• Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works
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    1 month ago

    TL;DR: I blame FPTP.


    Hm, I’d argue that this is a byproduct of the spoiler effect — I think it’s due to strategic voting. I think that it’s likely not due to people consciously voting against their own interests to benefit the rich (assuming that they indeed do this ­— ie that voting to benefit the rich is against their interests), but instead that the entities that support these sorts of beliefs, also tend to align with other beliefs that are more important to the voters, and “benefiting the rich”, while possibly perceived negatively, is a sacrifice that the voters are willing to make.

  • Sundial@lemm.ee
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    1 month ago

    Because the rich control an overwhelming amount of the media we consume. They are capable of shaping the narrative to their benefit.

    • FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1 month ago

      And, social media, these days nearly as important, if not more important.

      You (very understandably) hear a lot about state-sponsored (especially Russian) astroturfing, but very little about billionaire and company sponsored astroturing, which is very much a thing.

        • bobs_monkey@lemm.ee
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          1 month ago

          Probably the exception to the rule. I did as well, and constantly find myself at a loss for how it simply doesn’t occur to most people to stop and think about something for a split second as opposed to just impulsively doing whatever.

        • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 month ago

          It’s more that the system itself just leaves more and more children behind, as passing kids who aren’t actually making the grade has become the norm because parents are abusive and more apt to harass/harangue and schools are pressured with funding to make sure enough kids are graduating. Teachers themselves are left with few options and there’s still bright kids, they’re just waaaaay in the minority compared to the apparently teeming masses of absolute fuckwits.

          Also, I’m in my 40’s and when I think of the quality and intelligence of the people I graduated with? Well, maybe it hasn’t gotten that much worse, actually. Because I remember thinking everyone around me was a fucking idiot, tempering that thought as I got older, but now I’ve come back full fucking circle to these people are fucking idiots, raising other idiots.

          If kids are dumb today, millennials are on the hook for it, boomers didn’t do this one.

          • SendMePhotos@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            I always think of the George Carlin saying…

            "imagine how stupid the average person is… then realize half of all people are stupider than that. "

          • bassomitron@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            If kids are dumb today, millennials are on the hook for it, boomers didn’t do this one.

            The bulk of older teenagers/college kids are from Gen X, not so much from millennials.

          • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            Hey, not ALL millennials are on the hook for this one!

            For instance, I never found anyone to love me, and have kids with. So THERE! You can’t blame ME for idiots today!

            …but also yes. Kids in the 90s, that I went to school with were fucking idiots. Including me.

        • Dasus@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          “There’s no educating a smart boy.”

          — Terry Pratchett, Thief of Time (Discworld, #26)

          GNU Sir Terry

      • Yawweee877h444@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        This is the most important part.

        And also they push religion hard which is inherently a system of control for the uneducated and exploited.

        • Fandangalo@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          I was an atheist for the last 20 years and recently converted to Unitarian Universalist.

          I would say that in the west, this characterization tends to be true. But I do think there are honest faith communities acting with good intent. Unfortunately, there are few.

        • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 month ago

          Not just control, but Christianity specifically (as well as a few others) is really good because it promises a paradise after you die.

          You can get idiot plebes to spend their whole lives dreaming about it all being better after they die, because they were pious and accepted abuse during life.

          So, control through fear and hope.

          • Yawweee877h444@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            Exactly. The “love thy enemy” nonsense always got me too:

            Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you

            • Mathew 5:44

            Think about slavery in history. Christianity was forced upon slaves in US history. Think about current era people working horrible conditions, factories, sweatshops, whatever. What a CONVENIENT verse for the slave owners.

            Just be good, do what you’re told, don’t fight back, and love your enemy (exploiter/persecuter). If you do, promise of heaven like you said.

            But if you disobey (commit murder, dare I say of the person exploiting you), infinite and eternal torture and suffering in hell.

            Also don’t commit suicide, that’s a sin too so straight to hell if you do.

            Its just so fucking obvious.

            • 14th_cylon@lemm.ee
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              1 month ago

              What a CONVENIENT verse for the slave owners.

              reminds me of the joke that in another two thousand years, future archeologists will have no idea what is the difference between butt dial and booty call.

              and yet here we are with piece of shitty fiction written two thousand years ago, being passed in oral tradition and rewritten and retranslated multiple times, and some morons are trying to use it and force it upon others as a guideline how to live a life in 21st century…

              • Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                It’s just as good as any modern piety. Mormons, scientology, or any other weird sect or cult that’s emerged in the last 100 years isn’t more substantial to the modern person. I do hold a special place in my heart* for the love has won people.

                *this was a joke if you are affiliated with love has won take your crazy ass mother god and stay the fuck away from me

                • 14th_cylon@lemm.ee
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                  1 month ago

                  i had to google love has won, but this is funny:

                  Leader: Amy Carlson (“Mother God”)

                  i imagine mother god must have pissed lot of people, so yay for feminism 😂

  • lordnikon@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Because powerful people turned politics from a policy / representation in to politics as an identity. People will almost anything for their two minutes of hate.

