This is a debate, not an argument, let’s be adults about this. [Insert political joke]
I just wanted to throw the AU/NZ plug into the mix since nobody is really talking about it. I don’t have enough knowledge about this kind of thing to really have a take on it, but I’m interested to get an international perspective.
I just mentioned NZ/AUS plus, probably as you were typing ;)
Hah. Yeah, I definitely prefer the size over UK plugs. It feels wrong to me to have a 230v wall voltage without a blanket requirement for earthing, but as I said, I don’t know enough about it. I’m quite open to being wrong about that.
Pros:
- not as big as the UK plug
- not an American plug
- those power cords that stick out at a diagonal parallel to the wall
Cons:
- no inbuilt fuses
- no inbuilt guard on the socket
- every plug and socket feels cheap.
- thin shitty pins that bend easily
- shitty sockets that break when shitty bent pins get plugged into them.
- used by a handful of people with tight regulations … and China. Good luck getting decent affordable, certified, smarthome sockets.
- that cunt who invented the vertically oriented twin socket wall unit. What a fuckhead.
- those power cords that stick out perpendicular to the wall.
Ghostface!
I don’t know why I never made that association before, but now I can’t unsee it.
It gets better with the switches as they look like a high ghost
For some strange reason that’s used in Argentina also. Not sure why here the ground is the same length than the others, though.
It’s better than the US one, but it’s just worse compared to the European ones. It’s hard to get them aligned in the dark/behind furniture, but at least it won’t fall out by itself.
Honestly USB-C. It is getting added to electrical outlets. Super small, basically impossible to get electrocuted being low voltage DC.
Works in every country.
Yeah but like, USB-C can’t power a washing machine
Yet
When the Apple car is released, the EU will invent 350 kW DC fast charging via USB-C 🙏
True but how often are you unplugging and plugging in a washing machine?
Generally speaking higher powered devices have a higher chance you leave them plugged in.
Hmm. What about a vacuum cleaner? It can’t be powered by USB-C.
I mean, that’s only true if your vacuum sucks. If it doesn’t suck, then USBC shouldn’t make a difference.
Ironically, you’ll find that all vacuums suck :)
Heh, I guess the sarcasm was lost. I know all vacuums SHOULD suck, but if it doesn’t, then USBC wouldn’t hurt, because it can’t suck less.
Hahah I’m so stupid, I didn’t get the joke myself and I tried to make the same joke
IEC C13 socket with C14 locking plugs. Already ubiquitous in data center facilities. Rated for voltages between 110 and 250, so it works for any country’s common household current.
Oh yeah, and it’s been used since forever. IIRC there are Commodore 64 components with the same power cord as a modern-ass PC PSU.
The plugs used in the Netherlands, too lazy to look up what type it is.
They’re well built, have snug fits, have metal only at the ends to avoid accidents, and I can go on for a while
The worst ones are the US ones that are also used in Canada and Mexico.
They. Suck… Badly…
I’ve electrocuted myself on many instances whilst trying to plug something in the dark. They connect with so little focrce that half the time plugs just slip out of the socket because of gravity. Its a shit show
Getting shocked by 120v is a rite of passage as a child growing up in the US
L5-20 and L6-30
There are so many well thought out features to UK plugs and sockets there is no contest.
Isn’t the UK plug like how it is because of the awful ring circuits in buildings built after the war? Otherwise could we have RCDs and overload protection at the switchboard?
As an Australian I’ll stand in solidarity with the UK on having switches for each power socket – immensely convenient.
I have no opinion on my country’s plug, it seems to work well and not grip loosely. But I’m open to being convinced that others are better.
I am convinced the Danish power socket contributes to national happiness.
The schuko plug is an even better implementation of that system because it’s symmetryic plug allows for more flexibility.
switches for each power socket – immensely convenient.
Admittedly, that’s pretty awesome. I don’t understand why these sockets with power switches are not common elsewhere.
Well there’s cost. Think about how many outlets in an office or home.
