Musk:
-supposedly has autism
-autistic people sometimes make weird faux paus
To me, it looks like it’s clearly a Hitler salute and the logical conclusion is he’s a white supremacist. But I am just wondering if everyone else sees this that way with no room for it being a result of autism and definitely that.
Is there any possibility it could have been accidental? Or was he doing a Hitler salute, then “oh it was an accident” (wink) sort of thing? Did he apologize?
Lots of people on lemmy are really smart so I’m interested to read what people think.
The whole thing makes me really uncomfortable with buying from companies that have x profiles. I just don’t see how that coukd be accidental and it seems like no one cares.
There was this period before WWII when stuff started happening to reduce the rights of minorities, but they weren’t being killed blatantly. Is this where we are? I feel more scared to be in America now.
Honesty here. The autistic argument is really offensive to people with autism, I asked a friend with high functioning autism about his opinion. It mistreats the condition to transform it into a political scapegoat. It misrepresents what autism is. Elon is not autistic, he’s is just a narcissist and always high on ketamine. I’ve met dozens of autistic persons, and not even once has anyone ever done the Nazi salute on accident, not even on highly euphoric social events. To suggest the autistic apology makes the person mentioning it sound awfully ableist and like an asshole. I suggest you don’t ever mention it out loud to anyone ever again. It’s insidious and dehumanizing against people with cognitive issues.
i wasn’t trying tonbe offensive, sorry
when i viewed it, it looked like a nazi salute
but based on reactions and a lack of extreme across rhe board condemnation, I wondered if there was some strange explanation that wasn’t apparent to me
Musk says he has Asperger’s, a type of high funxtioning autism i thought (but may be mistaken about). I just thought this could be the only possible explanation for such unusual behavior if it wasn’t just white supremacy, and even then it seemed unlikely to me.
I’m also not that knowledgable about autism. I just have a hard time understanding the mild reaction it’s getting.
There’s a mild reaction from media because media conglomerates are on board with the plan. Commentators made up the autistic apology immediately on the spot, because they’re ableist and assholes themselves.
It’s like media excusing sexual predators because they had a rough life growing up gay and similar excuses. It’s a double whammy, excusing the offender in the public light while simultaneously demonizing a minority. It’s a playbook neo fascist move.
He definitely did a Hitler salute, but I don’t think he meant it as one. Also, I think old-school nazis would’ve berated him for it being a shitty one.
Looking at the clip, and hearing what he said, I think he meant it as “my heart goes out to you” - his exact words when he said it. But it’s quite telling that he instinctively used that gesture and saw nothing wrong about it.
It is both a literal neonazi salute as shown in this example with the hand over heart and even without that the thrusting motion to outstretched arm on its own is blatantly obvious. Stop giving this shithead a single crumb of doubt.
i think this was rhe most persuasive reply because of the visual juxtaposition
musk is a nazi. now what?
We already knew. The important thing OP pondered on was the reflexive nature of it. I agree with OP, not certain that was planned, the fascist just came out.
Constantly bring it up, never let it go.
Y’all don’t even read these posts, do you?
it’s quite telling that he instinctively used that gesture
OP nailed it. I doubt his dumbass went up there intending to throw that, but the gesture is clearly part of his “vocabulary”. It’s both hilarious and sad that people think Musk and Trump work with deep calculation.
But of course, you feel OP is defending Musk, or at least giving him the benefit of the doubt. So we get treated to pic #516 comparing salutes. We know.
Thank you, you said it better than I ever could.
“You know what, I’m gonna throw a heil Hitler on stage, teehee”
…yeah, probably not.
Along the lines of my thoughts.
it’s quite telling that he instinctively used that gesture
There it is. People that don’t go walking around saying N*****, don’t accidentally slip it into conversation. Same here. Even if unintentional in the moment, well, he obviously walks around saying N*****. That gesture was clearly part of his “vocabulary”. You get it.
And if it was merely an exuberant, “Fuck yeah!” thing, damn near every American ever would have done it with a fist. Been walking America for 54 years, never seen that salute unless it was a jokey “Heil Hitler” move.
