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Because it exploits how dumb the internet toy such as a karma system really is.
I like the Fediverse’s handling of it. Look, I can post however much I want. Unlike Reddit, where I got to storm to AskReddit because it doesn’t care about how much karma you’ve got, farm karma, wait for a period and then finally be able to post where I want to.
People have sadly tied their existence to this system. I mean, the higher a karma count is for someone, I’ve noted how much of a snobbish bastard people love to come off as. Like as if it makes them superior, regardless of the shit takes and awful arguments they project.
Karma systems invalidate thought and discussion. Do you really mean to say what you’ve said because you mean it? Or did you say it because you know it’ll garner the most points? Quite frankly, I’d rather be saying what I want to say because some of the time, I do mean it. On Reddit, I always have had to fake myself and say stupid shit just so I can have enough points to finally post elsewhere. So many people on Reddit will say anything and do anything to make themselves feel better about themselves by phoning in thoughts, opinions and expressions. But I doubt they actually believe into half of the shit they say or do.
And when you get downvoted? Welp, be prepared to karma farm again because some subreddits will not allow you to post or just throw you into the spam filter bin because you get prompted by a 9 minute timer before you can post again. It’s just an atrocious system all around that has bastardized the way people communicate with eachother. So, Fuck Reddit’s Karma system, it doesn’t belong here.
That’s mostly true I think, but it is a really useful resource for mods and I completely understand why they use min karma limits. ( On Reddit I just have a min 5 karma requirement (posts only) and a larger range that just triggers modmail - filters out 90% of bot posts and I can manually address the false positives. I would hate to have to manage a larger community)
So that you can ask stupid questions and not have repercussions hunt you til the days your account is deleted
Why should it?
We can see all the negatives every day with reddit.
What positive does a Karma system bring to the platform and discussions?
Because when you see somebody with -1000 karma, it’s a pretty good indicator that you shouldn’t waste your time engaging with them.
You can take a look at their post history and that will typically tell a lot more than a number next to their name
Usually you can get the same info just from looking at their last couple comments. Trolls don’t usually very much.
There were plenty of users with high karma that weren’t worth engaging with too.
It only helped with lbvious jerks that you could probably tell were terrible just by reading their post.
Eh, it could help discern trolls (like when a user has -6900 Karma, you know they have dogshit takes) and could inspire actually insightful commentary (since it’s usually the more ingenious comments that get upvotes). But on the other hand, there are definitely some big cons to having a Karma-like system.
Honestly, a person’s actual post history should be more relevant and indicative to whether they’renworth engaging with tham a single number.
Furthermore, aside from deliberate trolls, most comments or posts should be assessed on their own merits, irrespective of the poster’s history.
People are complex, and it’s possible that raving political idiots might have thoughtful opinions on their favourite video game or the aspects that make a perfect butt.
Many years ago on reddit, you could get given gold. It gave you paid benefits. My comments earned me literally years worth of gold, and my karma was similarly increasing.
Then I came out as trans. Suddenly the gold stopped and my karma stagnated
That kind of bias is built in to the karma system. It doesn’t just punish shit takes, it also sidelines visible minorities
By choice. The main developers don’t like that kind of gamification, bragging, karma farming and the negative aspects that come with such things.
But it has other negative side effects if we scaled Lemmy up in scale.
For example, it doesn’t matter if you downvote me if I called you a big stinky poo poo face. Because without a larger pool of karma to detract from, it doesn’t matter HOW unpopular any singular post is.
…you big stinky poo poo face!
I think that’s how it should be. We all say stupid things sometimes (or smart but unpopular things). Plus, if someone had a bad few months, it shouldn’t haunt them forever.
Keep Lemmy karma-free!
…you big stinky poo poo face!
Well then damn it all; what more evidence do you need?!
The poo-pooing alone is a court-martial offence!
Uı mın Reddit hæz ė mækſ impækt ðæt enı ƿu̇n poſt oṙ kȯment kæn hæv. Ȯbſtenſiblı æz æn æntı-brigeıdıŋ mejṙ b Uı’m luık 90% cṙ it ƿėz bikȯz v ð “Pride and Accomplishment” poſt frėm EA.
spoiler
I mean Reddit has a mac impact that any one post or comment can have. Obstensibly as an anti-brigading measure, but I’m like 90% sure it was because of the “Pride and Accomplishment” post from EA.
