That is actually spot on. 😂
Or do these comments come from society as a whole? ✨👐✨
From women in society, yes.
And the Daily Mail.
Well, for what it’s worth, I have literally never heard anything like that from even the most misogynistic men I am or was acquainted with. Don’t get me wrong, they definitely had some awful things to say about how a woman dresses, but that specific one was not one of them. The few times I’ve heard similar comments, it was a woman doing it to try embarrassing another woman.
Maybe it’s not about the origin of each and every individual specific possible insult about a woman’s appearance, but rather the whole concept of the importance of their appearance. If you all are catching my drift.
I’m not saying it’s like this. I’m just asking “new” questions to make us all think. Maybe it’s not like that. But it’s food for thought perhaps.
I have literally never heard anything like that from even the most misogynistic men I am or was acquainted with
That’s because men really don’t give a fuck if women wear the same outfit multiple times. Most of men don’t even notice.
Every time my wife worries about not wearing the same thing, I get her to list any outfit the others were wearing last time.
It’s all in your head.
I’ve worn the same dress to pretty much every holiday and family event for at least the past 8 years. I don’t know if anyone thinks it’s weird or wrong. What I do know is that every person I’ve dated within that timeframe has told me that it’s their favorite of my outfits.
And that’s the closest I get to caring what anyone else thinks about it.
My wife had people asking if she was going to wear her awesome sequin dress to her Xmas party one year and were sad she was going to try something else, all of them older (40s-60s)
She and I both have only ever heard of this whole “don’t wear something to 2 events”, my mom (late 50s) has also never actually seen it in person. Maybe we’re too poor?
First, bullshit. Second, there’s no way a woman wouldn’t wear a simple black cocktail dress twice, even in a row.
girls cant wear the same dress twice
$5 says she’s typing this out in yoga pants.
I still don’t really care
We don’t even get multiple outfit options. We get
- a suit
- an innoticably different suit
A tan suit
You can make your own clothes like me (early 50s, married cishet male), then have people question your sexuality and try to hook you up with their guy friends.
I just like dressing the way I want to dress and sometimes I want a burgundy corduroy dress suit or neon trews.
Huge respect to people who can do that. I do like watching some sewing channels on YouTube occasionally as it looks relaxing. But I’m definitely way too busy and clumsy for that. I’d end up sewing two fingers together.
It also looks like an expensive thing, right? Whenever I see someone buying cloth it’s always wildly expensive. Not to mention the other stuff you need to make things properly.
Well, it depends on how you look at the price. Take the corduroy suit, for example. It took 4 meters of material. If I recall correctly, it was about €20/meter, plus the lining for another €40, so €120 in total. Then buttons, thread, and what not, MAYBE €20. I already own all the sewing equipment, so that’s not really a factor after multiple years, but let’s call that €60. Let’s say €200 all in. Then it takes about 12 hours for measuring, cutting, and sewing.
A similar “fast fashion” suit is around €250-300, then it needs to be tailored, so let’s say €350-400. I know what I’m about, so the quality of the handmade suit is better, with more precise and actually finished stitching, properly sewn on buttons, and much higher quality materials. It’ll last for years with proper care, while fast fashion clothing tends to fall apart quite quickly.
So it’s a bit cheaper in materials, a huge investment in time, but it fits perfectly and lasts much longer. Also no sweat shops.
Sounds reasonable if you’re comparing suits for sure. Especially since you can tailor it yourself and no doubt get a better fit than something off the rack.
I’m thinking more general like for example a regular shirt or pants. The jeans I’m wearing cost 35 euros, and I imagine I’d end up spending way more on material alone.
Now that you mentioned that suit twice, I’m just gonna ask: got a pic? I’m picturing something like what the Joker wears, but I imagine your suit is probably a bit less tacky :D
Making your own clothing doesnt usually end up being any cheaper than buying it pre made but you can choose your own materials and tailor the fit yourself.
Its definitely a time thing though but modern sewing machines can cut down on it quite a bit.
That doesn’t change anything. The reality is the issue at hand. Is there is a double Standard? Is it very prevalent through out our culture? should it be changed? These are the issues.
Far too often people take any form of feminism to be all encompassing of the most extreme views they’ve heard, or even that others have claimed without reason. Feminism isn’t oppositional to men, it’s not even blaming men, just like toxic masculinity isn’t about ‘‘men bad’’ because it includes problem like ‘‘men are conditioned to repress their emotions which is harmful to men’’ and ‘‘men being drafted and not women perpetuates a view that men are disposable, this is a really negative view that’s deeply harmful to men’’
It’s not about who’s to blame, who is the enforcer, where did it begin. And not every privilege is a insult to the group that has it. Women do have privileges as well, they are less likely to be suspected of child sexual abuse in professions with children, They receive far less prison time for convictions, they get favored in family court rulings. This doesn’t negate all Feminism, nor does it disparage women, these are very borad social realities, that are difficult to change. There are Feminists who have advocates to include women in the draft, there are women who have tried to put forth changes in child rearing to reduce the chance a boy will grow up to be emotionally repressed. It’s not about who is to blame, it’s about seeing a double standard and working on it.
