(not asking for advice, just a thought that popped into my head)
I understand that medical injuries are a factor in something like a missing caution sign, but how is it that someone can sue and win in a case of common sense when a company has no sign? For example, many companies use signs so they are not liable for theft at say a public laundromat but some don’t have this. How do they avoid a lawsuit when they don’t have a sign even though it is common sense? What type of law protects a customer when a business lacks a sign and allows them to win against a business owner?
In my region ( USA), ordinary people simply don’t have the resources for individual lawsuits like this.
It would have to be a well connected or monied individual to have any chance. Or the situation is so egregious and documented enough, that a law firm thinks it can make money, by taking most of the winnings from the victims
It actually IS common in the US where I am. All over in local news but on stories in many other states. Like caution Hot on McDonald’s coffee was a lawsuit but I think they ended up settling. I was just asking for example based on what people can tell me about fair business practices laws and how they might apply since I am lacking on law literacy and was curious. But I’m guessing it really only works against big organizations that usually end up settling anyway to avoid the bad publicity. I was just curious how a lawyer would win.
Like caution Hot on McDonald’s coffee was a lawsuit but I think they ended up settling.
The lady tried to get McDonald’s to cover her medical bills for the coffee melting her labia shut and they refused. That is why she ended up getting a massive settlement, because McDonald’s had a massive number of severe injuries from their unsafe coffee temps over years.
The McDonald’s coffee thing was because it was way hotter than necessary, and caused severe burns. So not as frivolous as it was made to seem.
that a law firm thinks it can make money
This is unfortunately rather common in the USA, specifically the issue of nuisance-value lawsuits: https://scholarship.law.nd.edu/law_faculty_scholarship/351/
So even without a meritorious lawsuit, a law firm can extract what is essential a ransom, because for a targeted business or individual, they would have to pay their own way for a defense attorney, taking time to go to court, and all sorts of other headaches. It can indeed seem reasonable to just pay a few thousand dollars to the attacking law firm just to make them go away.
Even if one jurisdiction were to implement some of those proposed solutions to nuisance-value lawsuits, there are 50 US States and the federal courts, so pernicious law firms can just go forum shopping.
I see this in my own field as patent trolls.
Not ordinary people, and relatively rare per capita; but the population is big enough to have many parasites; or a very proficient few based on what they practice.
My life would be easier professionally if the top ten patent trolls went out of business nationally
You’re going to have to clarify what jurisdiction, since USA law is going to be vastly different than EU law, in the realms of product, medical devices, and public accommodations liability.
But if we did examine the USA, then we can find some generalized rules. For product liability – the responsibility of manufacturers and distributors of a tangible object – strict liability will lay when a product has an inherent defect (meaning it didn’t become defective after the initial sale) and this defect causes some sort of injury. Although this criteria doesn’t depend on the frequency of injuries, if a product is accumulating a body count, that’s usually a good sign that there’s a defect. Causality is also important to establish, as well as any mitigations that may have existed. On this front, a manufacturer might argue that the warnings in the instruction manual specifically advised against diving headlong into a 30 cm deep swimming pool. And although warning consumers to not do something may be somewhat effective at discharging liability, warnings alone do not prevent someone from trying a lawsuit anyway; the popular wisdom that the “pages of warnings” in manuals are written by lawyers is only partly true, since most manufacturer prefer repeat business by customers that are still alive.
Medical product liability is similar, but slightly different because medical products are built for a specific purpose but a doctor can instruct a patient to use it differently, if medically appropriate. If not used as instructed by the manufacturer, the manufacturer is usually off the hook, but the doctor might be liable for medical malpractice. Maybe. Doctor liability in the USA is framed within a “duty of care”, meaning that the doctor takes on a responsibility to act with a reasonable degree of skill and competency. The “standard of care” idea is related, in that it sets the floor for what is reasonable for all doctors. It is, for example, grossly negligent to a drunk doctor to examine a patient. Harms from such negligence can be litigated through a malpractice suit. But this doesn’t mean all harm is actionable. A successful appendectomy that results in blood sepsis is always going to be a possibility, even with the best infection controls in place. If all the staff discharged their duties within their training, then negligence does not attach. Also, malpractice is not something which can be waived, because even if a patient doesn’t sue, a doctor’s medical license can be suspended. Whereas the risks of a surgery can be described in detail to a patient, for informed consent.
Finally, public accommodations law sets the floor for how public and private businesses conduct themselves if they provide goods or services to the general public. Very prominently in this realm is accessibility requirements, which are rules that assure the disabled will not have undue burdens that able-bodied people wouldn’t also face. The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) provides for very stiff fines for non-compliance, and because its objective was to set the standard, there is no provision for a “fix it ticket” approach for enforcement. That is to say, the ADA does not allow business owners to wait until a wheelchair user makes a complaint; they must follow the standard from day 1.
No doubt there is abuse of the liability laws – there’s nothing more American than filing “ambitious” lawsuits – and this is just a brief (and uncited, '“from the hip”) summary of possible areas of law that might answer your question. But I hope it gives you an idea of why a warning or sticker or sign might incur liability. Or at the very least, an unexpected lawsuit from left-field.
