I have been using Logitech peripherals for years. Logitech gear always just worked.
Now they demand internet accounts to use the features of the keyboard and mouse that I purchased. WTF?
Not only that, have to use wide-open-to-snooping Chrome to adjust the settings. You cannot adjust/use your mouse and keyboard if you just use Firefox.
This only makes sense if they are planning (or are already) tracking my every move online to sell to advertisers or spooks.
What are the good options?
Also, if anybody sees how these changes could be benign, please let me know.
EDIT:
By popular demand:
The keyboard I bought that started this journey: MX Keys S
The key feature that first demanded cloud access: Swithing between computers, now it is requires it to adjust the receivers. I have both a Bolt and a Unifying receiver.
Mouse (actually a trackball) that now is requesting that I use a Chrome Browser to adjust it: M570
Software:
The Logi SetPoint Settings I open from Windows now requires you to log into your Logitech account to make changes to your Unifying or 2.4 ghz usb receiver. This link takes you to a screen that says Logi Web Connect. It does not work unless you use the latest version of Chrome, Edge, & Opera, but reccomends Chrome for the best experience.
Logitech + used to require this to enable options, but I don’t see it on my Windows computer anymore. It is still on my Mac, but upon opening it to confirm for this message, it seems to be announcing that it is now able to incorporate AI into everything I type. (ugggh)
What you want is to go along with the business line of logitechs products and scrap the rest. There is an offline version of Logi Options+ “for air gapped machines” available. https://prosupport.logi.com/hc/en-hk/articles/10991109278871-Logitech-Options-Offline-Installer You may use it in a virtual machine aswell.
I’ve switched to the cheapest generic mice purchased online that have no extra features and function like a state of the art wireless mouse did 15 years ago.
I still don’t have a smart TV, I just buy the largest flat screen monitors I can find.
any smart device outside of a smartphone is so much more frustration than it’s worth.
Find a mouse and keyboard you like and buy 5-10 of them. Put them in heavy duty ziploc bags with a few dessicant packets and store them in your freezer.
“The company to which I’ve always given my money because I trusted them to make good products has started taking advantage of my trust and is producing shitty products. How do I avoid this?”
Stop buying their products the moment they stop making good ones.
I feel your frustration, but I think you already knew the answer. Any workaround or jailbreak or open source firmware update would just be avoiding the problem, not fixing it. Stop buying Logitech products.
I procure for my company I am not touching Logitech anymore.
Independent of Logitech and other HID makers turning to shit, I’ve been eying some open source / DIY mice (like the Ploopy) for a while. Seems like a fun project that also helps me keep control of my own systems. And it’d give me something to tinker with.
Ploopy and maybe a Corne keyboard are on my TODO list this winter
This looks very cool!
I bought a logitech G502 mouse on a whim because my Razer Naga died (still pissed about it) and I needed a replacement. I hate it. I hate the software you have to use to get the fucking buttons to work, and I wish another company made a mouse like the Razer Naga. (I’m not buying another fucking razer product if I can help it, wasn’t the first razer product to just stop working on me)
I wish Logitech didn’t discontinue the g600 (12 side button MMO mouse), I’ve got like 4 of them but they’re getting kinda janky and a little too software dependant.
That would be better than what I’ve got, but I’m not a fan of the MMO style 9/12 button panels.
Idk if it’s an ADHD thing or what, but I tend to accidentally press the buttons if I don’t have a place to rest my thumb. Same reason I can’t use controllers with paddle style back buttons.
The specific attachment I liked on the Razer Naga was the one that had six buttons in two rows on the top, and a pad at the bottom for resting your thumb. It was perfect.
Edit: See the outermost panel. I’ve yet to find another mouse with one just like that. Even better was that they were automatically mapped to Numpad keys, which was great since my keyboard doesn’t have them, but every application recognizes them.
I find the 12 button great for cycling through weapons/items/abilities in games without having to pull up a weapon wheel. Weirdly for an MMO I prefer the number row over numpad, better for hotbars.
Every Naga I’ve had died except for my old non-RGB Magma, still have it in a drawer I think. It had a nice switch on the bottom to go from numpad to num row modes.
Naga would be the ultimate gaming accessory if it didn’t have a tendency to just fucking die one day
I’ve done a lot of de-enshitification in my digital life over the past year, most recently by de-google my phone. I’m going to be honest: It’s not easy, nor convenient, and a lot of the time not cheap. You really have to go out of your way to get what you want, sacrificing at least something a long the way (features, usability, etc). It takes quite a bit of desire and determination to move away from the modern garbage that these companies shove your way, and I’m honestly not sure if it’s worth it for the average person because of the massive amount of effort that it takes.
All of the above is to say that if you really want to avoid enshitification you’re gonna have to make changes, such as buying a different set of peripherals for your pc, and that it’s not gonna be easy. The real question is: is all of that work worth it for you?
For me it 100% has been.
