• OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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    5 days ago

    I wouldn’t be a Kamala supporter, so it doesn’t benefit Trump. Glad we got that resolved.

    It’s mathematically impossible for a third party candidate to win

    Objectively false. If a third party candidate got the most votes, then they would win, so it is mathematically possible. I understand the video perfectly.

    congrats, you have funded a party that can with absolute certainty accomplish nothing, woop de do.

    Even if they accomplished nothing, I’d still rather my money go to them than to the government or either major party, all of which I oppose.

    Voting always does that

    Sorry, you asked “why vote at all if you’re not going to vote strategically,” so that’s the question I was answering.

    At the cost of benefitting the party you like the least

    I’m not benefitting the party I like the least, I am only benefiting the party I vote for.

          • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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            4 days ago

            Wrong. I wouldn’t support Kamala regardless of her being the lesser evil. I would abstain, because neither of them are at all acceptable to me.

            • Communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz
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              4 days ago

              that accomplishes nothing but improving the odds of your last choice. It’s not like your vote is an endorsement… everyone knows about strategic voting, so, the fact that you’re voting strategically makes it obvious that you don’t support that person just because you voted for them.

              • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                3 days ago

                I doesn’t improve either candidate’s chances at all. And voting is an endorsement, no matter how much you pretend otherwise.

                • Communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz
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                  3 days ago

                  I doesn’t improve either candidate’s chances at all.

                  Voting for a candidate doesn’t improve a candidates odds?

                  Not voting for the candidate when you could’ve doesn’t improve the opponents odds?

                  Actually mathematically false. You’re saying 1+1=4 because if it doesn’t your feefees will be hurt.

                  And voting is an endorsement, no matter how much you pretend otherwise.

                  It’s not pretend, it literally isn’t in any way shape or form, because people are aware of strategic voting, and it is done anonymously… You can vote for a candidate because you denounce another candidate, and not like the other candidate at all.

                  Voting is in no way shape or form an endorsement of anything, it’s just a statement of your preference… and your preference is kamala over trump, so you should make that preference clear. You absolutely do not have to endorse a candidate to vote for them, you just have to hate another candidate and vote strategically.

                  Save this nonsense for when FPTP is abolished, then it’ll actually be of value, for now, you might as well not even show up to the polling place, you’re just wasting everyones time. Has a protest vote ever accomplished anything? has a third party ever accomplished anything? You know the answers to these, you’re just being stubborn because your ego is wrapped up in this.

                  You’re obviously a teenager whose brain has not fully developed. If you’re an adult, god help us.

                  • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                    3 days ago

                    Not voting for the candidate when you could’ve doesn’t improve the opponents odds?

                    No, it doesn’t. Not voting for a candidate neither increases nor decreases their chances. Voting for a candidate is what increases their chances, voting for their opponent is what decreases them.

                    Actually mathematically false. You’re saying 1+1=4 because if it doesn’t your feefees will be hurt.

                    Nope, it’s actually mathematically false, you’re the one twisting numbers around. Remove me from existence and Trump and Kamala’s chances will be the same, so I’m not increasing or decreasing either’s chances.

                    Voting is in no way shape or form an endorsement of anything

                    Definitionally, endorsing a candidate is when you say, “This candidate is the best choice and I intend to vote for them.” It doesn’t mean, “I agree with everything this candidate says or does.” If you vote for a candidate, tell people you vote for them, and encourage others to vote for them, that is definitionally an endorsement.

                    You’re obviously a teenager whose brain has not fully developed. If you’re an adult, god help us.

                    I’m in my 30’s. You’re just wrong about everything you said.

            • ultranaut@lemmy.world
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              4 days ago

              Your logic doesn’t make sense. We only get one or the other of them, that is the inevitable outcome of the election. It is going to be either Trump or Harris. You just said Trump is worse than Harris in a previous comment. If you legitimately believe Trump is worse then it is basic harm reduction to vote for the person who is capable of defeating him. Choosing to not vote or to vote third party reduces the chances of Harris winning and increases the chances of Trump winning. Either you actually do want Trump to win and are trolling or your ethics and values are incoherent.

              • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                4 days ago

                Trump is worse than Harris, and one of them will win the election, that is true. But I don’t agree that that means I should vote for Harris. I believe it is necessary to hold politicians to a minimum standard, and that refusing to vote for a candidate that doesn’t meet that standard is a means of enforcing it. Even if a third party can’t win this election, voting for them still serves to establish a credible threat of defection. This is one of many reasons why the ideology of lesser-evilism is incorrect.

                Choosing to not vote or to vote third party reduces the chances of Harris winning and increases the chances of Trump winning

                It does neither of those things, actually. It neither increases nor decreases the chances of either candidate winning.

                • ultranaut@lemmy.world
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                  4 days ago

                  The things you believe do not make sense or map to actual reality.

                  What do you think voting is doing if its not increasing or decreasing the likelihood of a candidate winning?

                  If there’s only two possible outcomes between three choices, and one of those choices is clearly the worst outcome and another one of them is clearly not a possible outcome, which choice would you make and why?

                  • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                    4 days ago

                    If a large enough bloc of voters won’t vote unless you support a specific policy, then you have more of an incentive to support that policy. Do you dispute this?

      • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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        4 days ago

        No, it doesn’t. It benefits neither.

        2+2=5 is what you have to do to explain how voting for a candidate somehow benefits a completely different candidate.

    • rockstarmode@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      In think you hit the nail on the head for me with this one:

      I wouldn’t be a Kamala supporter, so it doesn’t benefit Trump

      I’m in the same boat. Many of Kamala’s policies aren’t things I want or agree with. Many of Trump’s policies aren’t things I want or agree with. I disagree with BOTH of the major candidates so much that it doesn’t make sense for me to vote for either of them.

      They aren’t losing my vote, their platforms are such that neither ever had my vote to begin with. It’s not like my vote would have been for Kamala, but since I have a small issue with one of her planks, then I’m throwing a fit and I’m going to vote 3rd party.

      Neither major candidate deserves my vote, In fact I think the difference between Kamala and Trump winning is relatively small for the US. Either of them winning will be a nightmare for the US. They’re both terrible people, they may lie about different things, and the media favors one or the other more for their own benefit. They’re both authoritarian warmongers, who say whatever it takes on the campaign trail to get elected, then stomp all over regular people when they get into power. The major parties are not the same, but they’re both fucked.

      I also happen to live in a state where one party will get double the other party’s votes, and it’s been that way for nearly my entire life. MY VOTE FOR PRESIDENT LITERALLY DOESN’T MATTER HERE, EVEN IF I LIKED ONE OF THE MAJOR CANDIDATES.

      So I vote for a 3rd party candidate with no chance to win, whose platform I happen to agree with more than any other candidate, and I can live with myself and the eventual outcome.

      I definitely agree on getting out of first past the post though.