So it seems like if health or safety or disability is not involved it is much harder. If a Laundromat has a sign that says they are not liable for unattended clothing that is stolen that would save them. How are they liable if it is a case where there is no sign?
Approximately 90% of not liable for X signs have no legal basis. It’s purely a deterrent.
IANAL, and lawsuits almost always end up being very fact-intensive, which means that the specifics of the case often make the difference. So it’ll depend. But broadly speaking, if there isn’t a specific law – eg ADA – that specifically assigns liability, then the most typical claim someone would try to make is a theory of negligence. That is, failure of the laundromat to behave with a reasonable degree of care.
In the absence of signage or disclaimers or waivers (like in some amusement park rides), the jury will have to assess whether this laundromat’s environment suggested some heightened sense of security (eg security cameras, even fake ones) or that management implied or leaned into marketing that made it sound like clothes wouldn’t be stolen there. But a typical coin-op laundromat has people going in and out at all times of day, so it’s not reasonable to think it’s akin to Fort Knox, even without a sign indicating that management disclaims liability for clothes theft.
As for posting that sign, it won’t change the general lack of liability on the laundromat in a case where someone snatches clothing. But the equation is different if, say, a patron asked a staff member to watch their laundry for 5 minutes as they make a phone call, and that staff member agreed but then went out for a smoke, resulting in an opportunistic thief stealing the $80 bras from the dryer. Here, the laundromat would carry liability, because although they don’t normally watch the clothes, they agreed to do it this once and did it so badly that the clothes were stolen. That’s negligence, despite the sign.
That said, posting a warning sign is generally encouraged, since a core principle of liability is that avoidance of harms is always going to be preferable than litigating after they’ve already happened. So if the sign causes patrons to stay near their clothes in the machine, then some amount of theft has been outright avoided. For this reason, courts seldom will punish a business for having an overzealous sign, unless the sign itself is materially false or the sign itself causes a hazard (eg a loose “Gusty Winds” highway warning sign that falls over in a light breeze, injuring a middle school student).
But to muddy the waters some more, another core principle of liability is that it should fall upon the person whose behavior if changed will prevent future harms. For stolen clothes, it’s quite clear that the thief should be liable for the value of the stolen bras. If a court instead holds the laundromat liable, then that creates a perverse incentive where rather than spending money on more/better washers, the laundromat must spend that money on cameras and private security. All for something which would be more cheaply solved by just watching the laundry, or perhaps installing hasps on the machines so patrons can bring their own locks.
On the flip side, denying liability means the patron has lost the value of their clothes. Perhaps they now have to spend more on “clothes insurance”, which only serves to benefit an insurance company rather than affording more bras. Adjudicating liability – in any legal system – is a thankless job and there are never perfect answers. Life is messy, and even the best civil tribunals struggle to make sense in all of the turbulent circumstances.
TL;DR: it depends
I think the laundromat case is more “don’t complain to management when you’re stuff gets stolen” than it is about preventing lawsuit.
Yeah, more of a chilling effect than a legal defense.
Don’t need to mount a legal defense if you convince people they can’t sue.
Lawsuits often go in front of juries.
Civil juries do whatever the hell they want.
Every step a company takes to make sure that a reasonable customer will avoid hurting themselves makes it more likely a jury will blame an unreasonable one who hurts themselves being unreasonable.
There is truth in this, but it needs a little bit more context. If a civil lawsuit – eg personal injury claim – goes to trial and either party requests a jury, then yes, the jury is mostly unrestrained in what sort of damages (or none at all) they find. But they don’t have absolute authority.
The caveat is that some jurisdictions have hard caps on the type of damages. Texas limits punitive damages (meant as punishment to ward off copycats from causing the same harms) to 2x the economic damages (loss of money or value; excludes emotional suffering) plus $750k. This was raised as an issue in the lawsuit brought in Texas against Alex Jones where the jury awarded approximately $50 million, although the judge did not determine that the Texas cap would apply, and so it didn’t. Jones could have appealed that decision, but I couldn’t find news articles suggesting he did.
There’s also a court’s inherent duty to deliver due process, which would allow a judge to cut down a jury award which is so outlandish that it is not supported by the evidence. This is similar to throwing out a criminal guilty verdict when no shred of evidence supported guilt. The opposite is rare, as a judge usually doesn’t increase a jury award; judges might add sanctions instead though.
The odd quirk is that the fickleness of juries – both criminal or civil – is often used to broker a settlement or plea deal. When Dominion Voting Systems sued Fox News, their suit requested $1.4 billion in compensation. But a jury could have found more damages than that. But it could also have been much lower. To avoid that gamble, the parties agreed to settle for $787.5 million. A settlement cannot be appealed and permanently terminates the lawsuit, which provides some peace to all parties. As for the merits of criminal plea deals, the pros and cons are better described here: https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/plea-bargaining-necessary-evil
I’m not talking about the amount.
I’m saying they’re much less predictable, so nonsense like having obvious signs saying “don’t be stupid” can affect their ruling regardless of how necessary it should be.
