I’ve been thinking about martial arts and how really it is useful these days since a lot of places will have criminals hiding firearms or in the U.S. some states have conceal carry.

Whilst it contains discipline and it is enjoyable to train in a club for, say Karate, I just think it might not be that useful in places where firearms are commonly held, all it really takes is for someone to take safety off, aim, pew pew and that’s it.

I suppose I probably get this thinking from kung fu where it’s seen more of an art form then actually being a serious bone breaking form of combat

  • linearchaos@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    The board breaking is just a small grift to increase your confidence. When you start out the person holding the board does most of the work to break the board. It’s several belts before the board start getting thick enough to put up a fight. All those boards are cut across the grain leaving short fibers that are able to snap.

    You are training to dodge and block, Even redirect your opponent and use their actions against them. That’s not nothing. A lot of places will tack on a little disarmament and self-defense or run a class with that is the primary goal, But honestly you don’t want to use martial arts to try to take on someone with a gun or a knife unless it is absolutely necessary because there’s a high chance you’re going to get got.

    Combat training is extremely useful, even play combat training, It puts you in a situation and has you react a certain way taking out some of the uncertainty and worry out of the situation. You start planning instead of reacting. But for the most part if somebody is threatening you with a gun or a knife you’re better off not trying to take it off of them and beat them up.

  • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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    3 months ago

    This is a difficult question.

    If you’re a bouncer, then yeah, mixed martial arts is definitely useful (e…g., something like both muay thai and Brazilian juijitsu). For a typical person that’s unlikely to ever need to defend their life, probably not.

    As far as which martial art you should take, if you’re going to take one… It depends on what you want. If you want a physical activity that doesn’t have to be practical, then take up something like kyudo, kenjutsu, or aikido. If you want something that’s practical, then look into juijitsu and things based more in grappling. If you seriously worry about getting into a confrontation with someone that’s armed, then look up Shiv Works, and see what they have in your area.

    A concealed carry permit can be useful, yes, but it’s very, very situational, and requires practice. Moreover, ever single bullet you fire outside of a range has to be accounted for.

    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      I second Cabbage. RUNNING will more reliably save your life than any amount of combat training. But also, situational awareness. Most incidents can be easily avoided simply by paying attention to what’s around you and not putting yourself in that sketchy situation to begin with.

      If you’re a bouncer, then yeah, mixed martial arts is definitely useful (e…g., something like both muay thai and Brazilian juijitsu). For a typical person that’s unlikely to ever need to defend their life, probably not.

      NO.*

      competition martial arts have rules. Rules that you abide by and train to follow. and inevetibably, training to fight inside these rules will invariably leave you open to certain kinds of attack, and to miss exploiting openings in the other guy. Yes. This includes MMA. You can tell that people in MMA follow these rules because nobody is biting the other dude’s balls off. or twisting them off, or generally kicking to the groin. (groin strikes were originally allowed, but then banned in UFC, for example. Too many crushed testes)

      and for the record, if it’s you or them… yeah. get nibbly. You also don’t see people snapping necks or stomping skulls after a toss. It’s very rare for any kind of combat sport organization to allow things that will, you know, kill their competitors.

      If you want to train for self defense… train for self defense.

      *Disclaimer: Muay Thai wasn’t always a competition thing. the OG Muay Thai will absolutely fuck an asshole up. most martial arts were originally military training, and if you can get training on THAT, yeah, that’ll be fine. in the US, you’re never gonna see that, though.

      Again. just to reiterate. You’re best off not getting in the situation, and that’s best avoided by maintaining awareness of what’s around you. You’re second-best off running the fuck away. Constructive Cowardice is nothing to be ashamed of- it will save your life. but, if it comes to it, and it’s you or them, don’t fight fair. Fair is how you die.

      • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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        3 months ago

        A bouncer isn’t usually going to be fighting to survive; they’re throwing some dude the fuck out of a venue, or subduing them until cops show up.

        As far as my comment about Shiv Works - I stand by that 100%. Look them up. They train with bare hands, knives, and guns (firing non-lethal training munitions), and in awkward spaces (such as you might experience in a car jacking).

