You always hear the phase “9 to 5” and also the song with the same name. Assuming you include 1 hour worth of breaks (30 minute lunch and two 15 minute breaks), you’re only working for 7 hours a day which comes up to 35 hours a week.
Now it feels like you have to work 8 hours a day (for a total of 40 hours of actual work), plus your other time off meaning you’re really there for 9 hours each day (for a total of 45 hours). Am i looking at that wrong, or did expected times change, and if so, when?
It has definitely changed, I don’t know when, but it’s been like this for at least the last decade.
Though, in my experience (NB: I’m a software engineer, which is a notoriously lax field.) only what the piece of paper says has changed. Hell, most of my employee handbooks have claimed that “full time” is 50 hours a week. They get away with it because I’m classified as a “computer employee” (lol) and make more than $35k/year (super lol) which means my employment is exempted from minimum wage and overtime pay laws.
Nobody that I know actually works that consistently. Most people I know don’t even do 40. I do 9-5 (or 8:30-4:30 usually), I take breaks when I need them and nobody has ever complained to me about the amount I’m working.
My only guess for why it’s this way is that having that be the official working time means it’s easier to fire anyone for no reason because they’re not working their “contractually obligated” amount of time.
I actually had an argument with a former employer quite a few years ago about that ‘computer operator’ / ~36k limit thing.
My scummy boss at that time was telling me that because of those stipulations I wasn’t eligible for any overtime and they could demand I work as many hours as they want - even though I was hourly. When I said that didn’t sound right he dared me to look up our state’s employment laws.
So I did (side note: I’m in one of the most employee-friendly states), and it very clearly said that my boss was profoundly wrong. So I sent him the URL to that page. And he and the piece of shit HR person shut right up about it. Me and all of my colleague never heard that ridiculous argument again.
My last couple of jobs, including my current one, have been much more reasonable and accommodating. Even though I’m now salary, they aren’t exploitative of me or my colleagues.
So my advice to other IT folk is: take the time to check up on your state’s employment laws. If you are being exploited by your employer they may be totally in the wrong.
So my advice to other IT folk is: take the time to check up on your state’s employment laws. If you are being exploited by your employer they may be totally in the wrong.
100%
I’m unfortunately in a state with even more vague and useless definition of who gets to be exempt than the federal definition.
Shit, 45 hours a week would be amazing, my now former employer wanted me working 5 12hour shifts and pay me so little I needed a weekend job on top of that.
What the fuck job did you do
Professional blood donor
I guess it depends on the company. Mine clearly expects us to work on 37.5 hours per week whether you work non stop from 9 to 4.30 or from 7 to 7 with many long breaks. And any overtime I do during the week makes my day at work on Friday that much shorter.
Dutch law describes a mandatory break of 30 minutes (or 2 15 minute breakes) if a working day is longer that 5.5 hours. Break is not work, thus not payed.
This neglects that the breaks are not free time spent as desired and is entirely constrained to the circumstances of employment. You would not eat or do the same tasks in the timespan. Therefore it is not your time and should be compensated for. Like owning a vehicle, you still own it even when you are not driving it or it is broken down. Pretending ownership is only limited to the time the vehicle is in gear and moving is delusional logic for any such pro slavery State. Employment must include far more ethical responsibly than this.
Using that logic this includes commuting, as that is also not free time spent as desired.
Yes. And if you interview for an 8 to 5 job, you tell them that it sounds like a crock of shit and you don’t want the job.
So sick of that shit. Fuck any employer who pulls this shit.
Crock of shit or no, a man’s gotta eat. That’s kind of how we got into this problem in the first place. They have a captive audience.
I don’t WANT your crock of shit job! I’ll go live on the streets!!! I’ll give blowjobs for $20! And hey…you want a blowjob? Got $20?
I think i would just not apply if i felt like you do
Employers don’t usually broadly advertise their anti-perks. This is the kind of thing you usually discover with a question during an interview or when you’re handed your employment contract.
In Canada, the regulations have been 8 hour workday with two paid 15 minute breaks in that period and an unpaid 30 minute break for salaried workers, unless otherwise agreed by contract, since I started working in the early 90s.
This means a lot of people work 9-5:30 or 8:30-5. Union jobs generally have a 8 hour day in total with a 1 hour lunch break, and other professions have other arrangements.
For a number of years, I took my “lunch break” at 5 and just worked a straight 8 hour day with two 15 minute breaks.
if someone tried to dictate the amount of work hours that I put in during the day I would just start puking and shitting
I’m pretty sure it’s in your contract of employment
not if you’re a wizard
Having worked in a couple of European countries, I thought 7.5 hours of work plus a half an hour lunch break is the norm everywhere in the western world. So the 9 to 5 did totally make sense to me. I was honestly surprised reading all these comments.
