I’m considering buying a new TV. There’s plenty of posts about trying to find dumb TVs, comments like ‘just don’t connect it to the internet/network’.

What surprises me is that there isn’t a good overview of (popular) TVs or brands with basic information, answering for each TV:

  • Can you use it as a basic TV by choosing not to enable smart features during setup?
  • Can you opt out by just not accepting a bunch of agreements?
  • Does it have a camera and/or microphone? Where in the device are these? Is there a physical disable switch for microphone?
  • Does it nag when not connected to any network?
  • Does it have higher than normal power usage when not able to phone home?
  • Has it been discovered to connect to public WiFi networks? Does it have the (theoretical) ability to connect to 5G mobile networks?

And similar.

There are extensive lists with a lot of detail about VPN services but nothing like that for TVs. Am I ignorant of a good source, or does this just not exist (yet)?

    • dragonrules@lemmy.world
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      13 days ago

      I recently found myself in the market for one of these when my father in law decided to connect my Vizio TV to the internet. All the updates since 2019 installed and it became unusable with all the crap they installed/changed. No way to downgrade firmware.

      I bought a 55” Samsung display and it works great as a dumb tv. I can connect via HDMI and my antenna just like a regular tv. The interface is a little clunky at times but that’s because it’s set up for a display board. I can even plug my flash drive into it for videos/pictures. It will never connect to the internet although it has that capability (and apparently an app for if it’s used as a display).

  • Tenkard@lemmy.ml
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    13 days ago

    Just set up a TCL and it has a “basic” option which makes it work without anything. I’m still trying to decide if I should buy a Nvidia shield to pair with it so I enabled it “fully” for now, will probably switch it back. It’s basically android so many of these behaviours are just like on android phones

  • Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
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    14 days ago

    Samsung is known to be one of the more cancerous of ad-ridden “smart” TVs

    I haven’t had any issues with my Sony TV but I bought it several years ago and don’t really use it (I generally consume content on my PC with 3 monitors). It is not connected to any network.

  • GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
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    14 days ago

    What I don’t understand is why don’t you just buy a monitor and connect a digital TV receiver to it via an adapter (if it doesn’t have an HDMI output). It’ll be more expensive for sure and it will require a design-hostile antenna but all the privacy issues should just go out of the window.

    • The Doctor@beehaw.orgEnglish
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      14 days ago

      From trying to get people to do that (with no success), it’s because it seems too much like work. Folks want something they can plug in and go… but plugging in one extra thing is just a bridge too far these days. It’s frustrating as shit.

      • Tab@feddit.nlOP
        0·
        13 days ago

        I hear you, but I’m not an example of this. I have a Pi-hole set up, firewalled my phone, happily use LibreWolf, etc.

        Besides that, I also want to do the research on what screen to get. If a worse screen (small one, monitor or digital signage) is the only acceptable solution, then that’s what I’ll pick – but having some idea of what it would mean to pick a typical smart TV and try to limit the consequences is also something I want to consider. The only frustrating thing to me is that it’s hard to find out details about this (and that includes details about digital signage screen quality, for instance, since businesses don’t seem to care all that much).

    • Im_old@lemmy.world
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      14 days ago

      Do they make 55" OLED monitors? Only stuff I’ve seen is LED, and I’m pretty sure the picture/color quality is inferior to proper tv panel

      • GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml
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        14 days ago

        I think the color quality of good monitors is far superior to it in TVs because monitors are meant for professional image editing. The size may be a problem though. Usually monitors are not more than 27".

    • tab@sh.itjust.works
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      14 days ago

      monitors are generally made to be viewed up close - if video quality is no issue, then a commercial display /digital signage is also okay.

      however, a good detailed list of tv aspects would help with even that choice.

      not shooting any option down - just wondering about available resources/information.

  • Sam_Bass@lemmy.ml
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    12 days ago

    the only time i let mine connect through my hotpotted phone is to check for and download software updates. last one was about 4 months ago at justover 500mb

  • quixotic120@lemmy.worldEnglish
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    14 days ago

    the answer is basically all TVs are subsidized to some degree. A list is somewhat pointless because they all do some sketchy shit and as lg has recently shown they reserve the right to change the terms years after the fact with firmware updates, even if you buy a flagship model that cost 3-5k

    Basically you need to use it intelligently. Either don’t connect it to the internet at all, only connect it to an intranet/isolated vlan, or (least effective) block every suspicious outgoing request with your router or a dns thing like adguard/pihole.

    The alternatives are to buy a non consumer display (eg something for signage or for like a meeting room in an office) which are usually more durable but also often far more expensive (no ad subsidies), the panel quality is generally noticeably worse (unless you’re buying a mediocre tv), and you lose out on enthusiast features (earc, vrr, etc). Or you can get a solid projector; the cheap projectors are usually kind of junk but nice ones are quite nice and often (but not always, they’re increasingly “smart”) have barebones ui/os. This can be pretty impractical for your living situation though

    • Tab@feddit.nlOP
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      14 days ago

      I get what you’re saying. What I’m running into is that there is little information on what happens if you ‘dont connect it to the internet at all’. I would happily do that, but as another comment notes, some devices keep whining until you do connect them, while others don’t. I can also easily set up a separate ‘fake’ network to black-hole all the communication attempts of the TV, but I have no idea whether that would stop the nagging – or the attempts for it to connect to public WiFi access points.

      It would be really cool if people experimenting with this kind of thing could pool their findings, that’s all.

  • rutrum@lm.paradisus.dayEnglish
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    14 days ago

    For best privacy, get a monitor and a tv box (like nvidia shield, or roll your own software a single board computer like a raspberry pi). That might be the only way to trust a tv: dont use it at all.

