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Okay, I guess I’ll say it. Year of Linux Desktop!
Next year is the year of IPv6!
which one?
It was me checking out all the distros
based autismo
I have spent 3 days trying to install 64bit Linux on a mini PC which has 32bit UEFI. The funny thing is that this device is so slow probably I will not use it, but I still want to make it work.
What brand is it? I’m waiting for my crowdfunded mini PC which will definitely be running Linux, so I’m curious as to other people’s experiences.
It is a ViewSonic, but I don’t know the model. I have it’s PCB and power supply only. CPU is Intel Atom x5-Z8350. Btw I have already installed Linux on it, was a really good feeling, now it is collecting dust on the shelf :D
2024 YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP
fr this time i swear
I’m replacing a couple of really old PCs at work with slightly less old PCs and I know they don’t meet Windows 11 specs without workarounds. I’m thinking about taking the leap but I need printer support to work. Otherwise something like open office and a web browser will do what I need. What distro should I start with? I don’t have time to find a perfect fit.
I’d say keep it basic with Ubuntu. It’s not exciting, but it ‘just works’ out of the box and there’s TONs of support if you can’t figure something out.
2nd. Ubuntu is the place to be if you want your best chances for immediate compatibility, and search results will favor your popular configuration if you have issues.
3rd, but I recommend getting the kde variety (used to be called kubuntu). This will give you the most windows like experience. Regular Ubuntu ships with gnome and has a different feel to it.
Also, gnome suxxxxxxxxxxx! There, I said it!
I just installed Linux on a six-year-old budget laptop this morning. My first time using Linux. What was a uselessly slow machine is now just humming along.
I’m doing my part!
Welcome to the linux world! We wish you software freedom and hardware longevity.
Welcome!
Nice. That is what started me into Linux. Wife’s 2011 laptop became useless with W10 upgrade, now it runs linux and she has fast browsing, zoom calls etc, and it is peppy like a new computer.
When I was part of the KDE marketing working group, we always talked about 5% being the magic number. If we hit that, then the avalanche of ported and supported third party software starts. It’s a weird chicken and egg thing. Looks like we’re close!
This is very good. The higher those numbers go, the more pressure there will be for better official support for both HW and SW.
FOSS is fantastic. But lack of options (FOSS or paid) for a few of my use cases keeps me stapled to Windows and WSL. Unfortunately. I’m hoping the momentum shifts.
FOSS or paid
I hope you know the difference between Free(Libre) and Free(gratis)
I suppose what I mean is that i am happy to select whatever software is best for the task at hand. I have no issue with paying for software if it serves my needs. In a few cases, that limits my options to running windows as commercial versions are unavailable on Linux, and it is my hope that more commercial orgs start making their wares available for Linux, especially in cases where there’s no available alternative.
As for splitting hairs on the difference between gratis and libre, life’s too short (so if I used incorrect terminology, c’est la vie…)
I guess you don’t know its difference.
Free software means freedom and not the price. There are paid free software.
By defenition, free software is software that satisfy 4 essential freedoms
Freedom 0: Freedom to run the program any way you want on any of your devices
Freedom 1: To see and study how the program works and change it according to your needs. Source code of the entire program should be visible for this freedom
Freedom 2: Freedom to share copies of the original program(sharing is caring)
Freedom 3: Freedom to share copies of the modified version which you adapted to your needs such that whole community can benefit from your modifications
So yeah this is Free software, and when you say FOSS, its not about the price, but the freedom and control you get with the software. Why is this important? Because theese non-free softwares are taking away our freedom by even limiting “us” from using our “own” devices(DRM, locked bootloader, etc.), and it will be too late to realise how most proprietary softwares we use, and ones we are forced to use, captures our freedom.
FOSS or paid?
Steam Decks?
Steam Decks.
Yes Steam Deck
I’m pretty sure its steam decks
Of course, the steam decks!
Would that show up in browser stats though?
Steam Deck is neat and all but I’ve never thought of it as anybody’s main browsing device.
I used to say the same thing about mobile phones, now look, LOOK HOW WRONG I WAS
Yes but right now?
idk about others but I do use my Steam Deck for web browsing quite heavily. It’s basically my laptop right now.
My journey to Linux pretty much started with the reddit thing. I moved to Lemmy and started slowly eliminating corporations out of my life.
This but corps
I’m going to steal this okay?