And… of course lemmy downvotes you for trying to discuss this. Comrade, you must immediately and perfectly toe the party line. That first sentence made these morons think you’re a sympathizer. We don’t read past the first phrase around here. If you had put your last sentence first, you would have been golden. (Gods, lemmy users are child’s play to manipulate.)
i am not always well liked on lemmy
i still like lemmy! :-)
You (presumably) use linux, you get a pass from me.
Yea sure - but it doesn’t matter. It could have mattered but his reaction to the reaction means it doesn’t.
If you accidentally do a nazi salute and then someone says “Hey bro, you really shouldn’t do a nazi salute” and another dude says “Hey bro, white power! I’m glad you’re on our side” and your immediate reaction isn’t “Oh fuck guys, I didn’t know that was a nazi salute, I fucking hate nazis” then, well, you did a nazi salute.
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Elon did a thing.
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People said “That’s a nazi thing”.
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Elon didn’t immediately say “No, I didn’t do the nazi thing.”
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∴ Elon is a nazi.
It’s also not like the fucker doesn’t have the ability to issue a statement correcting the public perception. He literally owns fucking X and the media salivate over his press releases.
Elon didn’t immediately say “No, I didn’t do the nazi thing.”
He did though: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1881746484229763524. My hypothesis: he practiced this and realized what reaction it would cause, and did it simply to hype himself up. The whole inauguration event in people minds is now associated with Elon doing “sieg heil” while being high on ketamine.
I’m not seeing him saying it. He did a “what about” and then blamed the media.
Also those are static images he’s showing. A video of those images would show very different hand motions.
I also couldn’t find him directly denying it, and you’re correct those examples in referenced image are no good - in the comments there are video versions of those showing none of them looking anywhere similar to what he did. There are other videos of Macron and Camala doing some gesture, but they are fetching their hand far up in front of them in more of a waving to audience way, so it doesn’t look like nazi salute.
<inAnAlternateReality>
Elon did a thing.
People said “That’s a nazi thing”.
Elon immediately said “No, I didn’t do the nazi thing.”
People said “we don’t believe you”.
∴ Elon is a nazi.
First time in years I’ve seen the ‘therefor’ three dots!
∴ - copying to notes as I don’t think it’s available on Android keyboards.
I always just search the web for “<symbol> unicode” when I need something obscure. Then again I’m old ;_;
I’m British and I tried to plug something into it.
Don’t you know? Plugs go in the rear.
I didn’t even know it existed in the first place. I’m going to show my grandfather and see if he’s seen it before. I expect he has since he’s a retired english/history teacher
edit: he has seen it before, but he couldn’t remember what it meant.
It’s crazy to me that people are denying it.
If you accidentally do a nazi salute and then someone says “Hey bro, you really shouldn’t do a nazi salute”
I like to think about how a person like that would react if they accidentally “acted gay”. Can you imagine how much they would trip over themselves trying to make sure people knew it was a mistake?
If you don’t have that level of response to being called a Nazi, you’re probably a Nazi.
Point of order. He didn’t do a Nazi salute. He did two, within five seconds, on national television, at the inauguration.
You would think the crowd of people would have stepped in at that point but clearly they’re all in as well.
And if they work that hard to make sure everyone knows they’re not gay, then bonus! You also found out that they’re homophobic.
No, I don’t agree with this at all.
I grew up in the 90s when being gay was “bad” (societys words, not mine). I live in Cleveland, but a suburb of Cleveland is Lakewood. San Fransisco is Americas gayest city. Lakewood is (was?) Americas second gayest city (at least in the 90s it was).
I lived right on the Lakewood border. About 7 streets away. And just to give an idea of how anti-gay the 90s were, I can remember a guy getting handcuffed to a chain link fence, and beaten by 4 men with bats. Beaten to literal death. With his dead body lay prone and still handcuffed from 2:30am until 7am on a busy street until a mother called the police as she walked her 5 year old to school (this was 2 blocks from an elementary school)
That’s the environment I grew up in. People CONSTANTLY accused me of being gay. I’m not. I never have been gay. But I grew up being taught you better make sure you deny it. If nothing else, so people don’t beat you.
