Please don’t actually disrespect these graves.
Jokes are jokes
Yeah, until idiots on the Internet start taking them literally. See: 4chan.
Apparently civility politics is back in style for pleading for sympathy for… [checks notes] people who fought to uphold one of the most brutal forms of an already brutal institution in defense of white supremacy.
It’s functionally the same logic as… [check notes] American civilians deserving to die in 9/11 for being complicit in American imperialism. Would asking Bin Laden not to attack the WTC count as “civility politics”?
“Disrespecting the graves of soldiers who literally fought and died in a war for slavery is the exact same thing as killing civilians in a terrorist attack because a rich Saudi kid was assmad that infidels were on holy land in the early 90s”
10/10
I’m assuming you’re thinking every single soldier in the Confederacy fights because they want their precious slavery.
not everyone who served had much of a choice. Many were expected to serve on one side or the other merely because of where they lived. This is true of much of history
I’m pointing to this comment made by someone in this post. Feel free to piss on the grave of Jefferson Davis or soldiers who thought like him. Also, Bin Laden thought every American civilian is just as guilty as the soldiers.
From Messages to the World: The Statements of Osama bin Laden, as quoted in the guy’s Wikipedia page:
“Furthermore, he argued that all Americans were complicit in the crimes of their government due to majority of them electing it to power and paying taxes that fund the US military.”
Assuming you’re American, what do you think if someone you don’t like uses the same logic against you?
I’m assuming you’re thinking every single soldier in the Confederacy fights because they want their precious slavery.
The war is literally about slavery. As I pointed out elsewhere in this thread, the calculus is the same as people who fought for the fucking Nazis - if you’re ‘brave’ enough to die for slavers, but not for slaves, you deserve to be cast in with the slavers.
Also, Bin Laden thought every American civilian is just as guilty as the soldiers.
Okay…? Why does the rich Saudi kid’s opinion on how civilians are totally okay to murder matter here?
Assuming you’re American, what do you think if someone you don’t like uses the same logic against you?
… how is that the same logic? Please, explain to me how “It’s okay to disrespect people who served in the armed forces of a revolt whose sole purpose was slavery” and “It’s okay to murder civilians because they pay taxes” is the same logic?
Okay…? Why does the rich Saudi kid’s opinion on how civilians are totally okay to murder matter here?
Probability-wise, you’re mad that Bin Laden even thought of murdering civilians in the first place. Bin Laden didn’t care because in his view, they’re virtually combatants i.e. valid targets for a struggle that you disagree with, to put it mildly.
… how is that the same logic? Please, explain to me how “It’s okay to disrespect people who served in the armed forces of a revolt whose sole purpose was slavery” and “It’s okay to murder civilians because they pay taxes” is the same logic?
The intensity of the desired action (mere disrespect vs. murder) is very different, but its logic is the same from my perspective: I want to do X on Y because I don’t like that Y does Z. Let’s take the “okay to murder civilians because they pay taxes” hypothetical sentiment. Though very remote, it’s not impossible for an unhinged enough anarchist to believe this and actually act on it.
Probability-wise, you’re mad that Bin Laden even thought of murdering civilians in the first place. Bin Laden didn’t care because in his view, they’re virtually combatants i.e. valid targets for a struggle that you disagree with, to put it mildly.
I can say infants are virtually combatants, and it doesn’t make it so. Why is his insane argument at all valid?
The intensity of the desired action (mere disrespect vs. murder) is very different, but its logic is the same from my perspective: I want to do X on Y because I don’t like that Y does Z.
… what
“I want to put murderers in jail because I don’t like that murderers kill people”
is thus the same logic as
“I want to murder gay people because I don’t like that gay people have sex with the same gender”
are you fucking shitting me right now
are you fucking shitting me right now
No. It’s really the same logic. Otherwise, homophobia would not be even a thing anywhere in the world.
Take a few minutes to hear from a man who fought in the Civil War as a 16 year old boy for the 26th Virginia Cavalry.
He wasn’t old enough or educated enough to even realize slavery was one of the causes of the war. At the end of the video he blames the wealthy/politicians for getting them into it, and celebrates the end of slavery.
Makes you wonder what his story would have been if the south had won
Would be a bit rough if someone actually did this
Misspelled “rad”.
What word would be the misspelled one?
“Rough”
How do you even manage to misspell “rad” so badly that it’d read “rough”??
It’s a joke about pretending that you meant to say that it would be a rad thing to do.
Oh wow really?
I think this is rather distasteful.
Whatever side they fought on it would do well to remember that these people too have their stories. How many were dragged in to fight in the meat grinder, no matter their opinions?
Even German graves from WWII are typically left alone because they already paid the ultimate price.
Edit: if anything, this should serve as a reminder what war really is and why we should always avoid it if we can
My uncle will be turned into a toilet when he dies. That’s he get’s for being a forced birther.
