I voted party for socialism and liberation and you can too!
They’re running Claudia de la Cruz on a platform of Palestinian statehood and an end to arms shipments to israel.
If you never asked Harris to dazzle you, only to show even the smallest sign of intent to end the genocide she’s party to, why not vote for a candidate that has consistently been anti genocide this whole time!
Voting for Claudia de la Cruz at this point will not actually help, and deep down I’m sure you know that. Fundamental changes are needed to break through the 2-party system. And I’m sure you know that too. You’re basically polishing a shiny chrome gearshift knob you bought in case someday your grandchildren can afford a fancy car. Congratulations!
Or you just don’t live in a swing state and it doesn’t matter who you vote for, but I would still call voting for psl in this election morally irresponsible.
My psl vote doesn’t help trump win. I know that because it doesn’t get counted for trump.
I would not have voted for the democrats.
I havent voted for a democrat at the national level after Obama 08.
If there was any indication that Harris would have a different policy on Gaza than the Biden administration she’d have a good opportunity to break my streak.
It would probably be a good idea not to make an argument about morality that tries to condemn voting for a candidate opposed to genocide.
I’ve seen a lot of strategic arguments for Harris, but never a moral one.
It’s not about the player, it’s about the game. Two party first past the post systems are subject to the weakness of the “Spoiler effect” which is a legitimate problem with the design of the system.
As a Canadian this is a well known and well worn principle of our election landscape as “strategic voting” has been byword in elections for about 20 years. The Electoral College creates additional complexity that is more or less something that can be pointed to as the source of the problem but the issues are much deeper.
I know it’s really hard to actually come up against these principles and lose one’s innocent belief that the system rewards your type of participation… But you need to look beyond the gloss and realize how cracked the system is otherwise you will be played.
If the democrats lose because of the spoiler effect you describe, do you think they’ll try to take on the positions of the party that they “lost” the most votes to?
Spoiler effect is fake and made up, but for the purposes of your belief that it’s real, will one or the other major party try to court third party voters in the case that they believe themselves to have been harmed by it?
If the democrats lose because of the spoiler effect you describe, do you think they’ll try to take on the positions of the party that they “lost” the most votes to?
Yes, that’s literally what they’ve been doing for the last 50 years. Why do you think that the overton window has shifted so far right?
Spoiler effect is fake and made up, but for the purposes of your belief that it’s real, will one or the other major party try to court third party voters in the case that they believe themselves to have been harmed by it?
Yep, my previous response to you was right, you don’t pay attention to politics in the slightest. Assuming you’re a good faith participant, anyway.
Not really. The Democrats are aware of the effect but if they lose they basically just go back to the drawing board. They actively benefit from a lack of knowledge of the FPTP drawbacks so they don’t bring it up unless things get dire enough to tip their hand. They have been squirrelly about letting that understanding flourish so they have been putting forward a sacrificial lamb in the form of the Electoral College to keep people’s eye off the prize.
But unless you get a once in a lifetime knife edge minority government third parties tend to be unstable voting blocks who don’t have the ability to influence schedules which is where the real power lies. They might vote their hearts but it doesn’t matter if they can’t even propose time on the floor for their issues.
From the standpoint of the beneficiaries of the spoiler effect you are a sacrifice that is useful because if we are having this conversation then we aren’t talking about more threatening things lile election reform.
PSL is a spoiler campaign that isn’t even on the ballot in most states because they are inexperienced, do-nothing spoilers. Any vote for them is an assist for Trump.
To anyone reading along- ask yourself this:
These people that ask you to vote for the PSL. Where were they over the past four years? Have you even heard of their spoiler candidate before a few weeks ago? What have they done to make their policy known? And like the “socialists” like to say:
“What has she done to earn your vote?”
These people simping for the PSL don’t have your interest in mind any more that the members that are trying to get themselves elected.
Do NOT take them seriously until they show that have earned your attention!
Psl is on the ballot in 20 states, you’re right, and it would be 22 if they weren’t pushed off or invalidated in Georgia and Pennsylvania.
But they’re allowed write in candidates in 23 states and that gives them a possible 464 electoral votes. More than enough to win!
Write in ballots are counted. I know because I’ve worked elections and seen the process where they’re added to a tally.
I will take an inexperienced candidate over one in favor of genocide any day.
De la Cruz has made a commitment to end the genocide which is a fundamental part of the psl platform in 2024 and has a plan to use executive power to end the genocide. Even if I wasn’t a booster of psl already that would go a long way towards earning my vote.
To anyone reading this: feel free to congratulate me, because I just earned your attention!
De La Cruz and the PSL Actually does things outside of run for office. Organize various revolutionary groups, protest genocide, help marginalized communities.