I agree with most of what you said. However, this poster seems to be framing this particular issue as an example of men enforcing a double standard on women. If that’s not what they intended to convey then they should choose a different way to express their idea that better communicates the intended message.
I disagree. The first tweet IS right. It is male privilege that men can wear the same outfit multiple times, and it doesn’t imply it’s enforced by men, it just states that it exist. The fact that women enforce this double standard IS male privilege even when men aren’t to blame
Got it. Even when men aren’t involved in it, even when they don’t much notice, it’s still men’s fault.
Thought experiment: tell us what isn’t somehow men’s fault.
That wasn’t what I said. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt tho, and try to explain it. You are somehow thinking that having a privilege in a system is the privileged’s fault, when in reality they are too a victim of the same system. Of course men aren’t at fault here in this situation, but they still have privilege in it. In this scenario that means men don’t have to worry about repeated usage of clothes the way women do, so they are in a favoured position, they are privileged. This is what it means. No one here is saying that men are the culprit of this system, rather that men don’t experience the same social pressure when it comes to clothes.
I see what you’re saying but I don’t think it truly works that way in practice. As an example, what do we call the fact that women can wear lightweight and breathable clothing (dresses / skirts / spaghetti straps) to work when it’s hot while men have to wear pants and long sleeves? Based on your description it seems like that would be called female privilege but I don’t think I’ve ever heard that phrase used in a genuine fashion before.
That, I think, is why the inference is drawn that men are being blamed for creating the situation when the word male privilege is used. It may theoretically refer to a concept that applies to both men and women but in practice you only ever hear about the situations in which men are seen to benefit. If we don’t have the other side of the conversation then it feels like that other side doesn’t exist even if it is intended to.
“Based on your description it seems like that would be called female privilege but I don’t think I’ve ever heard that phrase used in a genuine fashion before.”
I don’t get the concept that you need to hear other people use ‘female privilege’ specifically in some kind of way for there to be privilege to be applied to women, that’s a very strange Idea, white women in particular have often been used as the biggest examples of white privilege, both as the persons being favored and the enforce or catalyst of violence. You seem much more wrapped up in some kind of sectarian US Against THEM dichotomy rather than even engaging with the discussion.
English Is not my first language, but I agree that should be called female privilege. The same when women don’t get drafted. I think that inference you mentioned is one of the reasons people have negative thoughts about feminism, when in reality all it aims to do is get rid of the different social pressure men and women receive. The point of feminism is not to hate men, but to disentangle our society of harmful expectation, to make it more fair for both men AND women. Circling back to the clothes thing, feminism would have it for women to not be judged by women for repeating clothes, and to give another opposite example, feminism would have it for men to have an easier time entering childcare.
What gives you the impression they are framing it that way?
I responded to another comment along the same lines here if you would like to see it. I would be happy to continue a civil discussion with you if you have more to add.
It seems like you’re taking from the phrase “male privilege” an accusation that this is somehow men’s fault. I think the other commenter said it perfectly well, just because a privilege is afforded to a group doesn’t mean that group is responsible for that privilege. It’s still a privilege that they have.
In your example, wearing dresses might well be considered “female privilege”, yes. I doubt you’d hear this talked about because it’s quite minor, but you’re not wrong. Another example which illustrates it well is “pretty privilege” - we all know that life is easier for attractive people. That doesn’t mean they are oppressing average or unattractive people personally. They just have advantages. Not their fault, still a privilege.
This is a misery of their own making, men have no hand in that!
That’s simply not true. That culture didn’t form in a vacuum. It’s the result of decades of marketing and other societal forces. Everyone bears some responsibility for all subcultures.
We’re too busy doing the same thing to ourselves.
I mean it certainly depends on your social circle, but not really?
Generally speaking, men aren’t as mean to each other as women are, but we’re also not as supportive.
So there’s nothing you think twice about doing because society (specifically other men) will probably give you shit about it?
Sure, a healthy and confident person learns to ignore it – but it’s dishonest to say it isn’t a pervasive thing. Maybe you’re fortune enough to live in a place where isn’t it’s not as bad as elsewhere, but not everyone does.
I mean I try to chose t-shirts with a minimal amount of holes^^ (which is unfortunately a problem for merino-wool I like to wear (because comfort)). But other than that I basically give a shit, about what I wear, I don’t think anyone else cares much about it either, nor do I. It’s also not a thing that anyone spoke to me about it so I guess I’m fine?
