be born in such a horrible country. A country that can not look after its own isnt a country i want to be in
I’m sure they laugh at us, then feel a bit of pity, because most of us aren’t terrible people, but most of us can’t afford good healthcare because we vote for corrupt politicians in 2-party system of basically the same options, except one loves Russia and uses abortions to seduce the religious
Nobody with a little bit of compassion laughs at stories like this. People read this with a bit of incredulity and a lot of compassion. We might make fun of Americans at times, but there’s no humour here.
I’d argue most people on earth don’t have much compassion outside of their own circle.
I sincerely hope and believe you’re wrong. Sure, there grades, but I don’t think there absence of compassion outside our circles.
Hope is not a strategy. Belief is not a plan.
You pay taxes but get no benefit of them . They are used for subdivise automaker ,wallmart ,meat and dairy lobby and killing ciilvilan in other countries . I don’t understand why american are OK with that .
I don’t understand why american are OK with that
Because there’s absolutely nothing we can do about it?
I pray there comes a time when the people decide what their taxes are spent on. Could be done using a simple form, with a dozen or so broad categories to choose from, submitted with your tax return.
I bet the results would shock the shit out of the politicians.
I’d like to just start with having to send a check every two weeks instead of allowing them to just deduct it.
Make people physically pay their tax, that’s how you get engagement. And they know that, which is why it’s NOT like that.
The only thing that would do is make people hate taxes.
Americans already don’t include taxes on their prices in shops in order to make the consumer mad at politicians because of “how much tax they have to pay”, while it is just a ploy by the corporations to lower the taxes so they can improve their profit.
Society needs money in order to exist. Taxes are the best solution to pay for the stuff no ordinary individual would want to spend money on. Like road repair, firefighters, huge healthcare costs, …
I am not against taxation. Tho, I am against taxation when my government doesn’t represent me; and until I see studies, and enacted legislation that show public support influences policy than I will continue my position that our government has been coopted by an unfriendly occupying force. It’s as if at the macro level, we’re quartering the soldiers of our own oppression.
I hate throwing good money after bad, absolutely. And where do you live that spends money on their roads? Firefighters are famously and shamefully volunteer services and health care…that’s an institutionalized shell game to grift your life saving away from you. You didn’t think they’d let you keep that did you? Back to work, prole.
It’s more famously going towards banks, ISP’s, and airlines… Basically all the things we hate the most.
My wife needed her gall bladder out last year the most expensive part of the whole week-long ordeal was paying for parking at the hospital. She has private medical insurance through her work, but needing to deal with the paperwork and all that from the hospital wasn’t worth the effort.
The fact that people have to choose between bankruptcy or dying of preventable illness is kinda like school shootings: the fact that you tolerate this at all - let alone having a major party campaign on “these things are actually good and you should be happy about them” - is pretty much proof that all of you are completely insane.
First:
I think it was a wise thing with the activated charcoal. I think that you also did what was best in your situation.
I’d like to know other non-US citizen’s opinions on your health care system are
A very bad opinion. The health care system is one if the greatest shames in your country (after racism and the adoration of excessive wealth).