Personally, if I was unhappy with your posts, I’d just shrug and then block you. Case closed :)
Because without a larger pool of karma to detract from, it doesn’t matter HOW unpopular any singular post is.
Voting is there to sort posts and comments, not to rate a user. Having a larger pool of karma serves no purpose.
The purpose is to rate the users. If you regularly contribute good quality content, you’ll have a high score.
If you regularly engage in trolling, and harassment, and other shady activity, you get a negative score.
Individual communities can set up guidelines, that if you have a new account under 6 months, and you have a negative overall karma, you’re banned from that community until a human can look through your post history to see if you should be unbanned.
The purpose is to rate the users.
Individual communities can set up guidelines, that if you have a new account under 6 months, and you have a negative overall karma,
you’re banned from that community until a human can look through your post history to see if you should be unbanned.you’ll have to repost previously highly upvoted content to pump up your karma numbers, until you have a positive overall karma.FTFY, I’d really prefer to leave that mistake of karma at Reddit instead of polluting Lemmy with it.
Lemmy karma-less method also drastically reduces the value of bot accounts to farm karma (for nefarious or advertising use before being banned).
Nah. Reddit showed that karma systems are useless as they are too easy to manipulate. Buy/hijack a bunch of old accounts and suddenly, your scams or crazy propaganda are given artificial authenticity. Or, just use repost bots to farm karma. Really, it was a nice idea but failed when subject to bad actors.
Really, it was a nice idea but failed when subject to bad actors.
God, if that isn’t just the story of our fuckin’ lives…
I do miss the special updoots like gold and stuff. It was fun
Sorry you got jumped on as a new user a bit.
The karma system on reddit encourages posting and reposting stuff that everyone has seen before to get fake internet points, and maybe what you win is a “more powerful account” for the algorithm instead of everyone getting a more or less equal voice.
You can still get people to follow you and build a tribe if you want without that, and you are also free to start any community you like, so a few mods don’t end up controlling all the online real estate and steer the conversation unfairly.
Plus its simpler. Sometimes simple is good.
It used to in the past. It was removed in the 0.19.0 release. This is the pull request that took it out (I think).
This thread has some of the reasoning for it, but at a high level the Lemmy devs made a call that the benefits a karma system provide didn’t outweigh the problems a karma system can cause.
It is by choice. Prominent developers made that choice because they thought it might eliminate a lot of the popularity incentives reddit creates.
Now I don’t agree with that choice, but many others here do. I don’t think this solves the incentive issues but just makes instances a bit more of a wild western and requires moderators to do more work figuring out what to make of an account.
Maybe it would be great if this is still an option you could turn on / off per instance or something.
I don’t care why, I just hope they never implement one.
As others said it was a conscious decision of the developers, as it’s gamification of the system and they aren’t big fans of that.
I agree with this decision.
The Fluff Principle* makes easy-to-judge content get higher scores, and we do see it Lemmy. It isn’t a big deal because fluff ends on its own specific comms, but once you gamify the aggregation of score points, the picture changes - now you’re encouraging people to share content that they believe to score high over content that they believe to be contributive.
Additionally a publicly visible karma enables a bunch of poorly thought mod practices, like karma gating (“you need +500 karma to post here lol”) or automatically banning people with low karma (even if it might come from a single post/comment).
*“Hence what I call the Fluff Principle: on a user-voted news site, the links that are easiest to judge will take over unless you take specific measures to prevent it.” (Source)
It… does, though? I always go to my profile and check how my comments are doing before I sign off. Numbers go bigger make dopamine go brrrr.
But it doesn’t have an account total karma tracker (it did, but was removed).
I like it this way, you get approval on your comments/posts, but don’t have a public ‘worth’ value to increase - that can cause problems.
There’s no real value to any of it.
Attach free beer to point levels and watch this thing explode.
You know, we kind of do have it and some apps will even let you know. But it’s got a lot of flaws as everyone else has pointed out.
You know what I kind of want is a way to see karma by instance. What you’re going to learn is that certain instances have rather extreme views (including the default lemmy.ml) and seeing how unpopular you are there while being popular elsewhere might actually make that feature more interesting.
Like, sure he’s a -100 on LemmyGrad but he’s a 200 on Sh.itjust.works; take that as you will. Lol
Because it’s not fun
It is fun when I see a big number and it fuels my ego, though!
If you’re craving some gamefication we have posts/comments numbers
The more you contribute, the bigger the number gets!
Because karma ruins actual discussion.
