I’ve been trying to keep an open mind about the hexbear people even if I disagree with them a heap. One thing I don’t understand is the constant defense of their stances with ‘critical support’ I can buy into some of their arguments but like, shit, I hate the west, too, but I’ll ‘critically support’ them and their non aggression pact over whatever the hell Russia is doing.
It’s a very messy situation there in Ukraine, and my support goes to whatever will stop it. I have no sides in this game, my close ones are on both sides of the actual conflict and this is terrifying. Stop fighting, and then make talks.
That’s a disclaimer.
Now one correction on the post: what happens is not ethnic cleansing, and we should not call it that way, for it shows incompetence and may hurt us when talking about real ethnic cleansings, like Myanmar and whatnot. No one pushes Ukrainians away from their land or seeks to genocide the population (even though, as in any war, civilians get hurt dramatically). The proper wording would be forceful reintegration, which, I gotta stress, is super bad, but it is not cleansing.
Ukrainans do have an identity of their own, an identity that doesn’t go anywhere, including in those migrated to Russia long ago. Sure, Putin’s plan is to reinstate the idea of a brotherly nation, one we shared our core history with throughout almost entire timeline, but even if you look from the position of “turning Ukrainians into Russians” (which is still not how ethnic cleansing is defined), this is simply not possible. Again, I’m speaking this as Ukrainian AND Russian by bloodline, I know what I’m talking about.
What really happens is an invasion, an occupation of the country in order to reinstate a puppet state which has been there, partially, before 2014. It is more akin to USSR driving tanks through Eastern Europe than anything else. Essentially making “friendly” puppet regimes as a form of political control. Very sad Putin didn’t learn from past mistakes, doomed to repeat them through a never-before-seen massacre - the one my people, on each side, struggle with.
Regardless of your bloodline- you’re ENTIRELY wrong on this.
The bloodline argument only goes for insider knowledge of how those two nations interact and assimilate (I have a lot of russian Ukrainians as friends and family), plus it highlights again that I have close ones on both sides and I’m neither pro-Russia nor pro-Ukraine.
Sure, this doesn’t make me a political expert in the slightest, though if you have exact counterpoints - feel welcome to voice them.
No more arguments implications.
Go back to main on lemmygrad and Eat trash and die Nazi.
- Lemmygrad
- Nazi
pick one
Also, for the record, I’ve been banned on Lemmygrad, and if you can’t reason and only go crowd downvoting, you’re not defender of the truth but an angry mob.
If anyone can tell me why they downvoted this additional explanation, I’d be supper happy. But it’s easier to not read, push arrow down and claim me Nazi.
Back to your Nazi hole.
No one pushes Ukrainians away from their land or seeks to genocide the population (even though, as in any war, civilians get hurt dramatically).
For starters, US press releases should not be your go-to source of factual information. Ever. It’s like going to the site of Moscow Kremlin.
Here’s a press release from the United Nations still confirming your point of view, but which is way more credible: https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15395.doc.htm
But even it mentions those things mostly through Ukrainian-sided official statements, which include things like “million Crimean kids deported to Moscow since 2014” (sorry, what?), which destroys a lot of trust in the content of the statement.
Still, some children are taken to Russia, this is true, and a lot can be done differently. I support the idea to take kids from orphanages situated in a literal warzone (don’t you?), but I don’t like the idea of teaching them all things Russian, although it should be noted they are taken from the Donbass region which has always been heavily dominated by Russian, not Ukrainian, culture and language. Those people are and were already closer to Russia than to Ukraine, they have strong ties to Russia, which is why the separatist movements emerged there in the first place after 2014.
Same are the reasons Crimea has got into Russian occupation with absolute majority of locals cheering and welcoming this (this is true, I’ve been on the ground at the time) - the region is dominated by ethnic Russians, and they never really had strong cultural ties to Ukraine in the first place.
Again, delivering those kids a more balanced picture would absolutely be amazing. But it is not literal conversion from Ukrainian culture to a Russian one.
Man you can fuck off pretending to “have no side in this game”. You are a blatantly obvious Russian apologist, and everyone knows it. Go back to your lemmygrad account and stay there.
Could y’all please stop assuming the worst intentions and also sending me to Lemmygrad, the place I was banned from for having my own head?
I step heavily against the war in Ukraine, and I’ve been part of the anti-war protests that broke out in 2022. My relatives live in a city shelled by Russian army, they often live without electricity (got a battery pack for astronomical money, those are hot in Ukraine rn for obvious reasons), and at the same time some of the family’s men are hiding from Ukrainian drafts that are carried out literally on the streets. I don’t want them to die, in their homes or on the battlefield. Neither do they.
And at the same time, I don’t think saying “Russia bad boo-hoo not gonna listen to anything” is gonna help anything at all if your goal is to save people’s lives. I add important context (here: orphans are taken from warzones of Donbass to safety, by both sides of the conflict) that might be helpful at looking on some of the things from a different perspective.