Just because you ignore all political action besides voting every 4(or maybe 2) years doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
They do nothing to earn their support of votes. Nothing. Little to no campaigning. Seemingly no viable policy that could work in the real world- and seemingly no willingness to even try and enter the ring and work with anyone.
Nothing but empty promises and demands that will be laughed out of offices.
But it sure looks good to people ignorant enough to not bother to understand how politics work in the real world.
Change doesn’t happen just because you want it badly enough.
They do nothing to earn their support of votes. Nothing.
I’ve been seeing it lots lately that party’s don’t have to earn votes but I guess it’s just Dems who are owed them?
Nothing but empty promises and demands that will be laughed out of offices.
Oh ya dude the Dems and Republicans loveee fulfilling campaign promises! That’s why we have healthcare, loan forgiveness, legal weed, the abolition of the death penalty…
But it sure looks good to people ignorant enough to not bother to understand how politics work in the real world.
Ah that’s what I was forgetting. In the real world only bad things can happen. It is foolish to believe anything good could occur. Ignorant me.
Change doesn’t happen just because you want it badly enough.
Than why vote for Kamala or Trump? We’re told Harris wants to end the genocide despite all evidence and that we must vote for her… And yet it seems to be simply based on the power of belief that she will do good things. Kamala isn’t going to stop the slaughter just because you want her to. Ditto for trump. His followers beliefs are all that keep him afloat despite him doing Jack shit.
That’s a lot of words to say you don’t understand how electoral politics works. Or pay attention to politics at all based on the second block there. If you think that tired and intellectually lazy BoTh SiDeS bullshit has any merit, your opinion is basically worthless.
And based on your simping for an unknown 3rd party, I’m pretty sure I know how valuable your opinion is. But hey, go with the option the fascists want you to take, that will show the democrats!!1!
It’s far too late in the game to engage with any of you in any meaning way on this. You gave up the rights to my patience and respect when you all insulted everyone that tried to explain this to you- over and over again.
I’m here to call out the bad faith bullshit, and point and laugh at the failed attempts to interfere with an election.
I voted party for socialism and liberation and you can too!
They’re running Claudia de la Cruz on a platform of Palestinian statehood and an end to arms shipments to israel.
If you never asked Harris to dazzle you, only to show even the smallest sign of intent to end the genocide she’s party to, why not vote for a candidate that has consistently been anti genocide this whole time!
Voting for Claudia de la Cruz at this point will not actually help, and deep down I’m sure you know that. Fundamental changes are needed to break through the 2-party system. And I’m sure you know that too. You’re basically polishing a shiny chrome gearshift knob you bought in case someday your grandchildren can afford a fancy car. Congratulations!
Oh they absolutely know.
Psl is literally a revolutionary party.
It doesn’t get more fundamental than that.
Psl is a wasted vote that will help Trump win.
Or you just don’t live in a swing state and it doesn’t matter who you vote for, but I would still call voting for psl in this election morally irresponsible.
My psl vote doesn’t help trump win. I know that because it doesn’t get counted for trump.
I would not have voted for the democrats.
I havent voted for a democrat at the national level after Obama 08.
If there was any indication that Harris would have a different policy on Gaza than the Biden administration she’d have a good opportunity to break my streak.
It would probably be a good idea not to make an argument about morality that tries to condemn voting for a candidate opposed to genocide.
I’ve seen a lot of strategic arguments for Harris, but never a moral one.
Bloodfart knows this and it’s been explained to them dozens of times. They’re not here to be convinced otherwise.
It’s not about the player, it’s about the game. Two party first past the post systems are subject to the weakness of the “Spoiler effect” which is a legitimate problem with the design of the system.
As a Canadian this is a well known and well worn principle of our election landscape as “strategic voting” has been byword in elections for about 20 years. The Electoral College creates additional complexity that is more or less something that can be pointed to as the source of the problem but the issues are much deeper.
I know it’s really hard to actually come up against these principles and lose one’s innocent belief that the system rewards your type of participation… But you need to look beyond the gloss and realize how cracked the system is otherwise you will be played.
If the democrats lose because of the spoiler effect you describe, do you think they’ll try to take on the positions of the party that they “lost” the most votes to?
Spoiler effect is fake and made up, but for the purposes of your belief that it’s real, will one or the other major party try to court third party voters in the case that they believe themselves to have been harmed by it?
Yes, that’s literally what they’ve been doing for the last 50 years. Why do you think that the overton window has shifted so far right?
Yep, my previous response to you was right, you don’t pay attention to politics in the slightest. Assuming you’re a good faith participant, anyway.
So if the democrats will always choose to shift to the right as opposed to the left then how is the left spoiling anything?