Keyboard wise? At this point, prices have dropped enough that there is no real reason to go to one of the major manufacturers for anything that isn’t disposable. And basically “all” of the smaller batch mechanical keyboards are dependent on QMK or VIA to some degree which means you can customize them on any machine that can run chrome.
For the logitech price point/build quality? Unless you know why you don’t want one, you can’t go wrong with a Keychron (https://www.keychron.com/). The price and build quality isn’t “the best” but it is very much on par with the logitechs and razers of the world and they are perfect for someone who just wants “a keyboard that works” or someone who wants to learn what they ACTUALLY want out of a keyboard.
Mouse wise? There are an increasing number of “third parties” but… they basically all suck unless you are going to go crazy and mod them. And while I think the firmware matters less in these cases, there are an increasing number of qmk/via mice but… they mostly feel “cheap” or like they are just proving the viability. I have a friend with a ploopy but even he doesn’t really recommend it. So… you are still more or less suck with logitech and razer and the like for that. But hopefully as those companies lock their hardware down more it will lead to something in between “here is a cheap no name ergonomic mouse” and “here is a five hundred dollar mouse”.
The Keychron K2 and K6 both look solid. Starting at $70 for a Bluetooth/wired mechanical keyboard, RGB backlighting, extra keycaps for Macs / OS toggles… there’s even a hot swappable variant for $10 more (or heck, on sale for $70), option for an aluminum frame… shame they don’t run on QMK.
Oh - turns out they have several keyboards that do run QMK/VIA, like the K6 Pro.
If I used staggered keyboards for anything other than gaming, or if I didn’t already have a wireless gaming keyboard, I’d be considering one.
Keychron’s relationship with QMK is a touch fraught. If they claim a wireless board supports QMK, it only truly supports it in wired mode. In wireless mode, they’re either using a secondary MCU or an off-license fork of QMK, as the mainline doesn’t support wireless for licensing reasons.
Out of curiosity, what is your non-gaming keyboard? Lot’s of fun stuff over at !ergomechkeyboards@lemmy.world
to add to the subject of gaming, i personally do not recommend using a keychron for gaming. the latency, at least the one i’m on (keychron C1) is quite a noticeable downgrade from the logitech keyboard i switched from, though at least it feels and sounds miles better than the logitech.
as a disclaimer, i am very sensitive to that latency since i’m a modern tetris player. it’s also way less noticeable in shooters and other 3D action games, so i guess for most people it’s fine?
for a gaming keyboard from a non-shitty company, you can’t get much better than a wooting.
Yeah. Keychrons are kind of a clusterfuck because they release like five limited runs every month. But… basically all of those are the same feature sets but might have slightly different internals based on whatever they bought in bulk the previous month. It DOES make figuring out what to buy kind of annoying but… logitech and razer have been doing that for years anyway.
I think the mice and keyboard requiring “Chrome” is actually due to WebHID. WebHID is only supported in Chromium browsers. Now here’s the fun part, this thread has VIA mentioned a couple times and even though VIA/QMK/ZMK are FOSS, the usevia.app website requires a, you guessed it, WebHID capable browser.
That said, don’t use Logitech keyboards. Sell it to a sucker on local and buy any of the above compatible keyboards instead. Drop CSTM, Luminkey, Keychron, Akko, QK NEO, CK Bakaneko, there’s probably couple more that are affordable and quality. Just don’t fall for GMMK, Ducky and other pseudo-gaming crap. Also visit !mechanicalkeyboards@lemmy.ml and ask questions.
Not sure about your trackball problem.
If it runs QMK I would port to vial over via any day of the week, cannot stand via. Granted I need to run the app when I want to adjust the key map (and only then), but it removes the need for WebHID or any similar problems. I have been able to replace my custom mapping and macros then compiling my own custom QMK firmware and uploading it to the keyboard workflow with live editing of the map and macros.
Just here to back you up on this. All solid advice.
Bought a new keyboard a few weeks ago. Had function keys set to alternative hot keys. Only way Logitech offered to change that was to download their “options+” software. Don’t remember for sure, but the final download size was MASSIVE. The software included AI tools, but had bare minimal settings options. It added support for additional gestures on the keyboard’s track pad, but made the track pad jittery. Made the fn key switch, then uninstalled the software. The setting change didn’t stick once the utility was gone.
Returned the keyboard. So excited for the day when my shoelaces and sunglasses require an Internet connection.
Just don’t use the software lol. If it requires software to function, return it.
garbage advice lol
the software has useful features, like reconfiguring buttons on your mouse. however lately all of them got to be enshittified with a login requirement.
the real solution is to not buy their shit, or to keep buying used hardware for which decent software configurator is still available
My advice was to not buy/use it and your advice is also to not buy it lol
Just build your own keyboard. That’s what I did (and it turned out fantastic) 🤷
Mice are much easier to deal with since there’s 500 million of them to choose from. Just pick a generic, no-name brand that doesn’t need drivers and you’re all set.
