Why? Spend the money here.
That’s not how it works bub.
How what works?
The money stays in the US if that’s what you meant?
Yes. As much as I support Ukraine, it’s a waste of money at this point. Russia can go forever. We need to spend money here to brace for impact.
Russia+NKorea surely can’t go longer than US and Europe, look at the numbers in economy, population etc. Even if the US pulls out, Europe on its own would have more than enough resources to outspend Putin. It’s a matter of political will, that’s all. If Europe would be equally commited to Ukraine then Russia wouldn’t stand a chance. So whether it’s a waste of money or not now is a question of whether Europe is willing to properly support Ukraine. I guess you could make the point that it’s about time we finally decide this, but the means surely are there and at our disposal.
The key point is “if [they] would”
Europe and the US really don’t want to get involved more than they are. Sure, we can toss them some of our bullets for good measure, but they don’t want boots on the ground.
Russia really could just throw more people at the problem. They’ll draft the whole country before they give up. Putin is that crazy.
Russia actually can’t go on forever. There’s a reason they’re having to buy bottom of the barrel artillery shells from North Korea of all places. They’ve had gigantic reserves from the cold war to burn through, but they have been burning through it.
Putin isn’t gonna just stop.
of course not, but if things get bad enough for him, he may not have a choice
How could they really get bad for him though? He’s pretty old and has control of everything. He’s kinda just being a dick at this point.
I mean his military. If it gets ground down badly enough, him ordering them to keep fighting would be of little consequence, because armies fight with weapons and ammunition and manpower, not just on pure will.
Russia can still produce their own stuff and have been ramping up production pretty well. The economy still works well overall. Russians now buy more Chinese goods. Russia still exports enough to get by.
They won’t collapse any time soon. However their offensive capabilities will suffer.
Fucking idiot. The replacement weapons will be made here and paid to companies here
We don’t need to give money to conservative owned weapon manufacturers.
Then buy a weapons plant
Or, don’t spend money on weapons. I guess now that trump won, we don’t have to pretend to be nonviolent eh?
Lalala… Can’t hear you, Putin, Xi, Jong-un, Chamenei… lalala
Are you saying that if we don’t fight, those people will take control?
I’m saying that unchecked bad actors are going to act bad. The American people don’t seem to know this, but the US hasn’t been isolationist for more than a century. Also, 2001.
Were you dropped on your head as a baby or something?
Not as hard as you were.
What’s your opinion about lend lease on WW2?
Good lord you’re stupid.
You want war?
You think they are venmoing Ukraine?
The aid is for weapons delivery via 2 paths:
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Write off appropriation and backfill of mothballed stock we already needed to rotate out or destroy, due to shelf life
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Net new construction of weapons for immediate delivery to Ukraine. That construction happens in the US and us partner nations, and provides the US valuable use Intel as a cherry on top.
It’s valuable spending either way.
I do not think they use Venmo.
Bro they do. Just today I got a message from Zelensky asking me to send him $500 for a tank ticket to Donetsk. Being a patriot I am, I obviously did my part.
Haha. Sorry, I’m still trying to get my Nigerian prince.
There are also direct money transfers and guarantees for loans and other financial instruments.
As for mothballed weapons, it’s often cheaper to deliver them to Ukraine than to dispose of them.
That, along with Russia not congratulating Trump are the only things giving me some hope Trump might pivot with the right push. “We made an amazing deal, Ukraine will cheaply dispose of our old weapons and punish those filthy ungrateful Russians” would be very much on brand for Trump you insert a bunch of rambling in the middle.
-
Jesus fucking Christ, do you think we are shipping crates of Benjamins to Ukraine?
Are you really this fucking stupid? Clearly the majority of people in the United States are the dumbest motherfuckers alive, so I just need clarification.
That money is spent here. The money gets pumped into the US economy.
We get rid of ancient military equipment, Ukraine gets a boost, and the US economy gets billions of dollars pumped into it
Please educated one tell us how many schools do the weapon manufacturers that get these checks build?
Mmm no, I’m aware they don’t send money. I certainly never said that. And by spend, I mean on the people, not giving it to weapons manufacturers who definitely aren’t putting that money back into the economy.
What took them so fucking long?
We should give them enough gear to substantially weaken our own military.
The Dems need to learn to play dirty. Biden needs to de-fang his own office as much as possible in the next 2 months. And as official acts, he can do it with the Court’s blessing.
Stop taking the high road and burn the fucking White House down before Trump can take it back.
Gift the entirety of military resources not stationed in CONUS to NATO allies. If the plan was to try to strong-arm our allies for protection, literally take the ammo away.
Those NATO allies (Poland) don’t even intercept Russian missiles when they enter Polish air space. Belarus has a better track record of shooting down Russian drones.
Because they’ve been told by the US they’re not allowed to use their US supplied arms to do so. They’ve been asking for permission for at least a year. Refer also constraints placed on Ukraine
There is also the issue of
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Batteries protecting major cities.
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Munitions being limited.
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What can be shot down depends on the altitude. See point 1.
-
Polish deputy prime minister says otherwise:
By asking Poland to shoot down Russian missiles over Ukraine, President Volodymyr Zelensky is attempting to get Warsaw involved in the war, Polish Deputy Prime Minister Krzysztof Gawkowski said in an interview with Radio ZET on Nov. 4. https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-wants-to-drag-poland-into-war-with-russia-polish-deputy-pm-claims/
It’s a choice by the Polish.
