I’ve been transitioning to Linux recently and have been forced to use github a lot when I hadn’t much before. Here is my assessment.
Every github project is named something like dbutils, Jason’s cool photo picker, or jibbly, and was forked from an abandoned project called EHT-sh (acronym meaning unknown) originally made by frederick lumberg, forked and owned by boops_snoops and actively maintained by Xxweeb-lord69xX.
There are either 3 lines of documentation and no releases page, or a 15 page long readme with weekly releases for the last 15 years and nothing in between. It is either for linux, windows, or both. If it’s for windows, they will not specify what platforms it runs on. If it’s for Linux, there’s a 50% chance there are no releases and 2 lines of commands showing how to build it (which doesn’t work on your distro), but don’t worry because your distro has it prepackaged 1 version out of date and it magically appears on flatpak only after you’ve installed it by other means. Everything is written in python2. It is illegal to release anything for Mac OS on github.
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Interesting how we live in different bubbles ✌️
Yes the world of github and linux is vast and I am like a newborn baby. I hope to visit your bubble one day my friend.
My bubble is mostly lm, which comes in two flavors:
(1) useless repo made up entirely of jupyter notebooks and 28363 requirements achieved via pip freeze
(2) simple, friendly, well documented, runs
When I first moved to linux I felt this same way. It gets better. Now days I fucking love those 15 page ReadMes and I’m not bothered if there’s no steps for my distro. The sheer volume of documentation surrounding linux packages is insane. There’s often a ton of ways to configure and manage the to fit your needs. That freedom is what I love so much about linux.
As for the ones with 2 lines, I don’t think I’ve seen that as much. I generally would avoid them unless the source was clear what the project did.
At any rate there will come a day when it starts to click. It’s just a marathon not a sprint.
Learning to read docs is basically learning how to learn. If good docs exist and you have the skill of reading them, your life will get significantly easier.
Wait until you install some package and then scratch your head not knowing how to run it.
If I install a package, I don’t even know what it installed and/or where.
I can’t believe Linux can’t even tell you what it installed where - even Windows can do that.
Most package managers have a way to list all the files a package will install
Then think “I’ll figure it out later” but you never do. Only to be reminded of it a month later when you happen to see it scroll by in an apt-or-whatever package upgrade.
“Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I should check that thing out again” you think to yourself. But you never do. Repeat for eternity.
Devs who make the -h command actually useful are modern day saints.
I think they meant you don’t know what the binary is called because it doesn’t match the package name. I usually list the package files to see what it put in
/use/binin such cases.
Helix Editor did this to me. They have so much documentation on their site about how to use the editor, how to extend it, theme it, etc., etc. What they didn’t seem to document, though, is that the binary is named
hx, nothelix:/Dunno about that.
https://docs.helix-editor.com/install.html
Download pre-built binaries from the GitHub Releases page. Add the hx binary to your system’s $PATH to use it from the command line
Checking web.archive.org, it has mentioned the
hxbinary at least since 2021, which is the oldest version of the page it has. The usage documentation mentions thehxbinary as well. So it looks like you may have skipped over a few things.Also if you know how to use your package manager, it’s trivial to check which binary it installed. Binaries go in
/usr/bin, so just look through the file list of the package and grep for/usr/bin. That’s a pretty basic life skill on any distro.Of course, and no offense intended, wanting to use a 170MB PoSt-MoDeRn vim clone written in Rust instead of learning to use the sensible default editor that came with your system is a bit of a telltale sign of n00bness, and wanting to run before you can walk :)
Who pissed in your muesli?
I don’t know, who pissed in yours?
Congrats on expressing that in the most passive-agressive and gatekeepery way you could’ve. I’ve been using Linux for the better part of a decade now, and know my way around the
usrdir - however things work a bit different on NixOS, whose package manager doesn’t involve installation steps beyond adding the word “helix” to my packages list. I’m not great at reading though, so I absolutely would’ve missed something as obvious as the Installation page 😅 As for your beliefs about postmodern Vim clones, what’s the point (and fun) in the freedom of choice Linux offers if I can’t install and try out the latest fun spin on an old fave from time to time?Friend, and I say that unironically, I think you are attaching a lot of emotions to my post that aren’t there.
