I just moved into a student dorm for a semester abroad, and beforehand I emailed them asking whether they had ethernet ports to plug my router into (I use it to connect all my devices, and for WiVRn VR streaming). They confirmed that I could, but now that I’m here the wifi login portal is asking me to accept these terms from the ISP, which forbid plugging in a router. There’s another clause that forbids “Disruptive Devices” entirely, defined as:
“Disruptive Device” means any device that prevents or interferes with our provision of the 4Wireless to other customers (such as a wireless access point such as wireless routers) or any other device used by you in breach of the Acceptable Use Policy;
So what are my options? I don’t think I can use this service without accepting the terms, but also I was told by the student dorm support that I could bring a router, which contradicts this.
EDIT: some additional context:
- dorm provider is a company separate from my uni (they have an agreement but that’s it)
- ISP (ask4) is totally separate from dorm provider, and have installed a mesh network that requires an account. On account creation, there are many upsells including one for connecting more than one device. The “free” plan only allows me to sign in on a single device, and I can upgrade to two devices for 15 pounds.
- ethernet requires login too
- VR streaming requires a high performance wifi 6 network, which is why I bought this router (Archer C6 from tp-link)
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Mine didn’t either when I lived in a dorm. I got around the network block.
- Plug Xbox 360 into ethernet wall port
- Log into uni network, get internet
- Plug router directly into pc.
- Assign router same ip as Xbox
- Spoof router mac address to match xbox
- Unplug from pc
- Quickly swap cable in wall from Xbox cable to router cable, Indiana Jones style
- Internet for 1 month. Repeat monthly.
TIL you aren’t a wireless professional until your hacks comes with a cinematic soundtrack.
You’re not a wireless professional if you use wired ethernet cables…
this gives me playstation 1 CD swap vibes
(inserting a legal cd to pass verification and then swapping it for your own cd)
It just says you can’t use things that allow you to connect more devices than agreed. Which means nothing without knowing how many devices were allowed to begin with.
Yeah that’s the thing… the max devices is one, unless I pay a fee (per device I think). This third party that manages the internet offers a bunch of upsells in the account creation for stuff like more devices.
Is this a private or for profit university?
Looks like that tos is just for the wifi network, if you’ve got an ethernet port then that won’t be using the wifi.
The ethernet connexion still requires a login/account creation/T&C acceptance sadly.
Hmm, the fact that they specifically prohibit even WAPs is going to be a problem too. Do you have the earlier conversation in writing? I’d go back to whoever you spoke to before and ask them about it.
That seems pretty standard stuff. My dorm had the same policy, because they operated their own mesh network and didn’t want students sending out their own radio signals that would have absolutely made their wireless network not work well.
Is there some reason you need your own router?
Yeah, the interference argument is fair, but I think this is also the ISP (totally separate third party) trying to protect the paid plans they sell for connecting more than one device…
trying to protect the paid plans they sell for connecting more than one device
It’s definitely 90% of the reason
In that case, just set up a router level VPN. The university probably doesn’t give a shit. Which is why the help desk IT kid said it’s fine, probably.
It’s the 3rd party ISP just being greedy. The ISP may not even care as long as you’re not running an insane amount of traffic through it. Often this type of stuff is added to TOSs to allow them the option, if you’re being a bad actor.
So it’s a network operated by a third party? That’s interesting. The handful of universities I’ve been to maintain their own.
Where I went to school, originally the dorms were on the university network but a year in they offloaded us onto regular, commercial ISPs. The change was great for us since the university network was very strict on stuff like torrents (using DPI any torrent, even legal, got you disconnected for 24h)
My university had student apartments, each had their own router. No weird rules since it wasn’t the university’s network at all, it belonged to whoever lived in the apartment. Full router access, connect whatever, put it in bridge mode and connect your own if you want.
If there’s enough space between them, it would be less of an issue. If it was in a multifamily high rise with hundreds of units, I would expect it to cause issues.
Is this a problem with 5G networks? There are more channels and they don’t go through walls as well, right?
Tl;Dr It’s complicated.
Do you mean 5Ghz networks (5G is cellular tech, after all)? If so, 5Ghz can travel through walls, but it doesn’t travel as far, because there’s an inverse relationship between range and channel width. Also, 5Ghz has a shorter wavelength; some of the signal’s light will get absorbed by the walls, but not all of it.
Ultimately, you’d still have the same problem: too many radios sharing a limited range of frequencies on a band would interfere with each other if sufficiently close.