Go for it. It was already an old, long dead meme when I posted it here.
same
Me too
For me the turning point was when a failed Windows forced upgrade ended up deleting me important files. I had backups, but I lost days of work because Microsoft felt so insecure in the face of piracy that they had to upgrade my computer despite me constantly telling them not to do so.
That was around 10 years ago. I went through various KDE distros; in the end I settled for Kubuntu.
The recent developments in KDE plasma are excellent. I haven’t had to open a command prompt in years. I hadn’t had a tech problem until this year when my tmp folder got full.
I haven’t had to open a command prompt in years
Awesome!
I’m from the other side, though. I’m a developer and systems administrator on Kubuntu and I live by the command line. I use yakuake, which is totally awesome, and have about 50 or so shells open pretty much permanently, all nicely tucked away in tabs and sub sections in a programmable drop down that automatically starts all those command line shells when my computer boots. It’s pure awesomeness, Linus os pure awesomeness!
Damn, you know, I love automation and customization, and your description sounds awesome. I certainly will jump the gap at some point, but the thought of having to relearn an entire OS and suite of tools, and inevitably make mistakes that will cost me time and -probably- multiple reinstalls discourages me quite a bit. I remember using Fedora 20-something ten years ago on my laptop and the amount of things for which I needed a terminal was overwhelming. I also remember trying to learn file management by copying/backing up files from the terminal, and ending up batch-deleting entire folders worth of pictures. I never had a reliable “readme” for learning all this, that didn’t already assume I knew all the lingo and was proficient in some programming language.
I started using powershell more because it comes with a lot of bash aliases out of the box. Besides a brief period of using ubuntu in like 2006 because my windows install got corrupted, its my first foray into linux. Ive been daily driving debian 12 and i love it. I feel like getting used to the lingo helped ease the transition.
But if you actually use powershell for more than simple tasks and take advantage of its object oriented nature, it might make the switch harder. If you plan to use the command line as little as possible i think the switch is trivial. Your biggest worry is going to be analysis paralysis with all the options, but i just installed debian with the defaults and trying out different desktop environments is really easy and i havent yet had a problem that wasnt simple to solve with a google search.
Try a live USB - you might be surprised how easy and intuitive it is to use now.
Well, I have opened commands prompts, but only because because they’re fast at doing stuff with files and I like that.
But I haven’t NEEDED to open them to fix or configure stuff.
Back in the early 00s that was pretty much par for three course.
I suspect that it’s not Linux that is on the rise, but overall PC market that is shrinking. It’s been a trend for quite a while for non-linux people to dump the PC entirely in favor of using just phone.
The desktop/mobile ratio chart aligns with this
https://gs.statcounter.com/platform-market-share/desktop-mobile-tablet
I remember looking at pc sales data, and they have been shrinking in the last decade, with the curve flattening until the pandemic, when sales grew substantially, almost to the 2000s level. Now it’s shrinking back slowly. I’m not sure if people are abandoning desktops in favor of phones as much as we think. desktops are durable and we tend to have only one, while mobile devices are gaining different forms, and people are getting more of them. Perhaps the desktop market has not much more room to grow while mobile devices are still booming.
But that’s just one possible explanation, I might be wrong. I was going to post the data, but statista requires login to see it.
I don’t know if we know it’s shrinking back for sure. With the exception of Q1’23, there seems to be a balance around 19M sales per quarter. There’s a way to read it as shrinking, but there’s also a way to read it as stabilizing. There’s just not enough samples to be certain.
What we have to remember is that we’re finally reaching a turning point in GPU pricing. Laptops that were in the $2000+ range a year or two ago are closer to the $1000 commodity price. There had been a “value stall” that just broke, where a new computer used to not be a significant upgrade on an old one, and so people might hold onto their current computers a year or two longer.
I mean, I sure I pulled a few discounts out of my ass, but I just landed an i9 laptop with a 4090 for just over $2k as a replacement to a computer that died. Two years ago almost to the day I bought a middle-of-the-road gaming machine with a 3070 in it for about the same price.
And yet here I am looking to expanding my devices with a replacement server (linux) and a NUC (linux).
Finally ditched Windows on the desktop forever, about 7 months ago.
I agree with you on mobile. I my country many ppl ditched laptops and desktops for their phones.
Although I have a hard time understanding how they can actually get some work done on the phone, if they do any work from home that requires a computer. Well those ppl probably have an old laptop laying around.
I don’t know what everyone else’s case is, but my work provides a laptop. None of my home machines have Windows, but the work laptop does.
Yeah, many workplaces here do not offer a laptop, its more of “bring your own device” kinda thing.
