Wouldn’t you believe it, everything insults them, everyone is against them.
Then why is conservatism still the most frequent mental disorder!?
John Stuart Mill has this to say:
“I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it. Suppose any party, in addition to whatever share it may possess of the ability of the community, has nearly the whole of its stupidity, that party must, by the law of its constitution, be the stupidest party… It may be said that if stupidity has a tendency to Conservatism, sciolism, or half-knowledge, has a tendency to Liberalism.
I have grown appreciation to respect some conservative ideas. As I grow older, I see why some look for stability. There is plenty of good debate when it comes fiscal responsibility and gradual reformism, but this doesn’t mean I would reject lgbt rights or support gutting welfare. But yes, generally stupid people seem to gravitate in the direction of conservatism or right.
PS. As a left leaning person, I also agree with Jill’s point about liberals but that is a different topic for another time.
The problem with this current sect of conservative cultists is that even though they claim to like those few halfway decent ideals, they actually don’t, because they give zero fucks when elected Republicans actively do the exact opposite, and conversely if a Democrat did what they claim to like, they’d be furious.
Oh, nice! I’m not yet banned from that subreddit!
Lets change that :D
That subreddit is an absolute dumpster fire of stupidity.
Im bombed by leftist propaganda
They are correct, but not how they think. A big part of conservatism, even among the less fanatical, is to bury your head in the sand. I can see how peeking out for some air will seem like a flood of propaganda. Like that “final experiment” that just went down to dunk on flat earth, but for even the most mundane thing about how society works.
That’s not really true. Going to specific places for specific things is very different to putting one’s head in the sand. If you make such assumptions about your opposing tribes you’ll continue to increase social division, and that’s the core of this mess.
I don’t understand how what you said isn’t burying one’s head in the sand
Visiting my family members that are conservative and their friends tell me their head is in the sand. After so long under, any dose of reality is too high for them.
Unfortunately for them, saber rattling quasi dictators pushing Nazi ideologies, consorting with admitted neo Nazis, frequently spewing Nazi quotes, and doing the actual fucking Nazi salute… Kinda invades and consumes everyone’s life.
And they sure don’t want you to bring it up. I can only guess because either they themselves are Nazis, or because they don’t want to feel or admit responsibility for the human scum they vote for.
The issue isn’t fucking “social division”.
It’s that one of the established American political parties went bat shit crazy and abandoned every principle they ever had in the naked pursuit of bigotry and power.
Any time you spread “both sides” bullshit, *you’re aiding a hard-right propaganda machine *
It’s that one of the established American political parties went bat shit crazy
People have been saying this about the GOP since Goldwater. The Republicans aren’t going batshit crazy. This has always been their platform. This has always been their policy. For 60 years running. The party of the Southern Strategy and the Red Scare hasn’t materially changed. It’s the Democrats (or, at least, the rank and file of the party) that has shifted from edgy white middle class GenX shitlibs to gender fluid, racially mixed, multicultural dirt poor Zoomers.
This much the Crowderverse absolutely has right. The progressive wing of the Democratic Party is breaking away from the traditional small-c conservative evangelical white nationalist roots. Biden/Harris campaigned like Bill Clinton and lost because their base no longer has a stomach for Clintonian liberalism.
Meanwhile, the Republican base isn’t changing. They’re being Based and Trad and trying to replicate all the moods of the 1950s, absent an economy powered by trillions in new post-war cheap public capital. So they’re just grasping scams, losing a bunch of money, growing increasingly economically anxious, blaming migrants/transgender tweens/Chinese TikTok dances, and doubling down on old school American fascism.
Any time you spread “both sides” bullshit, *you’re aiding a hard-right propaganda machine *
There’s no shame in recognizing a social divide that’s expanding over time. But there’s a fundamental difference between buying into right-wing hysteria about shoplifting gangs or transgender Mexican ISIS and acknowledging that your Boomer parents/grandparents are drowning in their own nostalgia while you’re moving on to greener ideological pastures.
Your perspective confuses and intrigues me
the post of the previous commenter was nuanced.
usually it is a good thing, but since the far-right is blatantly nazi, there are some risk with “nuance”
overall, the previous comment seems to be analyzing how this divide is happening.
my only complaint is that the comment doesn’t make clear who are the fuckers who are dirving the social divide (spoilers: the right who is nostaligic about the post-war period and want to create a “new” post war period by, well, going full nazi)
Weevil has some hot takes but I don’t really disagree with this one. You could rephrase it as “times are changing and conservatives don’t want to change” and no one would deny it.