It would be akin to having everyone playing different music at full volume on their own personal speaker; you’ll inevitably hear the people closest to you. Radios can’t “hear” anything outside of their chosen frequency (channel), but if other people nearby are also on that channel, you might catch or lose some unintended packets, triggering a resend event (TCP) or causing stuttering/lag (UDP).
The number of channels available for 5Ghz varies by country, with the EU having the most, iirc. In the US, if you try to force your router to use one of the blacklisted channels, your devices will likely not connect (unless they were directly imported), despite being able to use the 5Ghz spectrum.
Assuming they have their own wifi, they just don’t want you using wifi off of your own router. A wired connection should be fine.
Unfortunately, connecting to the ethernet port still prompts me to log into the network (make an account and accept these terms)
Accept the terms and ignore them
100% the correct answer.
And if they complain, show them your previous correspondence with them
Would that work even if the T&Cs are for a third party (the ISP), while the correspondence is with my dorm provider (not legally related to my uni, they just have a partnership)?
Probably not. But there is a good chance that they won’t notice at all. If they do, you can always take it down.
Maybe use an inconspicuous ssid? Like a similar name to a company or institute nearbyTurn off SSID broadcasting entirely. Hidden networks require more technical expertise to discover than most people have.
The ISP techs will still be able to find it, but there’s little reason for them to go looking when nothing seems out of the ordinary.
This is what I was going to recommend. Worse case scenario the internet gets shut off and he has to email somebody and say he won’t do it again. Most likely that nobody will notice or care.
Yes I did the same thing at my uni halls, said fuck paying for multi device, bought a router, named it like a phone hot-spot and never had issues.
In reality no one that works there is paid nearly enough to care about the ISP’s terms and conditions, and even if someone from the ISP comes to do maintainance or something, they won’t be there to snoop for rule breakers and even if they are, if the SSID looks like a phone hot-spot, they won’t care, and even if they do they’re not going to trace it back to you directly and even if they do, you have the email saying its okay which will shift any and all blame away from you.
So just go for it, there’s a 99.999999999999999999% chance you won’t get caught and even if you do you won’t get any blame because you asked the company.
I would just accept the terms and disable wifi, or if you don’t want to double nat just use a switch and accept the terms / login on every device connected to the switch.
You can disable your router’s wireless networking (or hide its SSID if you want to use wireless networking). It won’t be an issue if you use either way. Since your dorm told you that you could use a router; these terms wont matter.
Note that hiding its SSID won’t turn off the wireless broadcast which would be adding to the “noise” in whatever channel it’s using.
In this case you would want to turn off the wireless itself
So most dorms don’t want you using your own routers because a bunch of student routers causes A LOT of inference.
You should probably reach out not to the dorm folks but the university networking folks as they’re the ones that will ultimately make the decision on whether or not to turn things off/disconnect you.
A cheap networking switch would probably be okay by them to get some more wired connections in your dorm room (routers aren’t really a great way to do that).
That’s good advice, however this dorm is not part of my uni (just a partner to provide housing) and the internet provider whose T&C I’m expected to accept and sign up for 1y of are a totally separate legal entity, that has a bunch of upsells for stuff like “connect more than 1 device” (which my router/AP would basically be bypassing, and I think that’s what these clauses are about). About the interference, is it possible to limit it severely while still having a reliable connection just within my room? I only really want to connect:
- Laptop (wired)
- Phone
- VR for streaming from laptop
You may want to update your OP. Not being part of the University, makes a HUGE difference and will affect your options. Typically, when people say “dorms” it’s direct University provided housing.
Options in this case:
-
Just play dumb, nobody expects anyone to actually read TOS.
-
Setup a router level VPN.
-
Buy your own hotspot for Internet access. (May be cheaper to just pay for additional devices)
-
You can do a few things to reduce interference if the device broadcasting the signal supports it. Unifi APs support these settings. Most routers with WiFi probably do not support transmit power.
- Adjust transmit power to lower setting
- Higher the frequency, shorter the range (but that frequency may be highly used in the area), so #3 is the better option
- Analyze the frequency usage and picking a frequency that is least used
- If 2.4Ghz band isn’t necessary disable it and only use 5Ghz since it’s a higher frequency it again has a lower range.
- You could also faraday cage your room so the signal won’t leak out, but thats probably more work than its worth.
Ignorance is strength.
Pretend you never saw it, plug your router in, and don’t worry about it.
If they do ask questions, you just made a innocent assumption.
This is honestly quite reasonable from the university. They will be putting in a lot of work to get something set up that’s strong enough for all the students, and messing that up is kind of a dick move.
I’m with you, but how is using your own router messing that up?