I’m gonna clash and I do clash with both Ukraine-saint mob and actual Russian apologists (this gets no less violent), and I’m gonna do this again and again, because angry mob is the enemy of the truth. And when we don’t do what is actually best, when we fanatically embrace a position (which most of Lemmy appears to do) - we make people suffer way more than they should. On this particular matter, it’s kids that suffer.
You can call me Russian apologist. They can call me a Western bootlicker. At the end of the day, I do what I think is right - and if you have something to counter my words with, I’m ready to listen.
Pivoting and changing subjects.
Shifting blame
Go back to lemmygrad and Eat trash and die Nazi.
Russians steal Ukrainian children, they’ve multiple times been caught mass executing civilians too… Their side iterates that Ukraine doesn’t exist, like Putin implied.
Putin wants to eradicate the Ukrainian national identity.
The official narrative is that Ukrainian government is illegitimate and ruled by Nazis, abd the country needs to be “liberated” from their rule. It doesn’t strongly assume destruction of Ukraine the state, but clearly indicates that Russia or its puppets should be in charge.
And even then, there are many stateless nations, and I don’t think Ukrainian identity is the one that is easy to erase.
The official narrative is that Ukrainian government is illegitimate and ruled by Nazis, abd the country needs to be “liberated” from their rule.
Okay but we, over here on the good side of the sanity line, know that’s not true, right? It justifies nothing.
Absolutely, it doesn’t justify any actions of Russia in Ukraine, and I never said so.
I just say the Putin’s endgame doesn’t necessarily include Ukraine losing statehood (but it would certainly become a puppet state with all the negative consequences).
Do you understand that Baltics, Scandinavia, Czechia and Poland utterly hates russia?
Did you ever think why?
Maybe, it is because of history.
Documented one.
History experienced first hand.
And second hand from their parents and grandparents.
That.
#FOUGHT
#RUSSIA
#THAT FOUGHT
#USSR BACKED AND INSTALLED REGIMES
Also, get fucked with this strawman argument of reframing ethnic cleansing.
Katyn. Blamed on Nazis. Done by russians.
Bucha. Fucking staged? Who the fuck buys this?
Georgians sent first in Battle of Berlin. Documented by NKVD/KGB.
Non-ethnic russians sent to war in Ukraine.
Ukrainians deported from Crimea.
Ukrainians shamed for using Ukrainian language and not Russian
Baltics deported and replaced by Russians. How the fuck would Estonia and Latvia would end up with 30% russian population.
Polish language erasure during occupation.
Russia did actual ethnic cleansing. Mass murder. Culture erasure by stealing artifacts, destroying cultural sites, language erasure.
Always did.
That is the topic.
Murder. Culture erasure.
Literal.
Nazi.
Shit.
Brotherly love. My ass. It is pure hate for anyone that is not russian. Always was.
Did you honestly read the last paragraph, for example? The one where I talked about similarities between current situation and what USSR has done in the past and denouncing both?
Or did you skim the text and went straight into anger posting?
There’s no communism without liberation from capitalism. The reactionary communists-in-name-only serve the capital with their support of Russia/China/etc
There is a long way to go, both in the war and after it, but I wish all the best to those fighting for a
I bet this will drive the hexbear users up the wall.
Luckily, I have their instance blocked in my user settings so I don’t have to listen to their drivel.
Same.
Instance block is the best fucking feature to come to lemmy for years…
Absolutely.
The leader of the country which is suffering from Russian imperialism supports Israeli imperialism.
I support Putin, because there is no practical alternative in the near future.
It’s not like Russia has a well-oiled transition machine where if he were to leave office, everything would smoothly shift to a new regime that brought unicorns and love to all.
We’d be rolling the dice on a rogue’s gallery:
Maybe we’d get someone Yeltsin-ish, who is buddy-buddy with the West by allowing the widescale plundering of Russia’s assets, and further driving their quality-of-life metrics into the dirt, starting the cycle that leads to another strongman.
Maybe we’d get someone even more militant than Putin, especially if the war leaves them spiritually depantsed. Launches nukes or directly engages a NATO member. Putin may have a taste for blood, but he’s not on a suicide mission.
Or maybe we’d just get someone incapable of holding the federation together, creating a new Balkan-style slow-motion crisis. Whee! Squabbling new nuclear states with the GNP of a Carl’s Jr. franchise and unknown leadership… that’s not going to cause proliferation issues.
I still believe there are options to wind down the war, but the West will refuse anything that smacks of a concession for as long as possible. Conversely, I suspect what Putin wanted from day 1 was some form of formal concession-- the fact he got foreign powers to give up something is more important than the specifics delivered, for the sake of displaying his power at home.
Average Pootin supporter
ROFL.
This is exactly the type of logic used by conservatives to resist any progressive agenda, and one of the many ways redfash unmask themselves
Putin is big part of the reason why there is no alternative. It won’t emerge specifically because of him.
Which, in turn, means we have to consciously go through the path of uncertainty before it hits us anyway. Waiting is delaying the inevitable, all while people die and economy is crumbling.
Off to your main on lemmygrad.
Almost end of the shift anyway.
Eat trash and die Nazi