        Any discipline that forces you to act while under pressure is going to improve your odds if you end up in a situation where fighting is your only real option. If you get sucked-punched on a subway, experience in e.g. boxing is going to be far, far better than nothing at all, despite the fact that boxing has rules. IDPA/USPSA will not, contrary to claims, get you kilt in da streets, because practice moving and shooting is better than not.

        The idea that there’s a real distinction between self-defense and martial arts in general is nonsense. If you’re good in MMA, this is going to translate almost 1:1 to self defense. Here’s the blunt truth: most of the people that are going to attack a person have a LOT of experience fighting. If you want to defend yourself, you’re going to need to give yourself a lot of the same experiences, even if it’s in a more controlled setting, and “self-defense” classes aren’t going to do that.

        And, BTW, I know a guy that teaches wu shu (Eagle Claw, I think?) that also works as a bouncer. He is very, very effective, and uses the things he teaches as a bouncer. He’s small–like, 5’5", 150#–and he punches well above his weight.

        • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          So, Road House isn’t realistic. bouncers (and security guards in general,) have already lost once they go hands on.

          And yes, you bet your ass they’re fighting to survive.

          Nobody fucks around when one mistake sends you to the ER or worse, fucking dead. Every time you go hands on, there’s always a chance some one pulls a knife or gun and ends you, maybe also everyone around you.

          By the time you’re in a fight, you’ve lost control, you’ve already lost. Bouncers and guards are generally not armed in any capacity and rely instead on soft skills to descalate, and again, reacting before it gets to that point.

          Further, that’s not self defense. the most useful self defense skill you can have is paying attention and not getting into a situation. The second most useful self defense skill is running away.

          • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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            3 months ago

            Uh. I know a whole bunch of people that have bounced at multiple clubs in Chicago. I know one guy that was loss prevention at a store in Chicago that used to love chasing people down, because he enjoys that shit.

            Tell yourself that if you want to, but the truth is that bouncers are going to have to know how to fight to at least some degree, because they’re going to end up in fights.

  • shadowedcross@sh.itjust.works
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    3 months ago

    I’m no expert, but I think basically unless it’s a one on one with someone who’s unarmed, and maybe inexperienced, it won’t help much. Every good instructor would tell you to give them what they want, or maybe run away if they only have a knife.

  • meowington1@sh.itjust.works
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    3 months ago

    Yes, it is useful because it make your body better.

    Let’s give an example: Assume you are in the shootout. You have the gun, so they are. You are quick reflect because you are trained, which make you moving and shoting better than those weeb on high.

    Another example: You hear a gun shot. You run for 2km without breaking the sweat. Because you are training to enduring and stamia daily, you can run for a while without tired.

    But I think, reflexing, enduring and stamia are most useful when you are in danger. Just act fast, and run the hell out of danger.

  • Sparkles@fedia.io
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    3 months ago

    I think it has applications, none of them involving a street fight or confrontation. I dodged a fist coming my way from a partner once. Most of the time I use it to take blows properly and redirect aggressive people with whom I work. I want to add with all of my knowledge, almost everything I know would be useless against someone much larger than me.

  • HobbitFoot @thelemmy.club
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    3 months ago

    Various militaries will train soldiers in some form of close quarters combat. All of them will say the best this training will do is buy time for someone with a weapon to come in and finish the job.

  • Ziggurat@sh.itjust.works
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    3 months ago

    Useful for what?

    As a kind of joke, look at these senior citizen doing tai chi in the park, while many 80 years old can’t walk without a cane. Looks like pretty useful.

    Judo or Aïkido will teach you how to fall, which may save you a visit to the ER if you slip on the street, and pretty useful again.

    It’s also a fun way to exercise and stay in shape, so again, it’s useful

    • LeroyJenkins@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      op mentioned the context is situations where firearms are used. so pretty sure they meant useful as a self defense method and not useful as a way of exercise

    • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
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      3 months ago

      tai chi in the park, while many 80 years old can’t walk without a cane.

      As an aside, get someone to show you what they’re really doing when they’re doing Tai Chi. The muscle memory they learn is - when sped up - brutal and painful to others. It’s great how they hide it in a dancy movement class for blue-haired park-goers.

      I’ve also met Fumio Demura at a seminar, and he comes across as just an old guy who wants to go fishing when he’s not teaching us to be damaging – so while they may look old and slow, there’s more going on.