    • solsangraal@lemmy.zip
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      1 month ago

      religion is a big part of it. how many millions of people only vote for the candidate who promises to criminalize abortion without knowing (or caring about) a single other goddamn thing about the person

      • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        I’m going to start a 3rd party. This party is going to be the “Fuck America” party. My party is going to run on the ideals that America is awful, and that trump is not a problem, he’s a symptom. America is the one who overwhelmingly approved of his ideas. I’m going to openly state FUCK GOD, THERE IS NO GOD. I’m going to take the stance of FUCK EVERYBODY. You guys want to argue about if boys and girls and trans should all be allowed to play high school sports together? Ok, here’s what we’re going to do, assholes. Boys and girls and trans can all play on the same teams together now. BUT!!! Every school district will also have one new team. This team won’t have students on it. You want to play basketball with boys and girls and trans, that’s fine, but we’re going to also make you play games against professional athletes who are trying to qualify for the national olympic teams. Why? Because then no matter which high school team you’re on, you lose. Everybody loses. That’s the message here. Equality for all, and fuck all of you because humans are the worst.

        Then I hear people argueing about abortions. Can a woman have an abortion, or is it against gods will? You know what? Fuck that! Forced abortions for men. All men will now have their balls smashed by the youtube show Hydrolic Press. We put all your balls into the hydrolic press, and let an industrial size piece of machinery squish them flat. No more babies.

        And as for women, we’re going to treat you equally too! No more opening the doors for you, or holding your chair. No more weddings, or divorce. No more considering your opinion on stuff. What? You thought when a bunch of guys get together, we all sit around and consider each others feelings? No. We wrestle each other and punch each other to decide where we’re going to eat that night. Doesn’t matter if your vegan, we’re eating at a place called gut busters meat emporium. Because Steve, with the biggest bicepts broke your nose, and you were too much of a pussy to get up and punch back.

        Dogs are now manditory in government. Every government position is now held by a dog, because dogs are better than people, and they’re the only good boys!

        …what? Why is everybody staring at me? Oh my god, was I talking outloud?

        • satanmat@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          At first I was going to ask if you were okay.

          But then I got to the dogs and realized that I’d like to sign up to your newsletter.

      • PriorityMotif@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Republicans didn’t start caring about abortion until they decided they could go after the Catholic vote. Even Evangelicals didn’t have a position on it until Republicans started to target them with misinformation about it. Those people think that they literally take screaming babies and putting them into a blender. There’s a video they made in the 80s called “the silent scream” that they used to scare kids with.

  • Crackhappy@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    In the US at least, the systematic demolishing of the education system has led to a vast reduction in overall education and critical thinking skills. This was done on purpose. That, combined with the unexpected boon of the Internet, has led to massive wealth shifting from the many to the few.

    You see the results of this change everywhere, especially on the Internet. Lack of basic spelling and grammar skills are just one symptom. All of that is to say that humans are primates and easily trained.

  • sunyata@mander.xyz
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    1 month ago

    Informed consent: People are not against exploitation. They just want to switch sides. Why would you vote for something that cripples you once you got rich?

    Uninformed consent: They honestly believe they are voting for their own interests.

    Indifferent consent: Usually single issue or ideology-driven voter.

    ¯⁠\⁠_⁠༼⁠ ⁠•́⁠ ͜⁠ʖ⁠ ⁠•̀⁠ ⁠༽⁠_⁠/⁠¯

  • BlackLaZoR@fedia.io
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    1 month ago

    Fundamental flaw of the democracy: It assumes that people know what’s the best for them

  • snooggums@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Generally people tend to focus on one thing and don’t pay any attention to the side effects. Morons want lower taxes for themselves and don’t pay attention to the fact that the wealthy get the most benefit out of conservative cuts or that they just defunded the benefits of having a government like enforced food safety regulations. Or they care about abortion because they buy lies about post birth abortions and ignore everything else. Or they just teally hate immigrants and want to be mad and don’t care that the party of hate works against their other self interests.

    Many people are stupid. Like really, really stupid.

  • Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz
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    1 month ago

    Probably unpopular answer, but it’s not some clear cut “this political party has better policies for everyone”. Republican policies usually are better for people living in rural areas, and Democratic policies are usually better for people in cities. I’m sure people will debate this, but this is the reason why people typically vote depending on where they live. At the very least, they believe that their party has better policies for them and their way of life.

    My personal (anecdotal evidence) is that I work for a small business in a rural area, and our main customers are other small business owners (usually self employed or under 5 employees). Over the last 3 presidents, the Obama years were rough for our company, we had explosive growth during the Trump years, and then we’ve had stagnant growth over the past 4 years. Our largest competitor went out of business this past year, which sent us a lot of new customers, but we’ve also had a lot of our customers go out of business as well, so we’ve been pretty stagnant. Being stagnant isn’t terrible, we don’t have shareholders or anything, but the cost of living has increased and company profit/wages haven’t which is a problem. That said I know we’re doing pretty well compared to a lot of people here.