I think it’s a lot of internalized pressure and overthinking about what to wear, so why do it, when no one really cares?
internalized pressure and overthinking
Yes, exactly that. What I’m saying it’s it’s a lot more common than it has any right to be – at least in the USA. I’m legitimately happy if you’re insulated from it and/or have the self confidence to see it for what it is and brush it off. I’m of the same mind on that in that I have the confidence to laugh at it and ignore it.
I’m talking about the men that don’t, and how unfortunately it’s a huge problem. My experience has been the opposite: I’m in a “skilled” male dominated blue-collar job: the amount of dysfunctional, toxic masculinity I see on a daily basis is wild. Even when I was “white collar” it was there, if to a lesser degree.
A lot of guys of all ages are deeply insecure and are falling into the “traditional manhood” grift to the detriment of themselves and those around them. The extreme examples like incels, Andrew Tate, right-wing ideas on “manhood”, “trad” idiots gaining momentum are a symptom of a far more widespread problem.
Ok, but why does the gender of the criticing person matter?
Because she is moaning about a certain gender’s privilege and the argument is that the limitation that leads to this privilege is entirely inflicted by the presumed limited gender?
But that is not relevant to whether or not it is an issue. I feel like this is implies that the victims are at fault.
The people who make it a problem to wear the same dress twice are at fault. #NotAllWomen #NoMenAtAll
The point is that when the phrase “male privilege” is used, it carries the implication that the patriarchy is responsible. But in this particular case, women have 100% of the power to make the problem go away and men have 0%. Calling it “male privilege” is counterproductive if you actually want to solve the problem rather than just complain about it.
Your comment betrays deep ignorance both on the matter of privilege and on the responsibility.
And your comment lacks anything of substance that could point me in the right direction if you were right.
Yeah, you want me to explain you quite complicated concepts in a single comment, while using all the terminology wrong, and doing zero work yourself.
Patriarchy isn’t just “men are in charge of everything”, women aren’t “in power of changing the social norms”, responsibility isn’t just “i did something bad and need to fix that”, and privilege means something completely different from whatever you’re implying there.
To elaborate on that I would have to write paragraphs upon paragraphs for each of them, and I’m just not doing that. Since we’re already here, I don’t need to teach you how to look what the words mean beyond the basic five words definition, so I encourage you to do just that.If you can’t explain something in simple terms, that means you don’t understand it yourself. Which is why you’re being so needlessly aggressive and throwing accusations in the first place. It’s because you have such a tenuous grasp on your own theoretical framework that you feel threatened by anyone displaying an opinion that seems to contradict it. You don’t care about righting wrongs, about teaching or even about learning yourself. You only care about protecting your own fragile worldview.
To remedy this, I suggest you open yourself more to diverging opinions - not really in order to change your mind on anything in particular, but because if you only reinforce your current beliefs you’ll miss the forest for the trees. You can actually learn more about your own ideology by studying others and contrasting them.
There, one simple paragraph explaining the problem in terms even a child could understand and another simple paragraph suggesting an actionable solution to that problem, all devoid of aggression and without fake quotations. This is how an adult deals with a misinformed opinion online. I hope this example serves you well in the future.
If the victims are the gender without the privilege (as the woman in OP suggests) and the victims are the same group of people who are making individuals in the group feel bad for wearing the same dress twice (as OP suggests) then the victims, as a group, are at fault, it seems to me.
Is an individual woman who wants to wear a dress again at fault? No, but it ain’t a male privilege issue. It’s a culture among women issue.
The woman in OP seems to be going for “this is yet another way the patriarchy is keeping us down” or similar vibe, and although I usually agree with those sorts of assessments and think toxic masculinity is bad for everyone of any gender, this is definitely an own-goal by women.
Insert obi wan kenobi “you have done that yourself” meme here.
Edit: This also assumes I accept the premise put forth by the woman in OP. Based on things I hear (and don’t hear) from my wife and other women in my life, I’m skeptical that the woman in OP is expressing a universal, or even nearly-universal, truth about whether women can wear an outfit twice.
Just because woman are doing it doesnt mean it is not the patriachy, you can support and uphold the patriarchy as a woman.
Very true. And if you can explain how that is true here, I’m happy to hear it. Also please see my edit, which may not change your response. I did add a little more.
Gonna get to it on the Weekend. Busy days…
Hahahaha 🤣🤪😜
I wish women would wear more dresses either way. They look great. My wife used to, but we are 28 years together and she basically now wears the clothing equivalent of UGGs.
I wish women would wear more of what the individual woman wants to wear, as I do with my attire.
I think there are healthy ways to encourage it. Take her out to a nice dinner. Dress nicely yourself.
But also, find her attractive regardless of the clothes.
But also, find her attractive regardless of the clothes.
I usually find women the most attractive without any.