On the WAN side, its just a dhcp client, just like any other laptop/xbox etc
It’s not reasonable for a ISP to dictate what CPE can be used on the network, as long as the CPE does not break the network, and routers are fairly well behaved clients by design.
Lending some anecdotal support, the wireless network of the large flagship I went to (in the time spanning the late oughts to the early 10s) operated well enough for the the time while allowing students to plug their own wireless routers into the single Ethernet port they otherwise us to split. And this was back in 802.11g days; before all the channels of 5ghz.
Students had a DC++ service running on the campus MAN, fed it by downloading Linux isos over the onion network… it wasn’t just us nerds doing it either- nearly everyone had a Wi-Fi router.
As time marches on, more rules are made, none are repealed, and student freedom and innovation is stifled. Then those growing up in relative freedom grow grumpy as they watch things enshittify for the people who won’t have known an alternative. I usually apply this thought to privacy philosophy but I see it fits here too.
Rf interference. Similar to having multiple microwaves running near your router, or those old rf based baby monitors.
Congested the 2.4 or 5gz spectrum with noise causing noise and retransmits or outright stopping the wifi from working.
If you have an old radio that does AM find a AM channel that isn’t broadcasting and bring it near your router. You can actually “hear” the noise those things are putting out.
Happily the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz bands are unlicensed and open for public use.
Nothing our OP said indicated they wanted to run WiFi, but even if they did, they could choose a less noisy channel.
Nothing in the click through agreement talked about radios, or bands.
Any body could turn their phone into a cellular hotspot, or have a starlink hotspot, and that is nobody elses business. This is no different.
Letting the network dictate what you can run in your own home is MaBell levels of authoritarianism, but more to the point, its unenforceable
But this is a dorm. A shared environment with close proximity.
If everyone had their own Wi-Fi transmitting at normal power there would be too much interference that even channel hopping wouldn’t fix it.
Not to say that there can’t be some middle ground but the Wild West attitude isn’t kosher either.
OP already mentioned that the student WiFi is being run entirely by a third party ISP and they have more expensive paid plans for more than one device.
Guaranteed this isn’t about running an optimal network (Though I’m sure if pressed about it they’ll start spouting excuses similar to yours) and all about company greed and constant profit growth.
Probably. But I didn’t want them dealing with being cut off. They can do what they want but since it’s a dorm you can be sure they’ve had these conversations before
Yeah I definitely don’t want to hurt the network for other folks staying at this (very large) dorm complex/building. Can I reasonably run it at low power (since I only need it in my room) and not have it bother anyone?
Can I reasonably run it at low power (since I only need it in my room) and not have it bother anyone?
Yes, this is one of those things that as long as you do it properly and don’t interfere with anything nothing will happen
Reduce power to minimal levels, choose a band far away from the WiFi in your area (There are a number of WiFi scanning apps on the app stores) and ensure you plug in the Ethernet from the wall into the WAN port on the router so your router can handle DHCP without interfering with University DHCP networking (though it might make getting through the captive portal tricky)
Depends on whether you can adjust the Tx level but then you run into FCC level stuff that most people avoid (since boosting it is a huge issue with interference)
Do a frequency scan, choose a 5ghz band, narrowest band you can, that isn’t being used, (don’t use 2.4ghz, 5ghz attenuates the fastest). If your router supports DFS, use a DFS channel
ok… so our friendly OP can use their router without turning on the radios and everyone is happy? let’s advise that then
Do a credit card next!
Get a no-annual fee credit card from a major bank or credit union. Keep it open, only use it once a month to keep it open, never close it, and it will help your credit rating long term.
I’m not advocating for breaking any rules, but many people know that you can hide your wifi routers SSID. even fewer people know how to track these networks.
Most commercial networks systems have the ability to detect rogue access points by analysing the radio spectrum, and hiding the SSID will not avoid detection once traffic starts flowing to it.
And they can triangulate the position of the rogue AP.
Interesting about hiding SSIDs, I never knew why that option existed. I’m here on Erasmus so I don’t want to risk too much by knowingly breaking rules… them triangulating it to my room and starting a legal case or something sounds real scary.
Also, connecting an access point that doesn’t broadcast its SSID has another side effect: all devices configured to connected to it will periodically broadcast a signal to search for that hidden AP instead, so it makes you even easier to track down anywhere else.
That’s assuming they’re actively looking. Hiding your SSID is more to prevent someone from getting suspicious and calling out the ISP.
them triangulating it to my room and starting a legal case or something sounds real scary.