      • skulblaka@sh.itjust.works
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        3 months ago

        Yeah people who don’t practice Tai Chi usually don’t realize that most of those movements they’re doing out there are slowed and exaggerated joint locks and throws. It is a combat training routine used as exercise.

        • Akuchimoya@startrek.website
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          3 months ago

          Let’s be honest, most people who learn Tai chi as an exercise also don’t realize that it’s joint locks and throws.

  • ℕ𝕖𝕞𝕠@slrpnk.net
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    3 months ago

    It taught me meditation and self-control. It made exercise desirable as an activity.

    But for self-defense, many martial arts do teach techniques for disarming opponents. The range within a gun loses effectiveness against a trained, unarmed opponent is actually larger than you think. Not to mention that muggers tend to avoid “harder” marks like those in good shape or who move like fighters.

    • AwkwardLookMonkeyPuppet@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      who move like fighters.

      This is a big one. People who know how to fight can pretty easily identify other people who know how to fight. Just knowing how to fight will keep you out of a lot of fights.

  • golden_zealot@lemmy.ml
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    3 months ago

    When faced with a firearm or a knife, any self respecting martial artist will tell you the one technique that will save your life.

    Running the fuck away and or taking cover.

    When it comes to hand to hand combat, understanding the dynamics of how to protect yourself and control the opposer like in Jiu Jitsu is very useful and can also potentially save your life.

    But no, if they have a weapon of any kind, get the fuck out of there.

  • DudeImMacGyver@sh.itjust.works
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    3 months ago

    Yes, absolutely! Mostly for exercise and mental health though.

    For more practical styles, look at jiu jitsu, Muay Thai, MMA, and/or krav maga. Look for a teacher who has fought professionally or otherwise has practical experience. There are a lot of bullshitters out there who will happily take your money.

    Also, keep in mind you get out of it what you put into it effort wise.

  • ContrarianTrail@lemm.ee
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    3 months ago

    With 6 months of brazilian jiujitsu training you’ll win an unexperienced person bigger than you at wrestling virtually every single time. You may still get punched in the face, stabbed or shot but if you need to go hands on with someone it absolutely is better to know BJJ / MMA / wrestling than not.

  • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
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    3 months ago

    Yes, but not for what you may think. Ritualized shouting and flailing is cathartic and great cardio. And when you’re doing it in a regular group, you don’t look as dorky (see: Line Dancing) and peer pressure will influence you to stick with it – and that’s the biggest failure mode of any workout plan.

    Also, stretching is neat. Sometimes there’s meditation. Always there’s making noise and angry faces.

    Somewhere, in there, you may learn two things: how to dodge something coming at you; and that you should always try to flee if you can, flee if you almost can, or negatively reinforce the person hurting you until they stop and then you can flee. The cardio helps with the fleeing.

    And I can’t under-state the utility in fleeing. I’ve done the hi-ya, twirled a stick, played shooty-pow-pow and rat-a-tat; and, still, fleeing is the option with the best outcome.

    • okamiueru@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      This. Anyone actually seasoned in martial arts will back this up. Exceptions to the his are trying to sell something.

  • AwkwardLookMonkeyPuppet@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    It’s incredibly useful for fitness and overall health. It’s also very useful for self defense. You will get hit way harder in the dojo than you ever will on the street, and learning to take a punch is a big part of fighting. I trained in martial arts for several years when I was younger. One time at a punk concert someone twice my size took a swing at my face, and I slipped the punch and knocked him out before I even realized I was in a fight. The training works. It’s also great for self-confidence. Lastly, guns aren’t as prevalent as you think they are.

    Edit: if you want the training to be more about actual self defense and less about fitness and art, then be sure to pick a style that focuses on combat. Jeet Kun Do, MMA school, Brazilian Jujitsu, Kick Boxing, Western Boxing, and Western Wrestling are all very applicable in real fights. Shotokan Karate is okay in most fights, and better than ground focused styles like BJJ, wrestling, or MMA, against multiple opponents, but less effective against a single opponent. Although, you should really try running first if you have to fight multiple people at once, unless you’re a badass through and through. I watched my 2nd degree Shotokan black belt friend knock 3 dudes out once in the span of about 2 seconds, but he has trained since he was like 6 years old and is a multiple time champion fighter. Most people can’t do that.