Now I realize, we no longer live in that social environment. But I also assume Jews in Europe in the 1960s still would downplay the fact they were Jewish. Sure, the nazis weren’t a thing anymore, but if you’d seen the holocaust you wouldn’t take chances either.
Plus, being a teenager in the 90s, I thought “If the girls think I’m gay, I’ll never get laid…” which was true. They still thought I was gay, and I didn’t get to date until after high school.
And thats how I stay today. I have enough of an uphill battle to dating. I don’t need women disqualifying me for something that isn’t true.
Now if YOU wanna be gay, go ahead. I always think if more guys are gay, that makes things easier for me.
I’m not saying that just because someone says you’re gay, you can’t correct them without being homophobic. I’m saying that the people that people that go out of their way to make sure everyone knows they’re not gay, who get offended at the idea of being mistaken for gay are acting homophobic.
I grew up in approximately the same era as you in a very conservative area, and yeah, there was a lot of homophobic behavior and slurs. But if someone asked if I was gay in this day and age, I think anything more than a quick correction is over-reacting.
But hey, that’s just my opinion; you’re welcome to yours. Have a good day friend!
Based on your persuasive arguments, ive decided to be gay.
Good choice. We have the best sex.
That’s so gay
This is the weirdest homophobic and also misogynistic take I’ve read. You took “I’ve got nothing against the gaus, but…” to a new deranged level.
He’s like only part way there. I grew up in the 90s too when being gay was “bad”. In my younger years I would have absolutely said I’m not homophobic but would have made damn sure no one thought I was. Spoiler alert. It was homophobic even if I didn’t realize it. However in my older years I recognize that for what it was.
Great comparison.
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No. In my opinion.
He has demonstrated a propensity for political action up to and including world changing meddling in democracies.
His person demands enough yearly salary from Tesla to cure cancer.
He cites history and in my recollection claims no ignorance of history.
It may be technically possible that it was a faux pas, but it is not feasibly a faux pas and is inexcusable even if it was one.
Have you actually watched it? It was clearly a fascists/nazi salute. People who say otherwise simply don’t want to admit it.
I did watch it and it scared me. No companies are cancelling twitter accounts, no one is crushing their Teslas into a cube, everyone just seems apathetic (except AOC)
I thought it looked kind of like he was flailing like an idiot. If it was a nazi salute (which is definitely possible) then it was a poorly done one (which tracks for him).
This. It’s the new litmus test for Nazi apologists.
I have very little doubt after seeing his hat months ago
is this real?
What is that barely readable font?
I saw comparisons to a hitler book.
Looks like Harry Potter.
He has been a public figure for over a decade and has a dedicated PR team. He knew exactly what he was doing. I have autism, I know what it is like, there is no chance I would ever do this.
A detail of note is that he denies having autism and prefers the term aspbergers which is not recognized by the DSM-5. This is interesting begans Hans Aspberger was an ardent eugenicist with nazi ties. Elon Musk is a fascist and has been for a long time.
Damn, I had no clue about the links between Asperger’s and the Nazi scientist. It’s a good thing that it’s not a diagnosis anymore, because of the whole nazi science thing.
A detail of note is that he denies having autism and prefers the term aspbergers which is not recognized by the DSM-5. .
Honestly more likely reason is that he was diagnosed with Asperger’s before DSM-5, which was released only 12 years ago, and is just more comfortable with the term over autism which is unfortunately often used in a derogatory manner.
But that’s an interesting note regardless hehe
Yes, it’s possible, but he’s a spoiled right wing idiot edge lord, so I’d take it at face value.
He was meddling with the afd in Germany, he’s proudly supports the apartheid in South Africa, and did a Nazi salute…
I mean, do we really need to spell it out for fucks sake?
it has nothing to do with being autistic, however he was fucking zooted on ketamine during ceremony. I doubt that he’s ever sober as of lately.