It’s also incredibly unlikely unless you’re actually causing problems
If you really want wireless, do the Ethernet > Desktop/Laptop with hotspot and limit it’s TX power WAY down to minimal levels.
You should be able to use it within your dorm room fine, but will have trouble penetrating beyond the walls and will also make detecting and triangulation quite difficult
So technically I should get away with connecting the router and making an AP right? I can’t do a hotspot from my laptop because the performance is not high enough for streaming (this is why I bought a dedicated router).
In that case I would pickup a cheap USB Ethernet dongle (or 2 if the laptop doesn’t have an onboard one)
Wall > Ethernet 1 and router > Ethernet 2
Configure windows to share Ethernet 1 connection to Ethernet 2 (Builtin functionality since Windows 7 iirc)
Configure the router for minimal power to the radios, use your laptop to handle captive portal and there should be no DHCP interference concerns with the Windows laptop on the middle in this fashion
Boom done, congratulate yourself a lil for a small win over corporate greed lol
Not all that surprising. I don’t know of any network manager who’d happily allow rogue routers on their network, particularly if you still have it configured as a DHCP device and not a pass through device, which most college students do not consider and will very much disrupt campus network performance.
Why does the dhcp on the router affect the main network? I’d think that way it only needs to deal with the router, as opposed to all the devices connected to the router if it’s passthrough?
Because that router will be broadcasting DHCP signals and offering IPs, conflicting with the authorized DHCP servers on the network. This wiki article will probably explain it better. I’m not so good with the words a such.
I don’t know much about networking but that page seems to be about someone else setting up a dhcp server without the knowledge of the administrators or the users. In op’s case the concerns about mitm attacks don’t apply and the other concerns sound like problems that could arise in cases of misconfiguration or if the users aren’t aware they’re connected to a different network. I also couldn’t see anything about it affecting the main network’s performance
I mean, it’s all right there in the first two paragraphs. Keep in mind that by DHCP server we aren’t talking about something specifically set up by people with malicious intent. A home router is a DHCP server when not configured for pass through. Students who don’t know how routers actually work (we can’t all be IT nerds, lol) plug them into their dorm Ethernet jack, and now you’ve got an unauthorized device offering IP addresses that conflict with the authorized DHCP servers, which can quickly start causing issues with any new devices trying to connect to the network, and existing devices as their DHCP leases expire. Also keep in mind that we’re talking about a college network that will likely have local network resources for students like shared drives that would not be accessible to anyone connecting through the rogue device. Your IT department will quickly start getting complaints about the network that are caused by an access point you have no control over.
I see, I thought routers knew not to do dhcp on the Wan port
They do.
If you plug the dorm ethernet jack into the LAN side of a consumer router, there’s a chance they don’t.
Sure, you can catch this if you watch the dhcp leases your router is handing out, but…
Which is all well and good until you get someone who plugs both connections into the LAN ports.
Typically they do. Which is great until you get a student who doesn’t understand WAN vs LAN and plugs both connections into the LAN ports. Never underestimate the power of a Stupid User.
A consumer router only operates DHCP on the LAN side. Presumably one would plug the WAN side into the university network, making this a non-issue.
Some of my other replies address that. Worked in IT on a college campus, and every class will have at least a few clueless users who just plug the cables into the LAN ports.
Makes sense. Would that not be trivially mitigated by just blocking dhcp responses from unapproved servers on the switch though?
Should be, yes. At that point it’s a question of how well the network was configured. I’d hope this wouldn’t be much of an issue these days - I did graduate from college in 2011, and I’m sure (hopeful) campus networks have improved since my student IT job days. These days my router config experience is from the ISP side. The only private network I’m responsible for is my own, thankfully!
I went to college in the mid-late 2010s and I recall they specifically banned WiFi routers, but when I checked what they meant specifically all they cared was that it didn’t broadcast on the 2.4 or 5 ghz spectrum and if it was all wired I was fine.
Ah! I just saw you specified if it’s configured for pass through. If it is configured for pass through, then yeah it likely won’t cause issues on the network. The DHCP server is the critical bit.
From a network management perspective, though, they still won’t want these because you have to trust all these college students are going to properly configure their devices - most of them won’t know how and won’t bother figuring it out. And then you still have the issue of a bunch of unmanaged access points to your network, which is just poor security.
Yeah a simple little unmanaged switch would solve all these issues for about $20 and probably wouldn’t break the ToS.
Yeah. I think OP’s issue is they may have a few devices that are wireless only. Not sure of the best way to handle those.