Nevermind the world. Even here in Europe in Switzerland the standard is somehow 42 hours a week.
In Spain it’s 40h a week maximum but to explain it simply there are 2 ways to go higher: 1. some professions can go higher as long as they compensate later the same year (the total maximum hours are anually, not weekly). 2.up to 80h a year on extra hours that need to be paid.
That said, that’s what the law says but many people do extra hours without getting paid and people do not sue for a few hours a year.There are various exceptions in Switzerland too, I think the weekly maximum if going over your contract is 50h and that can either be paid with 25% extra, or compensated by free time in another week. And then even this maximum can be surpassed by another 2h/d, for a real max of 60h, if there is exceptional work that needs to be done, also paid with 25% extra, or compensated by free time in another week.
It seems a little complicated to me, lukily I haven’t really had to deal with those protections in the law yet, since my workplace is pretty sensible overall.
Here in America I work 7.5 with two 15 minute paid breaks and a half hour unpaid lunch. So it’s really more like 8:30-5
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I get as many coffee breaks in the office as I want but it’s not like I get up, grab a cup and then play on my phone while I drink my coffee for 15 minutes. I get up, grab a cup, maybe say hi to someone as it brews an instant cup, then go back to my desk and drink while I am working. But no one is shadowing down my neck saying I can’t leave my desk until 10:15 and I need to be back by 10:30 or my pay is docked. Freedom and responsibility rather than strict time management and punishment.
We need to strike for slow coffee machines. These instant pots are a tool of oppression!
You’re making coffee in an instant pot? Tell me more!
Yeah, I think the 9-5 mentality comes from a time when men would spend most of the day socializing, drinking, and sexually harassing the secretary. Back then the boys would go to lunch whenever and leave the work to the nerds and the women.
It depends on where you are and whether you join a union or not. Labor laws vary by state and by country. Paid lunches and breaks may or may not be part of your employment contract.
USA. Been working 20 years. Every job has been 8 to 5, unpaid 1h lunch, 2x15min paid breaks. :(
The last time I worked hourly was the late 90s. We got a paid 15 break per 4 hours worked. If we worked more than 6 hours, we also got an unpaid 30 minute lunch. I got no benefits because I was part-time at 37.5 hours per week.
Imagine being that guy scheduling people for 39.9 hours thinking you’re a goddamn genius.
The “genius” was the IN state Congress that made it law that 37.5 and under must be considered part time, even for minors. I was working exactly that every week while also going to high school when I was 16.
37.5 hours
part-time
crazy, in my world that’s pretty much full time
I believe it is where I am too, 36+ is full-time for benefits requirements. Apparently the insurance company asked my employer to please make sure I was working at least 36hrs a week, because for a month or so I was only getting to 32.
That’s wild that it wasn’t full time. IRS now defines 30 as full-time thankfully
did […] included
Nope. It’s ‘did include’ .
It’s one of those ambiguous things that employers seem to be leveraging to their advantage. Where I work, plenty of people do 8-5. Those of us who have been around longer and don’t give as much of a shit will count lunch as part of our day.
As a guy with an actual office job. It’s usually 8-5 or 9-6 with an hour lunch, plus whatever time you spend on coffee or whatever.
It’s pretty standard, and it’s been that way for a couple decades at least.
And that lunch hour is unpaid.
Everything changed. You’re not crazy. If you watch movies made before the 2000s about office culture, including the movie 9 to 5, you can see that the hours included a lunch break. Which was paid.
Yes, those of the older generation had it easier in every way.
Is the part about being able to socialize also a mythic fantasy? Where ever do people work that they find the time to have conversations?
Is this a US thing? Do you not get paid for your lunch hour? That’s wild.
Spaniard here. Not only does my company not pay me for lunch time. It also demands it to be at least 30 minutes long. How is it even legal to force my unpaid time to be a minimum amount?
It’s probably a law. Mandatory minimum breaks make perfect sense for factory workers.
They should be paid though
In the US, you’re lucky if you get paid for the hours you work. And many don’t get all of their hours paid.
In the US, it’s Salary, not Hourly. It’s not “getting paid for the time”, you get paid for doing the job you agreed to do.
That’s just salaried folks though. The vast majority of american workers are hourly or contractors. Per the Dept of Labor’s own site:
The Wage and Hour Division is dedicated to protecting and enhancing the welfare of the nation’s workforce with a focus on low-wage, underserved workers. In fiscal year 2023, we successfully recovered over $274 million in back wages and damages for more than 163,000 workers nationwide.
Wage theft is when employers don’t properly pay their employees and is a HUGE problem because it isn’t always out of malevolence, it can be as simple as the time clock not properly computing overtime, etc.