Apt username.
Go ahead, I’ll give you another chance to respond like a real person.
Yeah that’ll teach those long-dead conscripts!
Yeah, fuck 'em.
What do you call someone ‘brave’ enough to die for treasonous slaver scum, but not brave enough to die against treasonous slaver scum?
Slaver scum.
Tens of thousands of men from the South volunteered to help their actual country’s army. Many more resisted in other ways, took up arms as partisans, or simply left traitor-controlled areas. I have no more sympathy for conscripts of the CSA than I do for conscripts of Nazi Germany. Were they inherently terrible people? No, probably not. But they made a choice that was, ultimately, cowardly and evil, and they deserve no asspats on that account.
Hey, we found a Good Person! Virtuously expressing themselves by pissing!
Here I thought I was just a memer, humorously expressing myself by mocking shithead Confederates.
You got everything right except the “humourously” part.
I don’t know, I forcefully blew air out of my nose. That’s a pretty high bar of humor met for me.
Probably in the same way the confederates blew air out their nose when they ganged up on the people they considered worthy of grave-pissing.
Shitty behavior all around. You sound like a confederate to me.
Their ratio on here is pretty good though.
Probably because they aren’t a traitor.
Pissing on graves sounds like confederate behavior to me. Enjoy your ratios and your piss and shit, which is how you apparently express yourself.
Would you include literal child soldiers who had no idea slavery was a cause of the war in that “slaver scum” category?
If you watch that video, you can hear from someone who fought in the 26th Virginia Cavalry. Towards the end of the video, he celebrates the end of slavery, and blames the politicians for bringing them into the war. Many of the folks buried in these cemeteries were uneducated, rural children who only knew they were “defending their homeland from invasion”.
Do we really need to piss on their graves?
Would you include literal child soldiers who had no idea slavery was a cause of the war in that “slaver scum” category?
Literal children? No, because children are generally accepted to have reduced independent moral agency for a variety of reasons.
Many of the folks buried in these cemeteries were uneducated, rural children who only knew they were “defending their homeland from invasion”.
My guy, that Lost Causer myth hasn’t been accepted in historical academia since the 70s. There was broad understanding and acceptance on the Confederate side, amongst the rank and file, that the war was being fought for slavery and white supremacy. You wanna roll out John Smith from Nowhere, Atlanta, and say he’s a very special boy who didn’t understand what was going on? Sure, whatever makes you feel better. I’m sure there were a couple of innocents in the Wehrmacht and the SS as well who were simply too dumb to understand what was constantly and loudly repeated by both sides of the conflict. But unless you want me to single out his grave to be spared, I don’t really know what relevance your saintedly ignorant theoretical individual has to the discussion.
Only on Lemmy could “pissing on the graves of child soldiers isn’t cool” be a controversial take.
“Don’t piss on Wehrmacht graves! You might hit someone who was innocent!”
Exactly. One in every six Wehrmacht troops fighting on D-Day was a non-German, many of which were prisoners who’d been forced to fight for the Nazis. You might actually be pissing on the grave of a Korean POW who’d been shipped to the German frontlines by their Japanese captors.
Source: https://militaryhistorynow.com/2014/06/02/germanys-foreign-volunteers-helped-man-the-atlantic-wall/
“In one more memorable encounter, members of the American 101st Airborne stumbled upon a group of surrendering Asiatic troops in German uniforms. Despite repeated attempts, Allied interrogators were unable to communicate with their curious Wehrmacht prisoners. Only later was it discovered that the soldiers originally hailed from Korea and had absolutely no interest in fighting for the Third Reich. How they ended up in German uniform is one of the Second World War’s most outlandish sagas.”
Nobody’s pissing on anyone’s grave. Why are you acting like anyone actually did? This is supposed to be a joke. You sound like a puritan.
The message of the joke itself is most excellent though. It’s an insult targetted at their current-day cult. This war was not a war like the others, and traitors and slavers deserve no honor in death. May they rest in piss. I like the sound of that, and found it pretty funny.
The number of Confederate apologists in this thread is frankly insane. “Oh no! Someone is making jokes about pissing on the graves of traitors and slavers! What if there were some innocent people in there?? I mean, I realize that it’s going to be really difficult to find someone who was so insanely stupid to not be aware that they were fighting for slavers and traitors, but what if they exist???!?! Are you going to piss on their grave, too!!!???!”
No, I think it’s recognition that whatever crimes you think they’ve done, they’ve paid for it already in a permanent way. So joking about pissing on their graves (160 years later ffs) is ill taste. Feel free to smear shit or graffiti over confederate statues that seek to glorify the cause rather than memorialize the dead though since that is not the same thing.