But of course, some do.
I wonder at the various nuances of that. My wife and I have 4 phones and 3 tablets between us between home and work. It would seem any multi-person household would be likely to have more mobile devices than PCs due to the variety of the former. So that chart seems to be that there are more mobile devices per person, but perhaps no reduction in PCs.
In fact, PC sales rocketed up in Q3’20 for very obvious reasons, and have largely not come back down to pre-COVID levels.
It’s been a trend for quite a while for non-linux people to dump the PC entirely in favor of using just phone.
Can’t do that if you play games.
Also that’s half of the reason Windows hasn’t lost the war on home desktop PCs yet. Another half is office applications.
Actually, these are thirds.
Another reason making me say so is that no major user-friendly distribution wants to be just that, they all have a particular madness with no good reason for it.
So I don’t know what to recommend, there should be something off the top of my head, but that’d be “just install Debian, it’s fine”.
So, any single reason of these going away would accelerate Linux adoption notably. Any two would make it a trend visible to housewives. And all three would resemble the flight of ICQ users to Skype.
Can’t do that if you play games.
I recently been arguing with some dude about some PUBG mechanics. It took me quite some time to realize that he was playing PUBG mobile, never played the PC version or even knew that it even existed for that matter. For him, PUBG simply meant PUBG mobile. For those people, they don’t even consider using PC for gaming. They might consider console, but PC to them is just more or less a typewriter for school/office tasks.
I’ve been thinking for some time what to answer and concluded that the normie world is a world of pain.
We - as in FOSS OS users and FOSS paradigm users - desperately need open hardware, so that the rest of the industry could eat all the rubber dicks they want without affecting us significantly.
And I mean not only hardware design, but fabs.
It may seem an impossible future, with semiconductor deficit etc, and Taiwan being that important.
And with starting a fab being so expensive.
Still, they only way a conclusive FOSS victory resulting in even balance happens is if there is a public fab producing general-purpose hardware with public design.
Because right now lots of resources are being wasted on catching up in inherently disadvantageous areas, like supporting proprietary hardware which is always harder for FOSS developers than for MS or Apple.
Without full-chain FOSS hardware production it’ll always be bare survival.
What’s Ubuntu’s “particular madness”? They used to be a little FOSS-only, but they’ve chilled out on that.
I agree on the other points, though, with one caveat on both.
No matter how many games run on linux, it won’t be enough because there aren’t ever going to be linux exclusives. Without linux exclusives, there will always be more games that run in Windows than Linux, even if the majority of them run in linux AND run better than in Windows.
Office sounds like a big deal, but Apple managed to prove you don’t need it. The real problem Linux has with office is that it has no well-marketed office suite. There’s nothing wrong with Libre- or Open- except the complete lack of advertising and passive training to its nuances that we get from MS and Apple office products.
It’s not that linux can’t win on games or office. It’s that the game is rigged against it on both. It took me a few years back in the early 00’s, but I quickly realized that there will never be a “year of the linux desktop” regardless of how good Linux gets at games, office, user-friendliness, or anything.
And that’s ok because MY life is easier when I use linux.
What’s Ubuntu’s “particular madness”?
I remember that it does too much, but without specifics. It’s been 4+ years since I touched Ubuntu.
They used to be a little FOSS-only
I vaguely remember that “Amazon lens” for Unity, I don’t think they ever were that much FOSS-only.
No matter how many games run on linux, it won’t be enough because there aren’t ever going to be linux exclusives.
It’s fine. That’d still be goal fulfilled.
Office sounds like a big deal, but Apple managed to prove you don’t need it.
How so?
There’s nothing wrong with Libre- or Open- except the complete lack of advertising and passive training to its nuances that we get from MS and Apple office products.
I recently had a problem with LO, while editing a document with lots of math formulae - from time to time while adding a formula about half of others (in the whole document) would just become empty.
Not sure something like that would happen under Apple suite’s analog of Word, whatever it’s called.
It’s not that linux can’t win on games or office. It’s that the game is rigged against it on both.
With that I agree, somewhere in 2012 I somehow realized that it’s already much better than the alternatives, and yes, for a housewife’s desktop just as well, if one’s honest and thinks of their own needs.
And if one’s comparing it to advertising of the competing commercial products, then it’s hopeless.
On my laptop, I’ve switched to Linux since, despite being built in 2017, doesn’t meet Win 11’s min requirements. This is horseshit, I don’t care how MS explains it or justifies it, there’s nothing wrong with it. I’m sure during development, they realized a 20 year old computer could run Win 11 and decided to make up requirements to force people into buying new PCs.
