The future of selfhosted services is going to be… Android?
Wait, what?
Think about it. At some point everyone has had an old phone lying around. They are designed to be constantly connected, constantly on… and even have a battery and potentially still a SIM card to survive power outages.
We just need to make it easy to create APK packaged servers that can avoid battery-optimization kills and automatically configure an outbound tunnel like ngrok, zerotrust, etc…
The goal: hosting services like #nextcloud, #syncthing, #mastodon!? should be as easy as installing an APK and leaving an old phone connected to a spare charger / outlet.
It would be tempting to have an optimized ROM, but if self-hosting is meant to become more commonplace, installing an APK should be all that’s needed. #Android can do SSH, VPN and other tunnels without the need for root, so there should be no problem in using tunnels to publicly expose a phone/server in a secure manner.
In regards to the suitability of home-grade broadband, I believe that it should not be a huge problem at least in Europe where home connections are most often unmetered: “At the end of June 2021, 70.2% of EU homes were passed by either FTTP or cable DOCSIS
3.1 networks, i.e. those technologies currently capable of supporting gigabit speeds.”
Source: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/library/broadband-coverage-europe-2021
PS. syncthing actually already has an APK and is easy to use. Although I had to sort out some battery optimization stuff, it’s a good example of what should become much more commonplace.
@Wander @selfhosted this whole “We are walking about with entirely reasonable servers in our pockets for reasonable scales - why doesn’t it feel like that?” thing is in my brain quite a bit.
@benjohn @selfhosted 6-8 GB of RAM with powerful CPU and GPU that was designed to run games and can in some cases run small AI models is nothing to scoff at imho.
@selfhosted Update:
- Just to clarify, the the whole point is that Android makes it easy for less tech oriented people to host small single user / family services.
It does not need to be perfect, have massive throughput or allow for massive amounts of read/write cycles.
If people can host their own media server like Jellyfin or note taking apps like Joplin instead of using commercial services by simply installing an APK on an old phone they can leave connected at home, that’s already a big win.
- Regarding device longevity, Android 13 apparently supports / will support full KVM emulation. Windows can be run if you have root while android based VMs are expected to be possible without the need for root. Since this type of virtualization allows VMs to run their own kernel, keeping the “server app” updated should allow the user to be protected even if the host OS is outdated as long as these server-app-VMs are trustworthy themselves.
@Wander @selfhosted digging into the updates or running linux instead of android that other comments are mentioning feels like missing the point a bit.
the accessibility that this would provide could easily surmount the hurdle that prevents most from being able to get off big central services. self hosting, or even any alternative that doesn’t hold your hand 100% of the way (cough, mastodon) is beyond most people.
even if it’s wrapped up nicely and not precisely long term, it would do a lot for the learned helplessness that big tech trains and to bridge that accessibility gap. even if the typical end user doesn’t get that involved, it could be an easy way in to understand how you might manage your own data.
not like it’s much less safe having a limited security patch lifespan than (insert big company data breach here) :vlpn_happy_blep:
@leggylav @selfhosted OMG, yes, thank you <3
I finally feel understood now :vlpn_cry:
@Wander @selfhosted more folks need to read this https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/
it’s kinda easy to overlook this in techy circles. it’s why web 2.0 was able to reach most of the world, and why the old ways of building your site / hosting your services from scratch will always be limited in reach. most people just… don’t even know that’s an option, never mind have the background to know where to begin.
unless you want to tell everyone to stop using the internet (fat chance), or continue to support the centralized corpo hellscape, we need easy ways for people to spin up their own digital infrastructure, and build platforms for themselves without a profit driven middleman.
/rant
sorry, this is a bit of a personal crusade to me, i love this idea :ms_awoo:
I mean, android is fine I guess, but it’s being pushed to be less and less able to be separated from Google. I think for a lot of people interested in self hosting, there’s a low amount of interest in it because of that.
Counterpoint: spicy pillows
I was going to host pihole on an old android until I noticed it getting quite warm while continuously connected to power. Realised I didn’t know the lifespan of the battery and didn’t want it tp start a fire.
Running web services on a device that hasn’t seen a security patch in 3 years seems like a bad idea.
Also, unless you can mount a real hard drive, you are going to very quickly run into I/O bandwidth issues and flash longevity limits
