- Harry Potter Fandoms will be a part of the Fediverse one way or the other. It’s better to shape this development rather than being overwhelmed by it.
- Harry Potter Fandoms are a huge opportunity for the Fediverse. Look at what the collaboration of Lego and Disney brought to Fortnite. People want to spend time in places, in which they feel familiar and welcomed. I’m not saying collaborating with big companies here, what I’m saying is: the Fediverse needs to be filled with life and we have to use that opportunity first, before others do.
- Don’t throw the opinions of J.K. Rowling and its fandom in one bucket. It’s one of the biggest in the world, there is a broad range of opinions and people.
- The Fediverse needs more projects that immediately make sense to people. Projects that you tell a person about, and they say: “Oh, yeah, that makes sense.” Mastodon in comparison to Twitter was such a thing: its billionaire proof. Everybody gets why that’s a good thing. A better, more open place to build Harry Potter fan sites could be another.
- The project (including other places like this that may follow) could also become another attractive place on the Fediverse for the open-source community. Who wouldn’t be excited to help build the world of Harry Potter?
All of this is of course up for discussion. I’m a very stubborn person but I’m also able to listen ;)
Does this include discussion of Rowlings current work like Bad Blood?
I ask because it gets to the core of why “separate art from artist” can’t apply when you are promoting the works of active bigots. Reading Poe or Seuss harms no one, but starting a community to promote upcoming projects from a bigots, such as the TV show or the games.
It feels HP fans want to have their cake and eat it to, you can’t be a trans ally AND be promoting the works of someone who uses that capital to actively harm trans folk. Which is why so many trans people are asking you to stop.
You and other trans who are asking people to stop are missing one important point: Harry Potter is the reason many trans people are still alive.
A story can walk farther even if the storyteller faltered sooner.
You have to understand that people often lose their way. It’s in the nature of many humans to do so.
whoa, was Voldemort after them?
And transphobia in main stream society is why many trans people are NOT alive today. Something that Rowling directly perpuates via Harry Potter. Every bathroom bill she champions and every trans inclusive space she attacks is part of this. Without question she is the biggest most influential name when it comes to transphobia. You can wax poetic that she “lost her way” and think of the good ole days but that doesn’t change the fact that her current actions are directly causing harm and the trans community is asking you to please stop celebrating her work. Rowling herself sees her continued public support of her work as direct endorsement of her bigoted views.
So if you truly do want to prioritize miniziming self harm then please understand how your actions and this community is supporting harm.
Its H.P. themed not Rowling themed. If they want to talk about Bad Blood in the literature section, sure. Like on all other literature instances, too. If its explicitly transphobic, its not.
Okay, but can you understand how that logic isn’t very consistent? Bad Blood itself is itself explicitly transphobic (a male killer dressing as a woman specfically to stalk women in the bathroom), it’s inherently biased bigoted propaganda. So discussion of the text would be allowed in literature section. Just not if it were transphobic?
You are trying to have it both ways. It’s easy enough to say you won’t allow transphobic content, but not to understand what that is nor listen trans folk pointing it out.
I mean frankly, you are gonna have the community regardless what I or any other trans person say, which is your right. Just please acknowledge that this isnt how an ally would act. It’s actively cognitive dissonance to have a nontransphobic discussion of Bad Blood or any of Rowlings work.
No, I meant that it wouldn’t be put to discussion if it were transphobic. It would need to be decided just like for any other book. I just don’t want to pre-empitively outrule the book because I don’t know it AND because the situation hasn’t arised yet.
But yeah, we can assume that it would happen. Its a fair question. Probably I or the mods would have to do some reading and then decide. But that holds for any controverse book.
Now, the question is, if in doubt, would I rather ban the book discussion or not, I would be on the side of allowing it, because banning books from discussion is a very radical step and then see if any transphobic comments pop up around it.
That’s true, it was never up for discussion; I mean, it was some work to put it up. But I’m interested in your opinions around it. Just because it will not be a safe place for queer folks (I have neither the resources nor the skills), it can still be a generally welcoming place to them (hopefully).
I wanna share with you something a therapist said to me a few years ago, a trans black man. (his race shouldn’t matter, but when I have talked about this story before I am told its important context). Are you familiar with mammy dolls? Wiki has pictures at the bottom and google will bring up a ton of stuff. You can go to basically any thrift store and probably find some.
Anyways, he told me that when he would go to an acuiqtances house some of them would have these dolls, usually little salt’n’pepper shakers. And how seeing those items would radically change how he viewed that person. He said it was common for his host to realize his reaction to them, and talk about how it was a family heirloom and that they aren’t racist. But, if an individual person is fine with a little racial sterotype out on their dinner table, Dmitri told me it didn’t really matter what they said next. Because he knew they were willing to look the other way when it comes to racism, and that if it ever came to it, that person probabbly couldn’t be counted on to help if he were the subject of some sort of racial abuse. Very much the same way people defend the confederate flag, it’s easy enough to say you aren’t racist but if you can’t even look at your own actions, how could you possibly speak to others?