Aside: Building a keyboard isn’t rocket science. It’s just a bit tedious (buy a kit). Unless you invent your own 3D printable keyboard switch and stabilizers from scratch then design an analog circuit board to work with them (also from scratch). Then it’s a bit more like rocket science 🤣
I’d like to find a small bluetooth keyboard with mechanical switches that I could use with both my.phone and my 2009 MBP running MX. I need stowable and chargeable with C.
I have time, where would I find a kit for something like that?
Just build your own keyboard.
Just build one, huh? It’s super simple and easy. Doesn’t require special tools or anything. No special skills. Surely it’s cheap too. 🙄
Not hating on building your own keyboard at all, but it’s definitely not so simple as to suggest it like “just build one” lol.
Seriously. I’m really into keyboards with QMK, but I buy prebuilt keyboards and mice that are capable of running it because if using QMK required me to solder something, I wouldn’t be able to. Soldering is a skill that most people don’t have.
What are some examples of mass produced ones (if any)? I’ve got some fancier ones but idk if there are normal ones that are easier to buy.
Handwired keyboards with a Raspberry Pi or Arduino are achievable: https://github.com/joe-scotto/scottokeebs
I’ve made 2 keyboards with kits (see my post history) and it was good fun and an easy way to get a QMK compatible custom board. Would recommend.
I use RP2040’s for all my homemade boards. Deeply satisfying, and one of the few DIY projects where you can come away feeling like you’ve got something absolutely as usable as a commercial offering.
I’m keen to make a handwired macro board, but the learning curve of programming of QMK from scratch is not something I’m prepared to deal with right now.
I use KMK, which doesn’t require compiling, but instead uses human readable Python, and now there is POG, which I’ve used on my last two and runs you through the process.
I’ve had a kit for a gherkin for years but my soldering skills suck. It might be that my iron doesn’t get to the correct temp though. I have no idea. Every time I’ve soldered stuff it feels random what’s happening. It makes me wonder if the tip is not at a consistent temperature.
https://i.redd.it/8023bd3la6n11.jpg
Clean your soldering iron tip on a sponge before every joint.
At this point the suggestions are getting pretty out there. So far I’ve heard in this thread that I should switch to Linux, download this and that code from GitHub, build my own keyboard and design a circuit board for it.
I think I’ll just take the adware.
Now they demand internet accounts to use the features of the keyboard and mouse that I purchased.
What are you talking about? Which keyboard, which mouse, which features, and which “internet accounts” are they requiring?
Also, Logitech still distributes the older software and it still works for the mice that it used to work with. My MX Vertical works with Logitech Options or the new Logi Options+ software, for example.
Did you try using that software with your new peripherals?
You can find the list by device at https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/360024361233--Software assuming this isn’t from their gaming line or something. In that case, go here instead: https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/categories/360001764393-Gaming
Not only that, have to use wide-open-to-snooping Chrome to adjust the settings. You cannot adjust/use your mouse and keyboard if you just use Firefox.
I highly doubt that the mouse and keyboard cannot be used without Chrome.
Due to security concerns, Firefox did not implement the WebSerial API that’s most likely used to configure your mouse locally. Chrome did. It’s therefore completely reasonable that you would not be able to configure your mouse from Firefox.
That API is also supported by Edge and probably by most Chromium-based browsers, like Brave, the “Ungoogled Chromium,” etc… If you have one installed and it doesn’t work, you can probably change your user agent to trick it into thinking you’re running Chrome as a workaround. Most likely they only tested with Chrome and therefore only say they support Chrome, but don’t actually use any Chrome-exclusive functionality.
This only makes sense if they are planning (or are already) tracking my every move online to sell to advertisers or spooks.
That’s a bit of a leap.
If you use Firefox for browsing and only use this Chrome to run this tool to configure your keyboard and mouse, then even with cross-site cookies and so on unblocked, none of that will be visible from the other browser. So this makes you more isolated, not less. Having it in a browser app instead of a desktop app gives you more protection, not less.
If a company can provide a browser app to do everything a desktop app could, then they can speed up development without having to use something like Electron to distribute their app. And there’s even less friction than Electron because their don’t have to check for updates / require users to install the latest version manually, because they can just always serve the most recent one from the site. As a user, you can probably install the tool locally if you want (it’s likely a PWA) but you don’t have to, meaning you get less software installed on (or worse, constantly running in the background) on your machine.
I added details to the OP
Thanks for the comment. I see no legitimate reason that I am shelled out of a program running on my computer to an interface where I have to log into a cloud service to adjust ANYTHING on my mouse or keyboard.
Build your own or buy from other mech keeb enthusiasts. Theres also probably some 60-80 dollar ones that use QMK, and using QMK is a pretty good sign the keyboard is open to you and you own it. Mice, idk I definitely have an enshittified mouse (proprietary app to setup). It’d a gravistar. 130 for a magnesium mouse was too good to pass up.