You may not understand the engineering of “UL” or safe switches because they would have to have full current of a short going through them, you have arcing, lifetime toggles, the ozone weakening the molded plastic, etc.
With most outlets (receptacles) there is a solid copper bar that goes from the wall wires to the part that pushes against the prongs of the plug. With a switch it’s slightly more complicated and would you only break the hot? What if someone wired outlet backwards?
Sure you could make every plug involve a fuse, circuit breaker, arc fault, GFCI, and a switch. And a USB transformer and nightlight.
It could help though in many homes if you had only one outlet wired to a switch, and could help with parasitic current draws of almost everything modern.
Sure you could make every plug involve a fuse, circuit breaker, arc fault, GFCI, and a switch. And a USB transformer and nightlight.
Now I want plugs with nightlights so they’re easier to find…
Don’t overestimate the cost
https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-13a-2-gang-dp-switched-plug-socket-white-5-pack/49620
That’s the retail price for 5, including tax.
Trade will be 20% cheaper if not more for buying in bulk.
If I moved to the states, my home would get switches on outlets.
You wouldn’t because they don’t exist outside of switch in place of top outlet you could wire to control one outlet.
But honestly the US already has switches on many outlets, because GFCI is required near water and some bedrooms, so the GFCI outlet can act like a switch with the test button
They absolutely do exist. I’d just have to install them.
Admittedly, that’s pretty awesome. I don’t understand why these sockets with power switches are not common elsewhere.
Because they solve a problem that ~nobody has for ~all their sockets.
Think about it: How many of your sockets do you actually use the switch on? 10%? 5%? Less?
It’s smarter to put switches only where they are needed, after all every component in a circuit decreases efficiency and maintainability.
I suppose it’s a use you never realised you needed until you have it. Here are some examples off the top of my head:
- Sandwich press stays in same place, doesn’t have an on/off button. Just flick switch and no need to unplug when not in use.
- Power strip for the TV is wedged behind a credenza. Need to power cycle everything plugged into it but would need to move the whole credenza to unplug it. Flick the switch with a stick or arm and it’s done.
- Using power tools and want to be sure they definitely won’t turn on while adjusting them: flick the switch and no need to unplug.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-13a-2-gang-dp-switched-plug-socket-white-5-pack/49620
These things last decades. Even the cheapest ones.
A switch should never reduce efficiency any more than the distance in extra wire (a couple of centimetres at most).
If it does I don’t know how you’ve found one cheaper than an already incredibly cheap product.
:D
I find the love for the UK plug fascinating, as to me it’s one of the worst designed pug types:
- It’s insanely bulky, for no reason other than to look chunky. This makes small appliances annoying, plus it increases the chance the plug can be damaged/broken if it drops onto a hard surface.
- The plus is weighted opposite of the pins, meaning they become caltrops if dropped to the ground.
- Fuses in plugs are unnecessary in countries where standards for housing wiring exist. Plus, even if you want to improve that, why decree fuses in plugs instead of fuses in walls and power strips? The latter you have far less of, take the practical route and decree fuses to be where the problem is, not next to the problem.
- Even if for whatever reason every single device that’ll be produced going forward needs to be fused (so this isn’t about current in the strips or the wall lines, but about the devices), put the fuses in the devices. This prevents some mechanical problems in case the cable gets damaged (again, the fuse is part of the problematic circuit it’s trying to fuse for, not away from it), but more importantly it removed the need for a very bulky plug.
It’s important to keep in mind that UK plugs were a necessity (ring circuits without circuit fuses in homes due to a copper shortage), not a desired result. They are good for what they had to do, but in times where the limitation no longer stops you from using a better plug style, they aren’t needed and just add bulk and complexity.
A smarter solution would be:
- Use the same legislative power that could decree fuses in all plugs to instead decree fuses for all wall circuits, preventing overcurrents at the source.
- Use a small but always-grounded plug like the swiss one.
- If more variability and more security features like ground-contact depth are required, opt for a german-style SchuKo system instead, which can also take euro plugs anyways in case you have a non-grounded device. Another upside of this plug is the superior physical durability of SchuKo plugs compared to just about everything else that isn’t an industrial connector.