If you don’t think that $274 million is large amount, think about how the vast majority of these things never get reported to the authorities; that number should be higher.
Source for quote: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/data
Most salaried workers are written up if they fail to work 8+ hours. Salaried is now just a method to deny people overtime - fancied salaried workers may still operate in the intended way but even most developers I know have to obey some sort of time tracking method.
No. Some jobs are hourly and some are salary.
I live in Canada. We get a half-hour lunch that isn’t paid in my province.
Also, if you take more than 3 sick days a year, your boss can fire you. And the 3 sick days are unpaid. The government lowered the number from 10 to 3 shortly before the pandemic, and didn’t raise it again! Oh, and to count, your boss can demand a doctor’s note. Which cost money to the patient.
Where do you live, Alberta? Or one of the maritimes??
Sounds like Ontario 🙃
That really sounds like one of the flat-lander regions.
I get 21 holidays a year, not counting every second friday off because of my 9x9 compressed-time agreement. If I plan it right, and hit the stats with the comp days, that’s 7 weeks off a year. Why, that’s almost european. I’ve just finished my first year at this shop.
It’s Ontario! aka. Open for (Big) Business. No longer “Yours to Discover” because it’s all been sold off.
Damn, Canada is becoming less and less a viable escape plan from American fascism…
There might still be some decent provinces.
But yeah, I blame brain drain, cuts to the education system, and the influence of American culture! Haha
That’s so toxic! I get an hour long paid lunch break, and a bunch of paid sick days. Your work’s policies are shit, I’m so sorry!
It’s not my work’s policies. I get better than that. It’s what my province legally mandates that’s the problem.
Oh shit, sorry! I’m so happy you get better than that. Those are garbage mandates that predatory businesses for sure take advantage of. I hope your stuff is as good (ideally better) than mine.
It doesn’t affect me but my work also rolled out months of paternity leave which is BAAAAASED
Thank you.
I definitely agree with businesses doing right by their employees. I just wish the governments would be doing more to protect ALL employees. I vote based on which parties are looking out for everyone, not based on whatever works best for me because I’ve got better than the legal minimum.
You get paid for lunch? Where is that? We don’t either in Switzerland
In Spain, if you work more than 6h you have at least a 15 minutes break that almost always is paid. But people usually work 5 or 6h, 1 or 2 hours for lunch (not paid), then the rest.
Ah that’s interesting, thanks.
Here in Switzerland if a shift is longer than 5.5 hours it needs to have at minimum 15min unpaid break for lunch by law. Longer than 7 hours means 30min unpaid lunch and longer than 9 hours means an hour unpaid lunch by law. Additionally if the split is uneaven such that the period before or after lunch is over 5.5 hours, then you recursively get another break following the above rule by law. But these are all unpaid and do not count as hours worked.
The usual reality for typical 8.2 h/d office jobs is that people take half an hour to an hour of lunch, unpaid, and companies allow two 15 min paid coffee breaks, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, despite not being forced to by law.
The unpaid break is also the same in the general work law (Estatuto de los Trabajadores) but professions get extra laws that apply to them (convenio del metal, convenio de farmacia, etc) where they can go better than the general law, and most ‘convenio’ pay for that 15 min break. Lunch time? Never paid unless you agree directly with your company, but some nice companies (I don’t have numbers but in my experience in the IT industry may be around 30% of them) give you 10-12€ a day to help pay your lunch or they have cafeterias where you eat for 4 or 5€.
Ha! Hour. You’re funny. Federal law only gives half an hour.
Ha! Nah, Federal law doesn’t require a lunch period, or breaks, at all. It’s all state side.
Only thing is that if an employer gives a short break, like 5-20 mins, it must be paid and included in overtime.
Where do you get paid for your lunch hour? I’m in Germany and while work life balance is certainly a thing here, more so than in the US, a paid lunch break is something I have never heard about.
Depends on the state, in my state you legally have to get paid for 30 minute lunches but not hour long lunches. No idea why but because of this most office jobs will give you an hour lunch in addition to your mandated 2, 10 minute breaks.
Honestly I would love to just take a 30 minute break and get out earlier. It’s not even about the money.
Same in Germany, I think this common in many countries, no?
Typically no but my current employer pays us for 1/2 of our 1 hour lunch.
Most people don’t. So, for an average employee, it would be 9-530 to account for their unpaid 30m lunch required by law.
I believe many places lunch is not required, and neither is any limit on number of hours per day required.
Those old tv shows where they casually eat breakfast before work make more sense. They weren’t up at 6, rushing to get to work by 8. They had a whole hour more.
They also had someone to make it for them. One income was enough for the household.