What you’re suggesting is that the American left should follow the democrats to the right. How’s that worked out in the past?
Not really. The Democrats are aware of the effect but if they lose they basically just go back to the drawing board. They actively benefit from a lack of knowledge of the FPTP drawbacks so they don’t bring it up unless things get dire enough to tip their hand. They have been squirrelly about letting that understanding flourish so they have been putting forward a sacrificial lamb in the form of the Electoral College to keep people’s eye off the prize.
But unless you get a once in a lifetime knife edge minority government third parties tend to be unstable voting blocks who don’t have the ability to influence schedules which is where the real power lies. They might vote their hearts but it doesn’t matter if they can’t even propose time on the floor for their issues.
From the standpoint of the beneficiaries of the spoiler effect you are a sacrifice that is useful because if we are having this conversation then we aren’t talking about more threatening things lile election reform.
If the democrats need my vote then they can adopt the platforms and policies I vote for.
Simple as.
I swear to god it really seems like you’re doing the most insane mental gymnastics to justify voting for a genocide.
PSL is a spoiler campaign that isn’t even on the ballot in most states because they are inexperienced, do-nothing spoilers. Any vote for them is an assist for Trump.
To anyone reading along- ask yourself this:
These people that ask you to vote for the PSL. Where were they over the past four years? Have you even heard of their spoiler candidate before a few weeks ago? What have they done to make their policy known? And like the “socialists” like to say:
“What has she done to earn your vote?”
These people simping for the PSL don’t have your interest in mind any more that the members that are trying to get themselves elected.
Do NOT take them seriously until they show that have earned your attention!
Oh hey! Nice to see you!
Psl is on the ballot in 20 states, you’re right, and it would be 22 if they weren’t pushed off or invalidated in Georgia and Pennsylvania.
But they’re allowed write in candidates in 23 states and that gives them a possible 464 electoral votes. More than enough to win!
Write in ballots are counted. I know because I’ve worked elections and seen the process where they’re added to a tally.
I will take an inexperienced candidate over one in favor of genocide any day.
De la Cruz has made a commitment to end the genocide which is a fundamental part of the psl platform in 2024 and has a plan to use executive power to end the genocide. Even if I wasn’t a booster of psl already that would go a long way towards earning my vote.
To anyone reading this: feel free to congratulate me, because I just earned your attention!
De La Cruz and the PSL Actually does things outside of run for office. Organize various revolutionary groups, protest genocide, help marginalized communities.
Just because you ignore all political action besides voting every 4(or maybe 2) years doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
They do nothing to earn their support of votes. Nothing. Little to no campaigning. Seemingly no viable policy that could work in the real world- and seemingly no willingness to even try and enter the ring and work with anyone.
Nothing but empty promises and demands that will be laughed out of offices.
But it sure looks good to people ignorant enough to not bother to understand how politics work in the real world.
Change doesn’t happen just because you want it badly enough.
I’ve been seeing it lots lately that party’s don’t have to earn votes but I guess it’s just Dems who are owed them?
Oh ya dude the Dems and Republicans loveee fulfilling campaign promises! That’s why we have healthcare, loan forgiveness, legal weed, the abolition of the death penalty…
Ah that’s what I was forgetting. In the real world only bad things can happen. It is foolish to believe anything good could occur. Ignorant me.
Than why vote for Kamala or Trump? We’re told Harris wants to end the genocide despite all evidence and that we must vote for her… And yet it seems to be simply based on the power of belief that she will do good things. Kamala isn’t going to stop the slaughter just because you want her to. Ditto for trump. His followers beliefs are all that keep him afloat despite him doing Jack shit.
That’s a lot of words to say you don’t understand how electoral politics works. Or pay attention to politics at all based on the second block there. If you think that tired and intellectually lazy BoTh SiDeS bullshit has any merit, your opinion is basically worthless.
And based on your simping for an unknown 3rd party, I’m pretty sure I know how valuable your opinion is. But hey, go with the option the fascists want you to take, that will show the democrats!!1!
It’s far too late in the game to engage with any of you in any meaning way on this. You gave up the rights to my patience and respect when you all insulted everyone that tried to explain this to you- over and over again.
I’m here to call out the bad faith bullshit, and point and laugh at the failed attempts to interfere with an election.
Nothing more.
Not my fault that you’re explanations explain nothing. But we can agree that’s it’s largely pointless to argue.
It’s not bad faith to not enjoy genocide. I would never argue that in bad faith because I actually believe genocide is bad.
I guess voting in an election is technically interfering in it but odd way to put that.
I would love to signal for PSL but unfortunately I have to vote
As long as you don’t live in Alaska, Nevada, Montana, South Dakota, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Georgia or Pennsylvania you can signal for psl when you vote!