Fused plugs still have a big advantage.
The amperage can be specific to the device.
We do mandate all circuits have RCD/GFCI now, but we’re not taking away fuses in plugs.
If a lamp starts drawing too much current for its wire, it might be on a 20A breaker. It should have a 1A fuse in the plug.
Fuses on the sockets would mean either specific sockets and circuits for low, medium, and high power devices or a loss of specificity. In fact there are 5 levels, so 5 different levels to replicate with your system.
https://www.stevensonplumbing.co.uk/bs1362-fuses.html
For a short or earth the RCD trips. If more goes out on the live than returns to the neutral the RCD trips. If the current goes high but returns correctly to the neutral, the RCD does nothing, the fuse in the plug breaks.
Fuses are an inch by a quarter inch.
Fuses and plugs could be made smaller but to be honest the pins and wires need to be able to take 13A.
Most of the bulk is about the length of the pins. Making it mechanically safe so the earth connects before the live, making it difficult to accidentally pull out the wall, and making sure no live connection is contactable when partly outside the wall.
We have low power travel adapters for low power devices that fold away bits they don’t need. Or separate onto pieces.
I think we’re good. Plugs are still smaller than AC-DC adapters we use all the time. Calling the bulky is a bit of a stretch. They’re aren’t bulky, even compared to a modern phone charger.
I absolutely second this
For example, when you step on them, they hurt a lot more than a Lego brick.
We have switches on the socket so rarely need to actually unplug anything.
Yeah UK plugs are what happened when the british military had millions of caltrops left after the war…
I mean, the same can be said for most plugs. I’ve had my own experience with US plugs, and it hurt so bad I thought it had punctured the bottom of my food.
All continental European standards are harmless, they lay flat and the prongs are thick and round
Type G plugs always land on the ground with the pins up though.
I may be skewed by the fact its the plug of my country; but i like the type L plug (its the no 1 in the photo) mostly because its modular: you dont need to get a specific faceplate to have a certain arrangement of plugs, switches etc… You just take the brace plate off and you can rearrange the fruits in the box to your hearts content. Eg: you pass an ethernet cable and need to put a keystone in the wall; you just buy the fruit and put it in the place of a blanking plate. What i dont like is the almost total lack of shielding for the live and neutral.
I agree. The Italian plug is compact and safe, and also modular.
Too bad we only have it in Italy
Chile says hi
Nah, reversible polarity. I hate that.
It’s 2024
There’s a lot of dangerous stuff coming from questionable countries that are referencing neutral in bad circuit designs. That can make chassis/buttons/exposed parts live if the polarity is set as such. Even worse, it might work great for a long time and then a diode or capacitor goes open circuit and suddenly something is live that wasn’t before.
In a device I trust, sure polarity won’t matter. But, there’s a lot of bad stuff out there, and I really don’t want to count on my RCD to stop the current before it’s done enough damage to me.
eh if you buy weird mains-powered devices from aliexpress that elude import control, that’s on you
I am going to argue Swiss type J.
It’s compact, safe, and easy to use.
Before anyone says UK I’m going to say they’re too bulky to be worth it. A usb charger for a UK plug is just so big and bulky that it’s not worth it. The Schuko plug falls into the same category.
If we are allowing future potential plugs I would argue for IEC 60906-1. It’s basically the same as Swiss type J but with very minor changes.
Swiss is interesting. It lacks some of the inherent safety of the SchuKo style, but it’s also far more compact, while keeping most safety features. I guess it’s a good compromise, which is often the crown achievement in engineering anyways.
I definitely agree about the UK plug. I don’t know how to describe it, but it looks like a caricature of what a plug is supposed to look like.
The main thing that should get adopted everywhere is having fuses or breakers in the plugs themselves. That would eliminate a lot of fires caused by putting too much current through small wires.
I also like the outlets (like in the UK and probably other places) that won’t unlock the mains slots until there’s a ground pin in place.