Agreed about who’s creating those wedge issues as well but I’ll even get conspiratorial and blame shadowy right-wing think tanks.
Going to specific places for specific things is very different to putting one’s head in the sand.
Going to /r/politics and panicking because its not politics I like is putting one’s head in the sand.
Nah, they’ll probably flee to one of those alt-right dollar store reddit replacements that popped up a few years ago. Assuming they are still in operation.
Cries about propaganda inside of a propaganda sub. r/Conservative users are an incredible bunch.
They need their safe space away from all those bullies 😭
I read some of their garbage. They are in total denial as usual. They think it’s all bots, apparently can’t comprehend that so many people would be revolted by nazis.
Of course. They can’t accept that they’re the weirdos.
They can stick to !conservative@lemm.ee, I don’t mind them when in their own space. Crazies have truthless social anyway.
Nah fuck that they already have their own space and even whole platforms, Xitter, Facebook/Instagram, and “Truth” Social
I mean I left that cesspool a while ago, but reddit being to liberal has fuckall to do with why I left it.
They’re already here, coming in hot with wonderful takes like
!conservative@lemmy.world if anyone wants to drop downvotes
According to .ml, .world is supposed to be an echo chamber, but yet allows shithole misinformation spreading comms like that
No need to brigade other people for disagreeing with you. If their views are harmful, their community will get banned by lemmy.world so it’s not your problem.
My screenshot is literally of harmful misinformation
community will get banned by lemmy.world so it’s not your problem.
LMAO I’ve been waiting for that to happen for months
It’s hateful bs, but it isn’t harmful. It’s a stupid take on a current talking point from the orange admin. It’s not picking on anyone. Wait for the actually harmful stuff, like misgendering people and racism and simply downvote this particular dumbass comment. (I’m going by the headline / subj, as I’m already exhausted from this week’s bullshit.)
The kind of misinformation I posted a screenshot of (which btw is an actual “article” they’re spreading around) is how the groundwork gets laid for the “actually” harmful stuff, so in essence it is harmful because it will enable them to do far more harmful crap later. Or rather allow them to get away with it.
Ok, but it’s also easily debunkable, and you can’t moderate away stupid. What they posted isn’t illegal misinformation according to EU law. I’d rather they do their misinformation in a community here than on Twitter or Truth Social.
“Thing That Obviously Exists and Has Existed Historically Isn’t Real”
Lol, the sub seems to be completely blocked on my instance. Hell yeah
Yeah, but the feed is full of actual articles like “Climate change is real and there’s so much proof” and “Clarence Thomas wants to end freedom of the press”
Welcome to Lemmy, shitheads, have some facts.
My instance doesn’t block very much, so I made sure to block that one myself.
.ml complaining about being an echo chamber. I didn’t realize today was comedy day all around the political spectrum.
If you block Amoxtli then about 90% of conservative posts go away.
Thanks for the tip! Checked their post history and promptly blocked them.
I prefer to tag rather than block so I can still call out/down out their BS
Also don’t forget that Kaboom guy too!
Kaboom’s account is from reddthat where they disabled down votes. I don’t think they have any clue how rejected their opinions are. Talk about snowflake.
If I picked an instance without downvotes for my agenda-posting account, I think on some level I’d know there were grumpy clicks headed my way
They’ve tried a few times on their own instances (ExplodingHeads). They got purged and defederated so fast that they gave up as I’ve not seen more than 1 or 2 spammers shown up since.
Funny, that’s exactly the inverse of how I feel anytime I check in on Reddit, but I was subscribed to a lot of conspiracy subreddits.
They didn’t used to be like that 😢
r/thedonald really was a plague.
I know the de facto attitude in the fediverse is to slag off Reddit, but I worry that they have a target on their back now. They are one of the last few big places online for Americans where left leaning and progressive thought predominates. It won’t surprise me if Ketamine Nazi/Trump and the MAGA crowd make them a public enemy soon.
Good, then they’ll come here. Only thing this place is missing is users.
I wouldn’t even say that. Lemmy feels pretty alive imho. But I guess if the rest of the sane reddit users come here, I would welcome them.
Actually I‘m pretty stoked for every antisocial media to become a fascist hellhole since its much easier to get them banned outright by the eu that way. ;)
Better interaction here, but lots of posts with 0 comments
Which I dont mind either. Thats how natural communication works. Not everything is interesting or worth discussing.
But I get it. Everybody likes different things. Thanks for mentioning it.
Idc if they come here. I won’t see them.
getting spammed with Bluesky
This is such a weird sentiment. As though links to any information outside the walled garden is inherently worthless.
every subreddit has been astroturfed to the extreme
Hi, hello, yes. Welcome to the year 2016.