    Another (once again anecdotal) example is that I have a friend who paints murals full time, for the past 30ish years. He told me that he does well with either Republicans or Democrats in office, but that his customers change. During republican presidents, his customer base is usually local businesses wanting to decorate their stores. During democratic presidents, his customer base is usually towns, state buildings, schools, etc.

    But anyways, I’d be very interested to hear from some people living in cities if there’s a visible uptick in income/etc when we have a democratic president, or in general what your personal observations are on how which president affects your local businesses/income/prices/etc.

    • Rookwood@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Obama took office during the Great Recession and rebuilt the economy. Biden took office during COVID and rebuilt the economy. (I know you’re going to try to argue with me on that, so I will just say that we recovered faster than any other developed nation before you do.) You’re kinda dense if you think that as soon as a president from another party enters office it would affect the economy so much as these events did…

      • tburkhol@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        For small businesses, a president taking power can immediately affect business. Small business owners make decisions based on their expectations of future, colored by their emotional state, so if they believe that a Republican President will be good for business, then they’re more likely to order new machinery, hire an extra person, etc. In an ecosystem of small businesses, that optimism feeds on itself.

        Happens in big business, too. S&P500 gained 3+% the day after election, which (if you don’t believe the daily stock market is just gambling) presumably means that ‘the market’ expects 3% more growth out of all those companies, just by Trump’s win being formalized. Stock price up makes it easier for companies to raise capital to expand, buy out competitors, etc

        Neither of those things is “the economy,” but they can feel like it, if you’re close enough.

        • 14th_cylon@lemm.ee
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          1 month ago

          S&P500 gained 3+% the day after election

          and considering that index gained 90% over the course of last 5 years and 700% over the last 30, that is a strong indication of… something. probably random variance 😆.

          which (if you don’t believe the daily stock market is just gambling) presumably means

          yeah, that is strong assumption 😂

      • obbeel@lemmy.eco.br
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        1 month ago

        I think it’s funny you call people dense when in fact they see the difference with their own eyes. Like a small business owner is making less money and people try to convince him that it has nothing to do with the elected government. I don’t think Fubar is the dense one here at all.

        • 14th_cylon@lemm.ee
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          1 month ago

          macro economy does not work like that. any complex system has inertia like an ocean-liner. you turn a wheel and it turns after 10 miles.

          seeing something is nice, but analysis of what you see is not necessarily withing the reach of “common sense”, which is why we have scientist who study the problem for all their life and professionals in their field.

          and that is why people trying to manipulate masses are trying to convince dense people not to trust the science and trust their common sense. because such gullible people can then be convinced about anything they decide to.

          also @Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz’s story reads like a really bad republican fan-fiction. “explosive growth” under trump and doom and despair under democratic president. come on, no administration has that big effect on your daily life. there are countries where it takes time to establish government after the elections and guess what, the day to day life still goes on even with no government present.

      • Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz
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        1 month ago

        I started working this job after Obama had already been in office one term, so I was mainly comparing the final 4 years. I’m really glad I was still in college for the first term when the economy was really rough.

        Covid did have an undeniable effect on the economy at the start of Biden’s term, and I don’t consider that his fault or anything. It does feel like we generally haven’t really recovered from it though, gas prices finally came back down but everything else is crazy expensive still. For example, I do electrical work, and a 250’ roll of 12/2 wire went from $35 in 2019 to $140 today.

      • CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Republican policies usually are better for people living in rural areas

        I’m surprised you read past this complete fallacy. I stopped there.

  • Hello_there@fedia.io
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    1 month ago

    The rich have billions to spend on focus groups so they know exactly which buttons to push so that people vote the way they want.

  • Rookwood@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Propaganda. Lack of education. There’s a reason they want to defund public schools. They’re not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. :)

  • Mak'@pawb.social
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    1 month ago

    Put simply: They’re being lied to. Consistently and perniciously.

    The lie is that their vote is going to benefit them somehow. Or that it’s going to hurt someone else exclusively. And, sometimes, it’s both—that it’ll hurt someone else, while bringing a benefit.

    In all three cases, the real truth—that they themselves will still suffer—is neatly hidden away.

  • _bcron_@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    There’s a substantial assumption that the wealthy know best how to manage wealth and the economy but it’s all predicated on the notion that those wealthy people are willing to act in the interest of everyone, when in fact they tend to act on their own personal interest (I mean, if someone has a net worth of over a billion dollars and they’re trying to accumulate even more money, that should give you a good idea how their policy will affect people who are making 40k/yr). They tend not to want to create jobs or increase wages more than they want to improve quality of earnings, because they stand to lose a lot and they somehow want more