I’m not trying to gatekeep, you keep doing what you want! I’m just making an observation about new users who often jump head over heels into All The New Shiny Things and then run into snags because they lack some fundamental knowledge. And of course, you would be using NixOS 😂
The fun part is that as a dev, you don’t really know that either. It’s just the file name of the executable. Anyone can rename that.
And even if it’s not renamed, you still don’t know, if your users need to call it with justhxor with./hxor some other path.Obviously, you should mention somewhere that the executable is likely called
hx, but because that requires an explanation, there’s certainly a tendency to not mention it very often…When I’m confused like that, I check https://packages.debian.org and open the file list for the package. That way I know what binaries are installed.
Ooh, I’ll keep that in mind for next time, thanks!
Or you could just do
dpkg-query --listfiles <packagename>There is also a dpkg command for that. Grep it for /bin/ and you’ve got your executable.
You get used to how to find the right way of doing stuff. If you’re still in the Windows biased search results space, everything FOSS is made to look sketchy. Those search results are not deterministic. That bias is intentional. Eventually Microsoft stops biasing you or bribing Google to do the same and your search results will be better. Then you stop using the search results all together for the most part. You’ll figure out that the ways you did things in the past were inefficient and usually wrong. There are better ways that you’ll discover and those repos are self hosted or on gitlab or elsewhere. You eventually just use RPM fusion, or you setup distrobox with Arch and the AUR, or you toss on the Nix package manager and start using flakes. The vast majority of my initial headaches were due to trying to replicate Windows workflows. Then I learned all of that was weird and pretty backwards.
Guy, nobody is making FoSS pages and documentation hard to find or read. The developers take care of that themselves. You’ve invented a story that had no basis in reality. At least the other posters admit it’s lack of time and some overworked dude in his basement.
wait, does apple let users access github?
Yes, why would they block a website?
Well, they have blocked a mobile phones connection when you held it in your hand sooooo
Antennagate happened 14 years ago. A lot users are too young to remember that
I have never heard of that before
Iphone 4 had a shitty antenna design. This was the first iphone with a metal frame around, on the sides of the phone. If you holded it with your left hand you could easily accidentally short the two parts of the antenna, basically cutting all signals.
This was definetily a design fault, there was even class action lawsuit against Apple. When they asked Steve Jobs about this, he replied:
“You are holding it wrong.”
It’s a joke
your distro has it prepackaged 1 version out of date
found the ubuntu user :D
Close, but not quite!
debian?
Right, so Ubuntu
your distro has it prepackaged 1 version out of date
And the only reason you wanted to install the thing is because it’s a prerequisite for some other thing you wanted to install, which requires the latest version.
God, I hate that.
Then you do a clean up day and start removing shit you don’t know what is or even use. Then a few weeks later something doesn’t work and you don’t know why, but it was probably something you removed, so you go through the entire git journey again, throwing and taking the exact same punches to get things running.
The story of yt-dlp and ffmpeg on my raspberry pi.
Just a small (or maybe big?) tip for you 🙂
If it’s for Linux, there’s a 50% chance there are no releases and 2 lines of commands showing how to build it (which doesn’t work on your distro), but don’t worry because your distro has it prepackaged 1 version out of date
There’s a tool called Distrobox.
You can install it (via CLI I think?), and then manage it the easiest graphically way via BoxBuddy (available in your Software Center), or just the terminal if you prefer it.With it, you can screw all those “Doesn’t work on my distro” moments.
You’re on Linux Mint? No problems, here’s the AUR for you!
✨✨✨ BONUS: Your OS won’t break anymore randomly due to some AUR incompatibility, because everything is containerized! ✨✨✨
Even if you run Arch, use it to install AUR stuff. Or Debian/ Ubuntu, add PPAs only via Distrobox.
It’s absolutely no virtual machine. It basically only creates a small, lightweight container with all dependencies, but it runs on your host. Similar to Flatpaks.
You can also export the software, and then it’s just like you would have installed it natively!