Hmm thanks for that, I read some very different messaging over the last year. I’ll try to dig it out
Both sides of this monopolized 2-party system are owned by the same corporate interests and mega-rich.
When will average Joe wake up and realize this? There is no fixing this diseased system from the inside and hoping and wishing to elect a “good guy” for once, when they’re all corrupt puppets.
Americans need to cowboy the fuck up and take their country back from a tyrannical death-cult, fascist government. Or sit back and lose everything.
“First they came …”
And as official acts, he can do it with the Court’s blessing.
You forget, the courts only would use that logic to help republicans and hinder democrats.
Precedent has no meaning to these fucks.
Well, he’s also like 4 heartbeats from death. Might as well go out with a bang.
why didn’t we do this before
Because the military-industrial complex needed to slow-drip the weapons to make the war last as long as possible.
It’s still the same as before and nothing on the level USA does for Israel where they happily intercept rockets for that rich, well armed count with an installed iron dome air defense.
Still no US air raids on Donbas and Crimea and such.
Maybe democrats expected a negative effect on the ballots because of it. Macron did something similar while running against le pen on last year? and released the package as soon as the ellection was settled
Prepare a last minute assassination plan on Putin. Who else can do it if not the self described “greatest nation in the world”.
Mask off
What mask? Everybody wants Putin dead.
.ml
lol
.ee
Not surprised words are too hard :(
Remember just four years ago when you pretended Trump was a horrible monster for assassinating Sulemani
Can’t say I do
The true mask off over the past few months, honestly. They’re not even trying to not look like Tankies anymore.
Interesting because the term ‘tankie’ originated because a faction of the english communists supported putting down a fascist coup in eastern europe.
The same people who support every fascist coup the CIA involves themselves with still use the term the exact same way to this very day
Is Ruscist or Vatnik less offensive for you?
I guess vatnik is as close as a deranged western chauvinist is likely to get to accuracy. Ruscist is still just childish use of words for their emotional impact rather than their actual meaning.
haha le drumpf
Alright, fascism apologist. Ruscist it is then.
You when you heard that someone tried to assassinate Adolf Hitler.
Okay then assassinate trump
Money where your mouth is
Show me where I claim to be a hitman.
How pedantic.
Adolf swallowed his barrel rather than deal with our people.
After allied forces bombed the country to shits, yeah. Same should be done to Russia. Denazification.
Nazi is a word for people who oppose my country’s empire
Now please stop bothering me while I vote for someone committing genocide to clear land for settlers
Now please stop bothering me
You’re the one replying to my comments you weirdo.
I’m mocking you by speaking from your perspective.
Take a few breaths and let your blood pressure return to normal and maybe so too will your reading comprehension.
Until today, I’ve been thoroughly in favor of supporting Ukraine. Since Ukraine isn’t going to get any support from the next administration, rushing out a final aid package (if the current administration can even manage that) only seems like it will briefly delay Russia’s slow victory.
I’d like to be shown that I’m wrong. Please comment if you have an outlook that’s more positive than mine.
Maybe the EU gets its shit together… this could be for the good on the long run
With Trump supporting Russia will be a fast victory.
Next aid will be for Russia.
Trump already helped Putin with COVID tests, why not give full support, no one can stop him nowWell, we don’t actually know that the next administration won’t support them any. We assume they won’t because of Trump’s attitude to Ukraine, but the republicans have been somewhat divided over the issue, and Trump just does whatever he randomly feels like, and sending more military aid does benefit the MIC that can pay politicians, so it possible, if unlikely, that they’d get some support from them. There’s also the possibility of support from Europe or elsewhere in the world. Finally, while a Ukrainian loss without foreign support seems quite likely, the pace of Russia’s advances and resource expendature are such that a win for them is no longer likely to be “annex Ukraine or make it a puppet rump state”, but more “take a strip of land close to the current occupation line”, in which case a stronger Ukraine has a better negotiating position and so may be able to give up less.
There is a tremendous amount of mostly empty Ukrainian land left. If Russia wants it all, their casualties will end in the millions, even without additional US aid. We’re not the only suppliers, after all.
I have one, hear me out: it looks like the current german gov will decide to give up and have early elections. Current polls suggest that Merz will become chancellor. On multiple occasions he criticized Scholz for his cautious approach and voiced his support for Taurus deliveries. Not sure if he will go through but I think he specifically mentioned Taurus so often and prominently that it won’t be easy to back pedal now. So it’s likely that Taurus (and with it the Kerch bridge?) is back on the menu.
(Imho he’s quite a shitty politician otherwise, but maybe he can get at least this right)
With the current Zeitgeist, I’m afraid of a landslide win for the AfD
But maybe I just lost hope…
@naeap @smokeysnilas I very strong doubt it. 18% at Sonntagsfrage
That’s still a shitload of votes, but better than a majority
Thanks for giving me something kinda positive!
Schwarz-Blau dem Fotzenfritz, klingt doch super
@smokeysnilas @magnetosphere hold your horses. Opposition talk is cheap. He still had no ‘Cobra’ - Clearance. (BuSiRat) #freethetaurus #destroyrussiaonceandforall
@smokeysnilas challenge his word. I doubt it. Sadly.