  • Boomkop3@reddthat.com
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    14 days ago

    Personally, I say F smart tv’s. The smart bit is going to be old and useless in three years. The panel will last me over a decade.

    Yes, you can ignore all the nagging and smart stuff and just set it to an hdmi input or something.

    Then hooking up a 3rd party smart box is what I recommend.

  • robolemmy@lemmy.worldEnglish
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    14 days ago

    I love how literally nobody is answering your actual question.

    I agree that this is problematic and we need TV reviews to include at least some of the information you cite.

    If it helps, I have an LG smart TV. It complains if you don’t let it access the internet at setup, but if you connect it once and let it do its initial patching, you can decline all agreements and not get nagged until it tries to update again. To keep it from further updates, you can disconnect it from wifi and it doesn’t seem to try to reconnect. I can’t speak to public wifi because there aren’t any open access points near my TV.

    In contrast, I have a samsung TV that loses its mind if it can’t connect to the internet and becomes basically useless for all the nagging.

    • Tab@feddit.nlOP
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      14 days ago

      Thanks! See, that distinction is super helpful. I’ve found (old) lists of Smart TV OSes and how their privacy settings work (or don’t), with some details on what happens when you decline EULA’s, but not many and not very useful ones.

      The answer may well be that anyone that actually cares about this stuff just doesn’t buy any smart TV (or otherwise hasn’t had to in the last few years). Still, with the answer ‘just don’t connect it to the internet’ being the most common, I’d expected to see a bit more information like you’ve given.

      So the Samsung keeps nagging even when you’re watching direct HDMI input? And does the LG need to boot up the entire (Web)OS to view HDMI input?

      • robolemmy@lemmy.worldEnglish
        0·
        14 days ago

        The Samsung tries to “identify” what’s on an hdmi input before it will connect. It seems to call out to the internet to do that because it takes forever to fail and show you the display anyway when it’s not connected to the internet. Even when it is connected, it takes a stupidly long time to switch to a new input. I super hate it and will never buy another samsung tv.

        I guess the lg needs to boot tizen before it works, because I see the logo briefly but then it goes directly to the last used input with no other bullshit, so it’s fine with me.

  • arun58@lemmy.world
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    13 days ago

    I can’t answer all your questions, but this issue with my TCL Android TV is frustrating.

    I’ve had it for 4 years, and due to constant Wi-Fi issues, I keep it deactivated, yet still get occasional notifications.

    More concerning, I don’t trust the microphone is off, as the LED sometimes stays on, and Bluetooth visibility often resets.

  • Know_not_Scotty_does@lemmy.world
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    14 days ago

    No one makes a 65+" oled monitor so before anyone suggests “just buy a monitor” you can’t, I have looked.

    Up until last year, I would have said get a good quality projector but even projectors have started getting infiltrated with smart “features” now.

    Digital signage was also an option but oled options are basically non-existent and they often have matte screens that make the colors kind of mushy.

    From what I have read online, the Sony tv offerings seem to be pretty unintrusive and don’t really care if you hook them up to the internet. The smart software is android tv based and can potentially be modded/stripped of google services. I have to do some more research though so don’t quote me on the above.

    Our current TCL/Roku tv is dying and has turned out to be really bad smart/privacy wise and has gotten consistently worse performance wise over time. I’m currently evaluating options for its replacement and the Sony 65" oled is looking like the best one so far.

  • FriendBesto@lemmy.ml
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    13 days ago

    Personally, I got a large dumb flat TV and use a small PC attached to it with Linux with all the privacy trimmings, VPN, etc. Use a browser, like Librewolf or FF with ArkenFox, along with Freetube on it which we control with KDEConnect from our phones. Once you setup the proper commands on it, it is fly and forget. You can pick a stripped, privacy focused distro, too. Most of my PCs/phones are on WiFi but for that box I plug it to the router via cable, directly, for faster display speeds. You can download other media software and run it through, if you wish.

    Power usage is minimal or at least I do not see my power bill go up substantially, or noticeably. Have had this type of setup for over 15 years. Never had to worry about microphones or cameras as there are none to worry about. No terms to agree to that will get changed on a moment’s notice, either. No spying or dialing home. Sometimes, the best way to win is just to not play their games. Have 0 complains.

    • Tab@feddit.nlOP
      0·
      13 days ago

      I currently have a similar setup, but with a very old TV (that served me well for 16 years). Not easy to find good dumb TVs these days though.

  • Nicro@discuss.tchncs.de
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    11 days ago

    Interesting discussion, but many of the questions have pretty lame default answers. I have a Sony bravia from 2015 for reference.

    • The TVs that come with an OS instead of just firmware are smart-TVs in all aspects. Your cable TV or hdmi input is an app just like Netflix is, and is subject to a launcher. You can’t make it dumb by disabling stuff.

    • You can mostly reject targeted ads and disable personalized data collection. But smart TVs are priced with ads included, so completely turning off everything will require unsupported modding.

    • cameras are only found in telepresence hardware, unless you want to be paranoid. Check the feature list. Microphones can be in the remotes of some TVs, but this will usually be advertised as a smart assistent if present.

    • I haven’t seen any TV actively complain about missing wifi (except for during setup for updates)

    • unless you are tricking the TV into thinking it’s online, any connection attempts/power usage would be a bug. Do note that smart-TV will by default have a standby-draw influenced by WoL or similar.

    • This is pure tinfoil-territory. No hotspot/carrier carries data without being payed for it. It’s also not economical when telemetry can be sent over the customers home-wifi in 99% of cases. There is no gain in hiding sim-cards in every TV. Unless you are a person of interest and are sent a modified TV in that case.

    Hope this helps.