I am glad you are interested in not having a transphobic space, but I need you to understand that having a harry potter is inherently looking the other way on transphobia. It tells the world that it’s not a deal breaker and you can work around it because you have good memories of the piece in past. It’s easy to say you don’t agree with Rowlings views but if you can’t even stop from celebrating her work, then how much can any one really expect of you to be an ally? The simplest ask of “please stop promoting bigots” is apparently too much to ask.
You aren’t morally required to be a trans ally I suppose, but it’s important to me that you understand it’s an oxymoron to have a harry potter community that is welcome for trans people. You can absolutely find black people with confederate flags and you can find the same for trans people liking HP, but they are absolutely the minority and the vast majority of those group find those sorts of things threatening. Seeing how easy it is for groups of people to ignore that in favor of a nostalgia, reminds us how close to the edge of society we are.
It’s not your fault that harry potter communities make me feel unsafe. But it is a common trigger for TONS of trans people about anxiety, dread and fear for the future. I’m sure you have never been in a trans support group, but please understand that HP is brought up often because its something that cause stress in the overwhelming majority of trans folk. I personally have been harassed by people wearing HP shirts, even if you and others are willing to look the other way on it, you must understand that other TERFs go to HP because of the transphobia.
So there you go. Thank you for listening to my opinion, you are of course always well within your rights to do or read whatever you like. I just ask that you please stop promoting, financially support and publicly celebrating bigots. I would say the same thing to fans of The Turner Diaries and of Finders-Keepers.
Look, first of all I’m not trans, I don’t know how its like, and you have my sympathy. The inzident with the H.P. fans harassing you sounds horrible and I’m sorry it happened to you.
Independent from this, I don’t think the world of H.P. itself is transphobic, if it was written by a different author there would still be things to critize but not more than many other childrens books. Also, I think that the fandom can free itself from Rowling in the sense that it becomes an independent thing from the author. For example the Lord of the Rings Series by Amazon Prime did some central things different than Tolkien. I think that’s how cultural development happens in contrast to just boycotting it. On the other hand, while Rowling still earns money from it and spends it for bad causes, there will always be a moral dilemma. But I’m willing to take the consequences of that moral dilemma in this case, because I think the H.P. fandom could be really good for the Fediverse and grow it, and a big Fediverse will be good for the world.
Additionally I have to add that, imo, throwing fashists and neo-nazis like David Duke into one bucket with Rowling is problematic, if not borderline totalitarian (and also just tasteless), because she simply isn’t. She is very conservative, but not a fascist. Fascists see certain groups of people as less human or not even humans at all, Rowling always said her arguments have nothing to do with the humans themselves, which is a crucial thing.
Thank you for the reply and for continuing to talk with me about this.
I understand why you think I am flying off the handle and comparing two things that aren’t the same. But there are a couple points I want you to keep in mind,
A)
Rowling herself has actively promoted self described fascists on multiple occasions. Matt Walsh in the US who repeatedly calls for, and his followers commit acts of violence at hospitals.
And Posie Parker in the UK. Who has a large nazis following her show up at her protests. And rowling herself was critical of the counter protesters at faccistic events, while not speaking to the Nazis there.
Posie has actively called for her supports to carry guns in to womens bathrooms to look for trans folk, clearly calling for violence.
B)
TERF transphobia is deeply rooted in the history fascism, the first books the nazis book burned were at a queer college studying trans topics. According to Nazi’s, trans people are a jewish plot.
-Jospeh Grobels who gave a speech at the burning.
C)
Rowling is an active part of a violent fascist movement both from a historical sense, from her current actions and in the books she writes. Harry Potter has many antisemitic tropes in the goblins, overtly racist names like the black wizard Shacklebolt and transphobia by repeatedly describing female villains to have “man hands”. There is ample evidence to put JK Rowling, Matt Walsh, Posie Parker and David Duke in the same fascist basket.
Which is why, symbols from those people make marginalized people feel uncomfortable. When you say you want a trans friendly harry potter space, it sounds like you are hanging a confederate flag because of your heritage and ignoring the ways that symbol is being used to harm people. I am not the only trans person I know that has been targeted by people wearing harry potter merch, they look for us. We know the community builders, while maybe not transphobic look the other way as it’s not a dealbreaker for the book. It’s hard not to wonder where else they look the other way. Which is why the community inherently makes me feel unsafe, and I think creating one is not how someone who supports our rights to exist would act.