Anyway, I’m using KDE Neon and I’m loving its ease of use and simplicity. I have barely needed to dive into the terminal to fix anything and KDE Plasma feels very polished and user friendly. To me, it feels like the new “normie-friendly” Linux. And without the horseshit telemetry and Microsoft spying, it’s like a brand new PC.
I’m a sysadmin and we are in the very early stages of rolling out windows 11 to our users. Windows is windows, but I just can’t help but have observations that windows 11 looks like KDE did maybe 10 years ago? It’s like a badly themed linux distro from 2015…
It is arbitrary: my HP Zbook initially offered W11 upgrade, but we use corporate stuff and our software wasn’t certified on W11 yet so I held off. Months later we get a notice that the Zbook no longer meets requirements for W11 LOL
I use Linux (Arch actually) as my daily driver - I’m the MD of a small IT business in the UK. I have at least one employee who is asking me to create a Linux standard deployment to replace Windows because they don’t like it anymore - W11 is quite divisive.
For a corp laptop/desktop you might need Exchange email - so that might be Evolution with EWS. You’ll want “drive letters” - Samba, Winbind and perhaps autofs. You’ll need an office suite - Libre Office works fine. There’s this too: https://cid-doc.github.io/ for more MS integration - if that’s your bag.
I often see people getting whizzed up about whether LO can compete with MSO. I wrote a finite (yes, finite) capacity scheduler for a factory in MS Excel, back in 1995/6 - it involved a lot of VBA and a mass of checksums etc. I used to teach word processing and DTP (Quark, Word, Ventura and others). LO cuts it. It gets on my nerves when I’m told that LO isn’t capable by someone who is incapable of fixing a widow or orphan or for whom leading and kerning are incomprehensible.
I remember back in 2017, I didn’t really need any big desktop apps anymore. All I used was Salesforce, Netsuite, O365, Postman… I asked my company to just give me a Chromebook. Now I hate Chromebooks and I could very much do my job on a Linux distro mainly using web apps if needed.
My IT dept would never allow it because they can’t install security software on it. Obviously I’d be pretty safe from malware, but they’d have to trust that I set up firewalls and password protection because they couldn’t enforce a group policy, and their data loss prevention tools wouldn’t work.
I solved that by social engineering our IT to join my “Windows” computer into the domain, which was actually just a Windows VM. They didn’t notice, and I’m free to Linux away.
I use Arch too, BTW.
I also usw Arch (,btw).
But lately I thpught about checking out nix for a change. I’ve heard some good things about it, but didn’t dare use it.
I feel like nix is kinda like the new arch in a way. Is that true?
This may be a controversial opinion but I would rather use the web version of Outlook than Evolution. I have been trying to use Evolution since the Ximian days but I was never really happy with it. I gave up on it in favour of web Outlook a couple of years ago.
I’ve personally had the best experience with Thunderbird, YMMV.
Wowzer, ok, that’s seriously impressive though, like in 2022 I feel we were stuck at 2-2.5% and in 2023 we passed 3% for the first time and now we’re at almost 4??? That’s like DOUBLING the market share in a year
Nice, at this pace we’ll reach 50% in less than 50 years!
I know it’s a joke, but if linux keeps growing steadly, without saturating, it can reach a point in which it breaks the “I don’t use it because no one else does/ I don’t use it because my software isn’t supported” barrier and start to grow exponentially.
What a great news.
it would be very interesting also the kids had some aknowledge on school about linux, besides windows. Would be open mind to get new apprentices. Besides that, for the normal human being/worker, who only uses PC for internet and office, linux can be taken into account, since it is open source.
I know linux is harder to learn than windows for an average joe, but I guess teaching kids with two OS (windows and linux) give to them more capacity too choose and give them more software/hardware skills
(Im not using linux rn just because imo windows is more stable to edit videos, but in the future, is probably to return to the pinguin)
(Sry about my bad english)
No need to apologize for your English ability.
I have been trying to start a community here where people can ask English questions.
I can see a few mistakes with your grammar and I would be happy to help or answer any questions you may have.
Thats class! Ty for the reply and your help. Sometimes I use translator apps/sites, but I know is not too accurate and I do some corrections (I guess?! Ahah) from these apps/sites. And yeah, other times i just write without any help.
My problem is with grammar plus I dont have too much vocabulary too understand certain things. But, one more time , ty for your help, appreciated a lot!