Drug usage can fuck up people good or bring out what’s hiding real deep in them, see Kanye’s story with nitrous. And that’s precisely why he’s dangerous, he is powerful and deranged at the same time.
The main issue is that his heil combined with his previously expressed opinions and actions removes all doubt
Honestly, I’m not entirely convinced it was a Nazi salute. I think, given how stupid and award he is, and the fact that the salute was so off-angle, it could have actually been an ackward “my heart goes out to you” gesture.
That said, focusing on this possible red flag is stupid and honestly makes light of the situation, when looking at Elon Musk’s history and past statements is like standing in the Red Square on parade day. The bigger and more undeniable red flags are all throughout his past, and continued after the salute, such as his refusal to apologize. I guess its good that people are finally putting their foot down, but the appropriate time was a decade ago at least.
This is overly charitable given his strong and consistent support of the extreme right
Failing to see it is dangerously naive at best
The fact that he is openly a nazi-supporting white supremist is the only reason I say I’m not confident it was an accident.
But again, my whole second paragraph: Why does it matter if it was a roman salute or not? Why do we need to point to this specifically? We knew he was a Nazi before this and had clearer proof to point to then, and since then, he has not changed at all and continues to provide clearer proof. If doing a iffy, off-angle roman salute is what worries you and not the racism, sexism, homophobia, misinformation, lack of respect for human rights or justice, ect. then I think you’re misunderstanding why Nazis are bad.
There are people who realised musk is awful many years ago, and there are people who will keep cheering even if there are tesla branded concentration camps, and people all along the gradient between.
The reason it’s useful to call out the apparent nazi salute is that some additional people might now notice that perhaps that musk guy isn’t great. They didn’t notice the twitter stuff, or the trump support or all the other things, but this is pretty obvious.
The idea that we should just go “well, we already knew he was a nazi supporter, no need to comment when he does an apparent nazi salute on the inauguration of the president he bought” is pretty silly
The reason it matters is because if you use faulty evidence (or in this case, questionable evidence) to try and sway someone, it just makes you look untrustworthy as Elon claims everyone who criticizes him is, and risks entrenching them against you. If you’re making statements with complete certainty, you need to have near-unassailable evidence.
The idea that we should just go “well, we already knew he was a nazi supporter, no need to comment when he does an apparent nazi salute on the inauguration of the president he bought” is pretty silly
The point isn’t to ignore it. The point is be honest to the truth, including any uncertainty. Jumping to conclusions or acting like you’re certain when you’re not only serves to weaken your position. If you’re trying to prove Elon is a Nazi, you should point to all the statements in support of Nazi ideology and his complete refusal to condem it even when relevant, rather than something that could just be regular stupidity.
Any normal (read: not a fascist piece of trash) person who mistakenly made that kind of gesture would be mortified and would be tripping over themselves to clarify/correct/apologize.
Read my comment.
The bigger and more undeniable red flags are all throughout his past, and continued after the salute, such as his refusal to apologize.
No way he didn’t know what het was doing. He hesitates before he does it the first time, then when he get’s a positive reaction he does it the second time. This was deliberate and from what I can see many people in the the US are underreacting to it big time.
To me, that hesitation seemed more like a pause at the end of a paragraph, and the second salute, if it was so, less confident than the first (esspecially given that he bent his arm the second time). I’m not confident it wasn’t an intentional Nazi salute, but I’m also not confident it was, which is why I err on the side of caution. I believe we should assume innocence unless guilt can be proven.
That said, this is why I felt the need to include the second paragraph. We shouldn’t be focused on the time Elon did something wrong with plausible deniability nor should we be particularly concerned that others aren’t more upset. Our focus should instead be on the fact that he has made numerous statements and taken actions that support racism, sexism, classism, misinformation and conspiracy theories, ect. and supported others who represent these values. Our fury should be at the people who ignored these far more direct and unambiguous statements, and have continued to ignore them for over a decade.
Let me ask you something: what kind of person makes that kind of obvious faux pas on the stage at the inauguration of the President of the United States of America then doesn’t try to clarify or correct people who say it was a Nazi salute?