I also like the outlets (like in the UK and probably other places) that won’t unlock the mains slots until there’s a ground pin in place.
That’s… most places. Or better, they don’t open unless you push in both prongs at the same time
I don’t care for the one that require both mains pins go in at the same time. That’s what we have most in my area and they are not at smooth at the long ground pin unlocks.
Yeah that’s what I was about to say, that’s… most plugs. Except the really bad ones. Maybe OP is american. 😅 In which case, my condolensces, that plug design is positively cruel.
Want to say that we do have tamper resistant plugs now. They require both pins to go in at the same time.
That would eliminate a lot of fires caused by putting too much current through small wires.
The counterpoint to this would be: Why have the fuse in the plug (where the plug necessarily becomes bulkier and hence easier to break or harm someone by stepping on it, especially because the UK plug design means the points orient upwards on average) when you can have it in the device instead?
Moreover, why go the step of putting millions and millions of fuses into millions of millions of plugs instead of much fewer fuses on lines in homes? If you got to decree a fuse to stop overcurrent on the cable in the wall, put the fuse where you’re trying to use it.
(I’m not against fuses in all plugs, I’m just saying it’s easy to make counterarguments that it’s both impractical and also the wrong solution to the problem)
The plug is also a good place to put it regulatory speaking as it means no manufacturers needs to change device designs, they just need to buy different cords. And it does not mean the plug has to be huge the way it once did. Most people in the US don’t even notice that there are fuses in the christmas light plugs. And I had a desk heater once that used an automotive fuse; it mean most of the plug was fuse but it was still built into ano therwise standard NEMA 1-15 plug.
The benefit of the fusebin the plug is you can have a 1A fuse for a 1A appliance with a cable rated for 1A, and plug it into a socket rated for 10A.
If the appliance faults, then the wire doesnt catch fire.
If you dont have that, then all the wires have to be rated to 10A (or whatever the rating is).
And thats based on 1-breaker-per-socket.If you have 2 sockets close to eachother on the opposite side of the house than the breaker panel, its easier and cheaper to wire them both together on 20A cable and a single 20A breaker. The fuses in the plug protect the 10A cable to the appliance, the 20A breaker protects the 20A cable in the wall.
Yes, you could put a fuse in the appliance (a lot have this).
But that isnt convenient for lamps, where it might be bulky to include a fuse holder and ruin the aesthetic.
Or something that deals with water, like submersible pumps or kettles.
Also, some appliances have swappable cables (IEC C13 for example). So if the appliance has an internal 10A fuse but is used with an IEC cable rated to 5A then it leaves the cable unprotected and a possible fire hazard.
Fuses should be required for any power strip that is not rated for 20 A (2.5mm² wires). At least where I live that’s the highest current an outlet circuit can be rated for.
The power strips that cheap out and only put in 1.55mm²/16 A are stupid. For 20 A power strips though, fuses are redundant.Modern European plugs are already plenty safe for “accidental” insertion, you have to push into both holes at the same time for the outlet to “unlatch”.
How does that work for devices you don’t necessarily want ground pins on? eg: toasters
Why would you not want a toaster to be earthed? I can think of loads of devices that would apply to but toasters contain a lot of metal and frequently have metal casings.
You can also always have an earth pin, like type G plugs and sockets, even if it isn’t wired up and is made of plastic.
a plastic earth pin like this
If the toaster has a metal chassis, you DEFINITELY want that earthed, since any failure where the element or live hits the chassis will instantly trip the RCD/Ground protection whatever you guys call it. But, for devices that really don’t need a proper earth, we just put a plastic earth pin connected to nothing in the plug.
I’m always up for a bit of controversy. I like the basic ungrounded American plug (NEMA 1-15).
It has no safety features. Just about every American has shocked themselves with it once, but very few have done it twice. I like it because it’s compact, and that leads to some conveniences:
- It works great in folding designs for portable power supplies. I’ve seen folding implementations of Europlug and even British plugs, but they’re not as compact.