Ah yeah just saw they specifically want to connect a VR headset wirelessly. I’m not real sure how to approach that either, if there’s any kind of port on the headset at all they could potentially adapt it to RJ45 but that defeats the whole point.
If a wireless connection is a must OP is just going to have to disable SSID broadcast, restrict it to certain MACs, and try to lock it down as much as possible and hope for the best. If they do it right it’ll won’t interfere with other devices and no one will ever know.
I just saw you specified if it’s configured for pass through.
I didn’t, that’s just bad grammar. Edited the comment
I’d be happy to set my device to passthrough mode, but I think the ISP prevents peer-to-peer connections (which my laptop would make to the VR headset) unless you buy one of their plans for Chromecast/smart TVs. Would that prevent it from working? And would I still be able to connect multiplw devices despite their one-device limit?
It’s hard to say without knowing all the details of how the college configures their network. Back when I was in college, I had a student job with the campus’ IT department, and students running into issues getting all their devices connected was a regular issue at the start of every year.
The main problem with most college networks is that you’ve typically got an enterprise setup that’s also having to double as home internet service for those living on campus. Depending on when the network was built it was likely only planning for students to have a laptop, maybe a desktop too, as opposed to modern times when just about every electronic device has an internet connection.
Some things just may not work like they did at home.
That’s fair yeah. In my case the dorms are a separate unrelated company from the uni (they just have a partnership) and the ISP is yet another third party that did the install and sells extras to each student. I think it’s pretty scummy since I read my whole dorm contract and it never said this would be a condition to the “free fast wifi” access.
Is there a limit to the number of devices allowed to connect that this rule is trying to enforce?
Either way, if the vr headset doesn’t need internet connection you could connect your computer to the internet wirelessly and to your own router via cable for vr.
Eww, yeah, that sounds like a crappy setup to milk more money from students with no other option - especially if you’ve got student aid requiring you to live in school housing.
You may want to see about getting your own wireless carrier internet service. Not the best solution, but at least it would be yours and unrestricted.
I’m only staying for a semester (via Erasmus, or what remains of it post-Brexit) so while I did consider this I don’t think it’s very viable.
Fair enough. My recommendation would be set the router to pass through and see if it works. Just secure the wireless network created by your AP - be a responsible network policy violator!
I don’t really have any other ideas that wouldn’t involve additional hardware, which doesn’t make much since give the short time you’ll be there.
It’s a security\legal risk to allow adhoc wireless networks within your environment, pretty much any organization above a certain size has the same restrictions.
You could theoretically allow anyone to access your router directly, which would let them bypass agreeing to the Acceptable Use Policy, for example, shifting liability back to the organization for that users behavior.
This is pretty typical for universities. They don’t want the airwaves clogged, doubling up NAT can lead to networking wonkiness, and they don’t want you giving university network access to unauthorized folks with an open AP.
When you say VR streaming, you just mean wireless from your PC to the headset, right? There’s a chance you could do that with an offline wireless router if the VR experiences you’re looking to play are single player.
Yep, that’s what I mean with VR streaming. The PC connects thru eth to the router, and the headset is connected to the router’s AP via wifi. I get the point about unauthorized access, but I set strong passwords and never share them. I think this clause is more about preventing me from connecting more than one device to the internet, which they want to charge me for if I do. Obviously having my own AP would allow me to easily circumvent that.
Add a wireless AP to your pc and create an adhoc wifi network for your vr to connect to your pc directly.
I would go wired… get a switch, run an Ethernet cable from the dorm wall to the switch then out from your switch to your PC.
That said the university is probably handling DHCP and dns… You could use a USB WiFi plug to generate a hotspot off your PC. if you wanted to run your own wifi…
But honestly the dorms WiFi with you using a VPN to a major service is probably easier everyday use wise.
Let me just say this… my college lost WiFi connectivity for about 2 months once when I was there.
The only people who had WiFi were the folks connected to the pirate wireless. Because folks were doing the wired device --> hotspot deal with their desktops.So might not hurt to be prepared.
Also… The dns settings for your device… you should set those. If you use DNS from your university… It lets them control what you can and cannot see on the net.
Yeah, that’s what I did at my previous dorm (which didn’t have a third party ISP trying to sell stuff to students). I brought that same router to this one because they told me it was fine, but now I’m faced with these T&C I didn’t know about from a third party.
There’s various contractual reasons they may say this but ultimately they probably can’t tell. Those terms and conditions don’t count for anything and can’t be enforced because no reasonable reads them. I’d just go ahead with using your router and wait for somebody to say something (feign ignorance).
I wonder if you could just use your PC to hotspot when you need to use VR.