Any normal person would be mortified, and tripping over themselves to explain themselves or apologize. I would say that his actions (or more accurately, inaction) after the gesture cements it for me that there is zero point zero percent possibility that this was not intentional.
You are a fool if you believe otherwise.
A refusal to apologize doesn’t mean it was intentional originally, esspecially when trying to appeal to his Nazi friends. Elon Musk is deep enough in the far right that he knows how to do a roman salue (IE not sideways and not with a bent arm).
Watch it again. It seems there is a split second hesitation before the first salute. Followed by a “let’s just get that done full force” move. Kinda like people that are about to do a stunt the first time. One last “are we really going to try that?”. It kinda implies intent and also that there is some sanity left there to make these decisions. Which gives me hope it’s just Putin having a video of him and he is acting under duress. So definitively an intentional Nazi salute. Should try that in Germany and see how fast he gets arrested for that shit.
Nope, I doubt Putin had a thing to do with it. Musk is the richest man on earth living in the USA, he’s the closest you can possibly be to being completely immune from all consequences short of having bulletproof skin.
This a detail I haven’t seen many others pick up on. The guy hyped himself up on doing it, then went for it with gusto.
Which gives me hope it’s just Putin having a video of him and he is acting under duress.
What the fuck does this even mean? Why are people giving this man so many undeserved benefits of the doubt?
I guess if I am nit-picking, it’s very hard for a statistician to claim anything as having a zero possibility… of course a statement like that helps no one. These are my actual thoughts:
non-zero possibility
It is technically possible that Musk’s gesture was not a Nazi salute but rather something that looks similar. Fun fact, this is something that happened with S. Korea’s Megalian hand gesture issue (for example see this case: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2621gzvkdo), where ppl found the gesture in a lot of unexpected places. However, the Megalian gesture is a pretty common hand movement, whereas the Nazi salute… I mean I guess it could happen due to a really bad out-of-context dance choreography?? But that clearly wasn’t Musk’s case
“But I am just wondering if everyone else sees this that way with no room for it being a result of autism and definitely that.”
… I mean maybe?? I have weird Autistic intrusive thoughts sometimes but even then this is a bit… Honestly though, I don’t know if I should put any respect to someone who willingly know what a Nazi salute is, and then choose to do it in front of one of the most important political events in the world, twice in a row nontheless. I find it hard to believe such an act to be a faux pass and non-intentional. Heck even if it is completely unintentional, this would be ground for job termination and put on a blacklist for life for most job positions I know
“Is this where we are? I feel more scared to be in America now.”
Yeah I know… I seriously wonder why I am still in the US as well.
It doesn’t matter.
It REALLY doesn’t matter.
If he was doing a Nazi salute, the consequences are obvious. If he was doing something “like” a Nazi salute but can plausibly deny it, the result is exactly the same; and that means that the intent is the same, even if it is proven (magically!) that it wasn’t a Nazi salute.
This is the result:
The Nazis of the world all saw it, and took it as a sign of unity. Nothing else matters.
Now Musk may or not may be autistic, but I know several autistic people (plus one with Tourette Syndrome, long ago) and you know what? Not a single one of them has done anything like a Nazi salute.
“Heil Hitler” as a phrase and a salute is fairly unique: It is something that is absolutely burned into the memory of most of humanity, regardless of language, culture, or society. Nobody with Musk’s worldly knowledge and experience would accidentally do something that close to a Nazi salute. Hell, an eight year old from Latvia wouldn’t accidentally do something like that. The knowledge and the taboo are absolutely burned into our collective consciousness.
There is absolutely zero chance whatsoever that Musk didn’t know what he was doing.
And even if that’s true, it honestly doesn’t matter.
It doesn’t matter.
It REALLY doesn’t matter.
Best way I saw it expressed: If you did something that was NOT a nazi salute, but other people perceived it as a nazi salute, you would IMMEDIATELY apologise and walk it back. Given that Muskolini has not done that, he did indeed do a nazi salute.
First time I’ve seen “Muskolini.” It’s so obvious, but I never would have thought of it myself.