- It works great for ultra-compact splitters and many-outlet power strips. Yes, you can be dumb and overload these, but we have a whole lot of low-power electronics in the modern world such that it’s not hard to have a dozen devices each pulling less than an Amp. Multi-port USB power supplies are starting to mitigate this a bit.
- It doesn’t have shutters (by default), so it’s easy to plug things in. Every plug type I’ve encountered with shutters takes a lot of force and sometimes binds.
Just about every American has shocked themselves with it once
Americans I’ve met are smarter than that.
There’s a problem, though. You can get shocked by the US voltage and be fine. But try that with the European 50 Hz 240 V…
But try that with the European 50 Hz 240 V
I have. It hurts more.
It’s probably somewhat more dangerous than 110V if the circuit goes from one hand, through the chest, into the other hand. Most shocks involving a plug just go through a finger.
Knew a guy in college who had his thumb nail blown off from plugging a cord in while touching the terminals. Was gross.
“Just about every American has shocked themselves with it once”
Um, no.
Give it time.
You haven’t? I guess most people I know were dumber as kids that you were.
Are you saying they shocked themselves plugging something in? Or putting something else into the outlet.
The plug itself is not really easy to shock yourself on, you’d have to intentionally try to do it by putting something behind it to bridge the pins, or have a broken plug or something, so that’s why I am saying this seems incorrect.
I definitely knew some dumbasses that would attempt to creat a power arc, but they were certainly not the majority.
It’s possible to touch the pins with your finger when the plug is partially inserted into the socket. It’s especially possible with child-size fingers.
Many of the other plug designs, like Europlug have half-insulated pins to prevent this.
Possible, sure. Easy? Not really.
If you don’t feel pain when stepping on Legos for whatever reason, the UK plug is easily the best one.
Can’t deny it’s more robust and safer, but you also can’t deny that other plug designs are less expensive to produce. Pros & cons.
If you’re balancing basic safety against cost, you may work for Boeing.
If you get the balance wrong in either direction, you’re in trouble, but I’ve never known anyone IRL who’s ever been put in danger by my country’s comparatively cheaper plug.
The British style is the best for ELECTRICAL safety, but stepping on a plug barefoot will make you wish you carpeted your bedroom in Lego. You will vomit out your pelvis from the pain.
The European ones are overall better imho. Just because of the plugs that go in them.
Seriously I have both stepped on a British plug and been hit by a car and the car definitely did more damage, and the pain was worse in the long term. But the initial moment of impact was worse when I stepped on the plug.
The smallest is the best. I don’t know which one is the smallest, but I want that one.
Hey did you get that idea from the coffee shop thread? Someone was asking about weird outlets shown in a picture.
My answer for the question is obviously the UK standard.
My answer for the question is obviously the UK standard.
Also knows as the caltrop plug because it the damn things always fall spikes up and hurt whoever is trying to move through a room in dim light.
The correct answer is of course SchuKo plugs / CEE 7/3. If you check plugs used in the world you notice it has a huge spread of compatible plugs, as it can fit SchuKo plugs of two types and Euro plugs of two types. It also has all security features, including a raised ground that connects the ground before the power can come into contact.
It’s tough to truly pull favourites with power sockets - you just use what you got - but if I had to pick one that’ll be decreed to be used worldwide, it’d be this one. For sure.
Schuko and CEE pull out when pulled straight, and are annoying as fuck with vacuums and power tools so UK one beats them
Grounded danish plugs don’t fit Schuko sockets, but Schuko plugs fit danish sockets (but aren’t grounded).
This leads to a staggering amount of ungrounded devices in Denmark, as most are imported and making a variant for such a tiny country isn’t profitable.
Fun fact: the danish power plug was created by Lauritz Knudsen, a Danish company who had a monopoly. They are the reason Denmark uses this plug as the only country in the world, and Schuko only became legal to install in houses quite recently, so 99% of houses still use their standard.
LK has since been bought out by Schneider Electric but we are still stuck with our special plug and most imported devices are still ungrounded.
Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk.