I also think most common soldiers in the confederate army fought for no higher reason than they were drafted and had little choice; or they signed up to defend their state against an existential threat. If you look at recruitment posters of the time, they’re talking of northern invaders raping and pillaging their women, property and lands.
whatever crimes you think they’ve done, they’ve paid for it already in a permanent way
Have they, though? Death isn’t exactly unique. Regardless of how good or bad a person you are, everybody has death as their final fate. So dying for a shitty cause isn’t exactly punishment, considering that people who were in favor of a good cause still met the same fate. Death isn’t a punishment for being a shitty person, it’s just a birthright.
I also think most common soldiers in the confederate army fought for no higher reason than they were drafted and had little choice
Ok, but you know who else was drafted and had little choice? The people who defected. Some of those same people worked to further the cause of abolition by operating the underground railroad. Some of them wound up in prison, and some of them were hanged. I don’t have any sympathy whatsoever for someone who lacked the courage or morality to fight against evil. And I have even less sympathy for someone stupid enough to fall for basic bitch propaganda like what you described.
Dude, that is so easy to say when you weren’t actually there, in a completely different time.
The flow of information was completely different back then too. You have the worlds information at your fingertips, these people hardly new what happened outside of their town and even then it was delayed and through very few sources.
It’s not that your anger is completely unjustified, but damn dude… Your anger is directed at a bunch of dead suckers most of whom were probably not large land owners and politicians. Direct it at their leaders, or better, the suckers very much alive, currently buying MAGA hats.
I run into MAGA / QAnon loons online and they suffer the opposite issue. They have plenty of information to choose from and they’ll choose the worst and use cognitive dissonance to blank the rest. The number of times they’ll dismiss stuff by proclaiming it comes “from the Soros media” or whatever. One basket case even replied to a news story the other day that Ukraine was a “movie set” to discount the news of missile strikes. How can you reach people like that?
I suspect for all people during the American civil war their only source of news was their local newspapers and fliers. Hardly surprising if they were unable to develop enlightened views that GP seems to judge them for not having.
Celebrating the confederacy is wrong, but I also think museum-like stuff and graveyards are harmless and should be respected. First of all, not everyone who served had much of a choice. Many were expected to serve on one side or the other merely because of where they lived. This is true of much of history. Second, they’re dead. It’s over for these specific people. They’re not a current problem. It’s just disrespectful no matter who it is.
I am NOT defending anything confederate, but I know that nuance is lost on most people.
I’m in total agreement, and have visited many union and confederate historical sites (graveyards, prisons, battlefields), which have been invaluable sources of information.
I broadly agree, but would point out that the huge number of statues erected during the civil rights era, celebrating people that led a traitorous war to defend slavery have little to no historical value, and were put in place to send a message echoing what those confederate leaders fought for.
We teach about the Nazis without celebrating them - I don’t see why the Confederates should be any different.
I don’t see any statues in this photo. Nobody here is talking about celebrating the Confederate soldiers, only suggesting that their graves shouldn’t be pissed on.
If you don’t think statues are covered under the umbrella of “museum-like stuff” and aren’t relevant to a conversation about what public relics of the Confederacy should be preserved, that’s a you issue, my guy.
Maybe you missed the point of my comment. I agree with you that Confederate statues erected during the civil rights movement are an affront to everything we stand for as a nation. I agree that they should be torn down wherever they exist.
I also don’t understand what any of that has to do with a photo of unmarked Confederate graves. Or how it would in any way justify pissing on them.
I’ve argued this before, but if Russia has any hope to move towards capitalism rather than their current communist streak, whoever succeeds Putin would be wise to sell the opportunity to piss on Putin’s grave.
If done smartly, this could be a really good opportunity for Russia. Imagine going to pissonputinsgrave.com and being greeted by several packages:
- Base package - $15. You’re in the neighborhood and you want to piss on his grave. Just buy the ticket, show the QR code to Igor and he’ll look the other way while you enjoy pissing on the cunt.
- Deluxe - $450. 5 nights in a 4-star Moscow hotel await you. Entrance to museums, the Kremlin and Putin’s grave are included in the price. Enjoy pissing on his grave every night of your vacation, even multiple times a day. Igor will even aim your penis at the grave if you want.
- Oligarch - $1000. Deluxe package, but with flights to and from your location included. Igor will come pick you up. Igor will insist on aiming your penis at the grave.
- Remote - $5000. Why visit Russia when you can go to places that aren’t shitholes? When you’re truly wealthy, you can have your cake and eat it too. Igor will come to you. He will be carrying a gold cup with your name engraved on it in rubies. You may fill it with the liquid/solid of your choice, and Igor will take it back through customs somehow. You will receive a video of that very same cup being poured onto Putin’s grave, and will receive the cup back as a souvenir, after it has been thoroughly sanitized. You can of course have Igor hold your penis at any point while he is visiting.
I… what?
… Russia isn’t communist? And hasn’t been since the fall of the Soviet Union?
didn’t you know? capitalism is when you can sell things, communism is when things are bad
