I’m always interested in the comparison with programmers who want to start from scratch to make it better, only to make it just as bad as before, but after spending a lot of efforts.
It’s always an interesting question to explore. I have some anarchist sympathies, though I wouldn’t count myself in their ranks. I definitely get their criticisms of the current structures of society, and anarchism isn’t nonviable. But at the same time, I don’t know that it’s the way forward.
All I know is that capitalism has outstayed its welcome.
I think pure anarchism relies too much on people being good and working things out. Historically that just doesn’t pan out. So there does need to be some greater structure for organizing things, but I have no idea what it would look like.
Syndicalism offers some ideas for organizing into loose groups and interrelations between those syndicates but I haven’t dug deeply into the mechanics of it. I think ultimately humanity has to organize into groups of about 1000 individuals, related by common interests and mutual aid, with some grander scheme for global distribution of reaources. Soviets? Universal suffrage and democracy? Republicanism? Maybe each syndicate chooses for itself and somehow global anarchy between them “just works” (but I doubt it)?
Anyway, a fun problem to debate and armchair strategize about, since presumably none of us have the money and power to overthrow the current world order.
A predominantly investor-directed market economy predicated on private ownership of the means of production. Is that specific enough for you to permit me to use the term ‘capitalism’?
You don’t need my permission nor my approval; my agreeance even less so.
If I’m mistaking you, and you actually are attempting to engage me here, please forgive me my brusqueness— I’ve seen enough of people snapping back and forth at each other these days and am, no doubt, the nastier for it. It was not my intention in my previous comment for it to be a personal sleight against you, nor to have you stand a strawman for an ideology.
If that’s your takeaway, then you need to listen to more leftists and rightists. Rightists fundamentally have no fucking clue what Communism means, that’s where the whole “read theory” meme comes from. Leftists do understand Capitalism, and make genuine analytical claims against it.
It’s a shibboleth for either side, where the expression of distaste or hatred for the concept, or the quick association of evils with it marks you a member of the tribe.
Some Leftists understand Capitalism. Some Rightists understand Communism. Larger swaths than they wield the words about.
Nah, that’s just Enlightened Centrism nonsense. We are born into Capitalism, not Socialism nor Communism. I’m correct, leftists must first understand Capitalism to criticize it, while rightists just have to defend the status quo.
You can watch this in the real world, if you ask a right winger about Socialist concepts without calling them Socialist, most agree until you call them Socialist.
But at the same time, I don’t know that it’s the way forward.
As an anarchist, amusingly I fully agree with this statement. I don’t even think that a society in line with my ideals is currently possible (humanity needs to socially evolve) but more of a guiding light to aspire to and try to affect lasting change around me that can align with it after I’m gone.
All I know is that capitalism has outstayed its welcome.
One of the darkly humorous things that I find with the current state of things is that capitalism is a system that punishes stagnation but, those in power are desperate to maintain stagnation in the economic system or even regress towards earlier incarnations while preventing the system from evolving in any way that could better serve humanity. Those at the reins are, ironically, opposed to foundational parts of their own ideologizes economic system.
I’m always interested in the comparison with programmers who want to start from scratch to make it better, only to make it just as bad as before, but after spending a lot of efforts.
It’s always an interesting question to explore. I have some anarchist sympathies, though I wouldn’t count myself in their ranks. I definitely get their criticisms of the current structures of society, and anarchism isn’t nonviable. But at the same time, I don’t know that it’s the way forward.
All I know is that capitalism has outstayed its welcome.
I think pure anarchism relies too much on people being good and working things out. Historically that just doesn’t pan out. So there does need to be some greater structure for organizing things, but I have no idea what it would look like.
Syndicalism offers some ideas for organizing into loose groups and interrelations between those syndicates but I haven’t dug deeply into the mechanics of it. I think ultimately humanity has to organize into groups of about 1000 individuals, related by common interests and mutual aid, with some grander scheme for global distribution of reaources. Soviets? Universal suffrage and democracy? Republicanism? Maybe each syndicate chooses for itself and somehow global anarchy between them “just works” (but I doubt it)?
Anyway, a fun problem to debate and armchair strategize about, since presumably none of us have the money and power to overthrow the current world order.
It’s starting to feel like “capitalism” is for the left what “communism” is for the right.
A predominantly investor-directed market economy predicated on private ownership of the means of production. Is that specific enough for you to permit me to use the term ‘capitalism’?
You don’t need my permission nor my approval; my agreeance even less so.
If I’m mistaking you, and you actually are attempting to engage me here, please forgive me my brusqueness— I’ve seen enough of people snapping back and forth at each other these days and am, no doubt, the nastier for it. It was not my intention in my previous comment for it to be a personal sleight against you, nor to have you stand a strawman for an ideology.
If that’s your takeaway, then you need to listen to more leftists and rightists. Rightists fundamentally have no fucking clue what Communism means, that’s where the whole “read theory” meme comes from. Leftists do understand Capitalism, and make genuine analytical claims against it.
It’s a shibboleth for either side, where the expression of distaste or hatred for the concept, or the quick association of evils with it marks you a member of the tribe.
Some Leftists understand Capitalism. Some Rightists understand Communism. Larger swaths than they wield the words about.
Nah, that’s just Enlightened Centrism nonsense. We are born into Capitalism, not Socialism nor Communism. I’m correct, leftists must first understand Capitalism to criticize it, while rightists just have to defend the status quo.
You can watch this in the real world, if you ask a right winger about Socialist concepts without calling them Socialist, most agree until you call them Socialist.
You speak the memes like a native, and bravely declare yourself to be right. Thanks for the attempt at engaging— have a nice day.
I am correct, dodging my points and acting surprised that I correctly called out your nonsense doesn’t make you look better.
But was the day nice?
As an anarchist, amusingly I fully agree with this statement. I don’t even think that a society in line with my ideals is currently possible (humanity needs to socially evolve) but more of a guiding light to aspire to and try to affect lasting change around me that can align with it after I’m gone.
One of the darkly humorous things that I find with the current state of things is that capitalism is a system that punishes stagnation but, those in power are desperate to maintain stagnation in the economic system or even regress towards earlier incarnations while preventing the system from evolving in any way that could better serve humanity. Those at the reins are, ironically, opposed to foundational parts of their own ideologizes economic system.