They equate bluesky with leftists because its where most peopme went when twitter got too racist, and because now a lot of subreddits have banned links to twitter altogether.
Generally (reddit) cons don’t even want stuff from outside their own sub, so it makes sense why they’d hate any bluesky links
I’m gonna say that I’m happy for everyone to have their own, public and community run social media. Those without harmful views are welcome to participate in discussions, and those with harmful view may be banned but eventually mature past those harmful views by being outside of elon/Russia misinformation chambers.
I worry that all banning does is push people into the echo chambers that started this whole thing to begin with. We don’t want assholes causing problems for everyone, but locking them out only deepens their resolve.
Hard disagree. We come from a time where there was no place for everyone to share their views, people were okay. They had their bubbles (they were called pubs) and read their newspaper.
Then we formed one place for everyone to be (or a couple walled gardens) and those started getting people riled up and fighting. But it was the algorithm that loves engagement (eg fight) that drove them apart.
I love the idea of being back and in the pubs where you can just be with your friends and you just dont go to the nazi pub.
Yes, banning is great. Free speech absolutism can suck my cock.
and read their newspaper.
Even at the height of yellow journalism, the results were better than what we have now. Newspapers have to write for a mass audience. That’s much less effective than the algorithm-driven micro-targeting we have now.
Exactly. Thank you for chiming in. People haven‘t the faintest what antisocial media does to them.
We come from a time where there was no place for everyone to share their views, people were okay
Counterpoint - mainstream discourse and consensus was way more bigoted in the 90s, and the rise of the internet probably had something to do with that changing.
I dont think your point is valid.
Yes, there were a couple (less manipulated) news papers that drove popular opinion and it was easier to bury information. That part I‘m with you.
But the „mainstream discourse“ did not exist until the huge platforms came up. Germany didnt read the new york times and hans müller did not talk to john smith back then.
As I mentioned in another comment: yes, informarion spreads a lot faster and is practically unstoppable which is awesome. But nowadays you can bury it in disinformation. Especially without fact checkers, mods and using bot armies.
The initial point was that banning/blocking (users) is a great skill since we can exclude parties we deem unbecoming to our neighborhood. This is called freedom of association and a central pillar to the fediverse, which makes it crazy resilient.
I have silenced bigots who were undermining people saying trans rights arent human rights. This is the world I live in.
Sometimes I use another account and verbally beat up bigots. But in my daily life i surround myself with constructive content. You dont need to do the same but I can tell you it is very nice.
It just seems like you’re saying that things were better back then, because people had less ability to express themselves, but regardless of the logic about what affects what, they objectively weren’t better, and because of that your point doesn’t make sense to me.
I do see that you can only view it that way. I‘m sorry but thats nothing I can change.
I did say (and mean) that its great to be able to ban people from your feed because you dont want to hear their shit. Thats it. Yes, you can try to mental gymnastic that into „old is better“ but its not real. That just happens in your head.
Again, I love the fediverse and federation is awesome. But federation is not forced and that is called freedom of association. I dont need to talk to anyone, i dont need to listen to anyone. I can choose who to talk to.
Some people - i call them bigots - like to suggest that people need to listen to everything. That is bullshit. Its how brainwashing and gaslighting works. The reason we have issues with out current media is because you can be forced to listen/see stuff you dont want to. This is a dystopia if i have ever seen one.
Another misconception is that whatever political adversary chose to be radicalized and driven insane (think fascists and theocrats). Thats not the case. It is constant ingoring of their personal boundaries by bigots who tell them that god is their savior and immigrants are the enemy. If you take away that influence (or give people the choice to do it themaelves), they will come back to sanity.
Therefore, the fediverse is fantastic as it is. Banning, private instances, individual moderation or not, etc. Everyone who says different is either naive or a bigot.
I’m thinking mostly of when you said
We come from a time where there was no place for everyone to share their views, people were okay. They had their bubbles (they were called pubs) and read their newspaper.
I’m not sure how else to interpret that, seemed pretty straightforward, that your argument hinges on the idea that the internet allowing people to share their views made things worse, but feel free to clarify
Fascism wasn’t invented on social media. Neither was imperialism, monarchy, or slavery.
Wonderful example for my point. I dont need to listen to trolls. I can just ban them.
Edit: one addition. I always check if someone does usually make sane posts and we might just disagree here or gotten off on the wrong foot. But being a lazy human I love an account with no posts and more than a thousand comments in a couple months. Definitely no troll, no sir! ;)
