• Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    1 month ago

    Trying to fix our original system of government and update it for modern day iis like trying to turn a race horse into a Formula 1 racecar…

    Democracy is government by consent of the governed. That means if you want to govern Wyoming and Montana, you have to get a majority of Wyoming and Montana residents to agree to your plan. And if every decision is going to be made by California, regardless of their local opposition, why the hell would they agree to be unilaterally ruled from afar? Why wouldn’t they maintain their own sovereignty and independence from you, and govern themselves?

    California certainly has no problem establishing laws for itself that the rest of the country broadly reject.

    • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      edit-2
      1 month ago

      That means if you want to govern Wyoming and Montana, you have to get a majority of Wyoming and Montana residents to agree to your plan.

      The vast majority of human history disagrees…

      Hell, modern events disagree, like 35% of the country voted for trump, most Americans disagree with their plans, it’s just the only other option was still pretty shitty

      • Stovetop@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        1 month ago

        like 35% of the country voted for trump, most Americans disagree with their plans

        The numbers can’t really be interpreted that way. The best one could say about those who didn’t vote at all is that they had no preference for the outcome.

      • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        1 month ago

        The vast majority of human history disagrees…

        The vast majority of human history involved dictatorial regimes imposing their will on the unwilling. Democracy is a fairly recent development.

        You certainly can establish a government without the consent of the governed, but you cannot reasonably describe such a government as “democratic”.

        • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          edit-2
          1 month ago

          The vast majority of human history involved dictatorial regimes imposing their will on the unwilling.

          And modern events are apparently still similar…

          like 35% of the country voted for trump, most Americans disagree with their plans, it’s just the only other option was still pretty shitty

          But this?

          but you cannot reasonably describe such a government as “democratic”.

          Oh shit…

          We’re close…

          Would you consider that more “republican”?

          • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            edit-2
            1 month ago

            Would you consider that more “republican”?

            Not at all. A government where the senate is eliminated, and California is free to impose itself against the will of Wyoming and Montana would be “populist” at best, and there are much more fitting terms. Not Democratic; Not a Republic. Eliminate the Senate, and you have Panem.

            Populism is two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner. Democracy is what keeps the sheep off the ballot.

            • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              1 month ago

              A government where the senate is eliminated, and California is free to impose itself against the will of Wyoming and Montana would be “populist” at best, and there are much more fitting terms

              Right, like “democracy”.

              Where the direction is chosen by what theajority of people want.

              Currently we have a system where a minority of the people tell the rest what to do…

              • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                1 month ago

                Right, like “democracy”.

                What is the form of government of the fictional nation of Panem?

                I would not describe Panem as a democracy, as the satellite districts have no effective voice in their own governance. Panem is missing anything resembling a Senate.

                Currently we have a system where a minority of the people tell the rest what to do…

                That is absolutely false. California is free to establish law for Californians, regardless of what Montana has to say about it. California doesn’t have to listen to Montana.

                • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 month ago

                  California doesn’t have to listen to Montana.

                  They have to listen to federal law and each person in Montana has way more federal representation thru the electoral college for president, Senate because every state gets two, and House because the number of seats are frozen.

                  Both chambers and the Oval they have more representation.

                  How is that not the minority telling the majority what to do?

                  Like, this has to be working even a little right?

                  There’s no shred of doubt in there?

                  Because buddy, I got doubts on how much I’m gonna be able to help you understand, I can’t make this any simpler. So hopefully you needed just that one comment.

                  • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    0
                    ·
                    1 month ago

                    The urban states greatly outnumber the rural states in the house, and California has fewer than the optimal persons per congressional district, meaning they are slightly overrepresented. The fact that 52 > 1 tells me that Montanans are not dictating policy to California.

                    I understand what you’re trying to say, but the fact is that even if Montana were able to build a coalition of the 26 smallest states, they would not be able to enact law without support from several of the larger states. Especially if California opposed the measure.