There’s something about when it’s just a little midriff or something showing…
This, and compliments
“I’m wearing a shirt that makes a man want to buy me another shirt.”
Love Home Movies
What are you wearing that makes her feel like she should dress up? I’d bet you put as much effort into your outfits as the “UGG equivalent” as well.
This is completely true. I started dressing nicer, just because I wanted to look better, and my wife started dressing nicer shortly afterwards. We never even talked about it until much later, it just happened organically
Didn’t work for me. My wife just apologizes for looking homeless when we leave the house.
Ha! Well, better luck next time.
As in, with his next wife?
Haha! No. As in with whatever other issues he’s hoping to find an easy resolution for.
we would be infinitely happier if you wore nothing
I don’t want any woman to suffer hypothermia.
You haven’t known true freedom till you had your nutsack flutter in the wind in front of a bunch of strangers
verily. winter is not kind to flapping though
That’s why you laminate them first. It’s insulating.
So the only opinions that matter are that of straight men? The only reason a woman looks nice is for them?
Who hurt u?
I read differently into that. Some of my gay mates would totally spot if a woman wore the same dress twice. I might not.
Believe it or not… Still toxic masculinity
Go back to Berkeley
I live in Oakland and hate Berkeley’s nimbyism. They have random road blocks to deter people from driving through neighborhoods. Assholes.
Literally says men don’t have an opinion on this…
It’s unreasonable to categorize this as an example of male privilege when men have little to do with it.
That’s not what privilege means. It’s not that men are at fault, although patriarchy as a whole plays a role in it. It’s that men obliviously benefit from something other people, purely because of social reasons tied to gender, have problems with.
That’s what privilege is. White privilege, for instance, isn’t saying that every white person is responsible for systematic racism, it means they don’t have to experience systematic racism, which means they get to pretend it’s not a problem. Because it isn’t, for them.
OP has been grossly misunderstood by the reply and nearly everyone here.
I disagree inasmuch as male privilege does exist but this is a really fucking stupid example to pick and in reality diminishes the seriousness of real issues like the pay gap, glass ceiling, etc.
The real problem in this scenario is other women using the repeated wearing of the same outfit as an excuse to act like assholes.
I’m not a woman, but this doesn’t seem like a trivial issue to me. Basically what they’re saying is that if you’re a woman, you have to invest more time, effort, and money into your wardrobe or face systematic bullying from your peer group. It’s almost like a tax. And when money is involved, it seems to me it rises at least roughly into the same echelon as the pay gap, for instance.
One might say men have something similar with… I dunno. Power tools or something? But I don’t think a guy is as likely to be as severely bullied over not owning an angle grinder as a woman over wearing the same clothes.
This example of male privilege is one that doesn’t involve men so much as, say, the glass ceiling conversation does. Which I’d say means the respondent in that thread should have just butted out. But that doesn’t make it straight up not an issue.
you have to invest more time, effort, and money into your wardrobe or face systematic bullying from your peer group.
This just sounds like an opportunity to ditch the assholes and associate with better people. You’re talking about adults who can make their own decisions but you make it sound like high school.
Individual action works, but society must change for the problem to truly be solved.
It is changing but it’s going so slowly that it’s hard to see progress sometimes.
Today I learned that simply allowing somebody else to be and look like they want to is privilege. Pray tell, kind being, how does one avoid this sort of privilege? Should I be pushing my opinion on everything with ears?
I contest the original premise. When I was traveling a lot for work, I spent a lot of time packing to ensure that I had enough combinations of shirts, ties, belts, and shoes such that I never wore the same outfit twice. Yes, I did economize on suits, and tended to bring only one; that’s because men don’t have the female privilege of having such a vast variety of acceptable business-wear. Being able to dress in outfits for work that don’t take up nearly an entire carry-on by themselves is a luxury men don’t have. Shit, I wish I could wear skirts; they take up less packing space.
On the other hand, the shoe situation for women sucks. A man can get away with one pair of shoes for a week; it’s a lot harder for women to match a week’s worth of business clothes to a single pair of shoes… and in a pinch, a man can wear those shoes anywhere, whereas a woman doesn’t want to be in the same heels all day, every day. That’s an advantage men have.
Women can mix and match outfits just as well as men do; they can get away with two different shirts and two different pants and make it last 4 days without comment, same as a man can. And a guy that wears the same suit, shirt, and tie 4 days in a row will definitely get noticed, and not in a positive way.
You got it, Sherlock.
I would imagine gay men would care even less.
I would not be so certain tbh. I know a gay guy in the fashion industry and I bet he would judge women.
Then again probably straight people in fashion would do the same…
As a woman, my female friends are more likely to tell me that they like that dress after seeing it a few times
I honestly don’t think most people care regardless of sex… maybe this is just rich people problems.