Your distro choice doesn’t matter anymore. You now can run any software written only for Suse, an abandoned Debian version 10 years ago, Arch, Fedora, Void, whatever. It’s all the same.I hope that was helpful :)
Oh cool, I’ll have to check it out! Thanks!
That’s great, but it should still be possible and well documented for people to run things natively. Some people want less bloat for technical reasons (maintaining a product with very little storage or memory). Tinycore Linux is my go-to example of the benefit of keeping things lightweight for a purpose.
When you’re maintaining a product that is based on linux, you’re surely qualified to port that thing to your platform yourself.
Open source developers are thanklessly giving away their work for free already, and for the many things where there’s just a github page it is just a one man show run in spare time. Don’t demand them to give away even more of their time to cater for whatever distro you’re using, just because you are not willing to invest the time to learn how linux works and also not willing to give a way a few megabytes for the dependencies they’re developing against.
All the discussions about things like distrobox and flatpak where linux novices express their dissatisfaction due to increased disk space are laughable. In the linux universe sole users have no power in deciding what goes, they do not pay anything and at worst pollute the bug tracker. Developers are what make up the linux universe, and what appeals to them is what is going to happen. Flatpak is a much more pleasant experience to develop for than a gazillion distros, hence this is where it is going, end of story. As a user either be happy with wherever the linux rollercoaster goes, or - if you want to see change- step up and contribute.
Why Linux will never be mainstream ^
No… It’s the users that are wrong and stupid.
Next time, try to engage rationally and in good faith with the commenter you are responding to :)
I did. Linux zealots can’t handle the truth about regular users and they mostly do not and will not accommodate them. This conversation has been going on 40 years now.
Did you forget the part where everybody is getting it for free and devs aren’t getting paid to do this shit? If you want your hand held, use Windows or MacOS.
Status quo it is.
Each to their own. Linux is, in my opinion, about choice. If one prefers everything to be ultra minimalist, native and lightweight, then that’s fine.
I personally just find to be Linux’ most overlooked strength is containerization. It’s one of the main reasons why most servers run Linux, because of things like Docker. On the desktop, containers are way underutilized, but that’s now slowly changing with things like Flatpak or Distrobox.
A distrobox container is technically more bloated than a native install, sure, that’s correct.
But, in my opinion, it’s like saying “Drawers and closets are bloat for my apartment. I throw everything on the floor.” Yeah, now you have less things in your room, but it looks like shit, you can’t find anything and you fall over your tubberware that’s mixed with your underwear and shampoo.
Having everything collected in a container only costs me a few hundred MBs and a small amount of RAM if needed. But, literally every PC has more than 50 GB hard drive space and 8 GB RAM. If your system slows down because of one container, then your PC is the problem, not distrobox.
That absolutely doesn’t mean we should stop optimizing software of efficiency. But it can help us to spend our time on more important stuff, like fixing bugs or adding new cool features.
I really love Flatpak because of that. Sure, it has some drawbacks, but as soon as more devs support Flatpak officially, and iron out some issues we currently have, like misconfigured permissions, they’re (imo) the best package format. Why should a distro maintainer have to apply every software change to their package format? That’s needlessly duplicated work.
I release a lot of my software in GitHub and I’m offended at how accurate this is.
What’s your bubble of interests? I mean I’ve seen Github projects where that description fits very VERY well. Usually when I’m attending to some very niche hobbies. Or try to get some exotic electronics from 20 years ago running again… With the everyday tools it’s most of the times some active community and I copy and paste the 3 commands and I have it installed successfully.
If your distro was arch, you most likely have the nightly build available on the AUR
Really love arch and the AUR. I’ve been tempted to get nix set up for the rare cases when there’s no AUR package or the AUR package is unmaintained. I figure if there’s no package in the AUR or nixpkgs, it’s probably not worth running.
I yet hope to find a unmaintained arch package to have a reason to write my own PKGBUILD file😁
Aur and pacman are 90% of why I use arch.
Also fyi to OP: never install software system-wide without your package manager. No
sudo make install, nocurl .. | sudo bashor whatever the readme calls for. Not because it’s unsafe, but because eventually you’re likely to end up with a broken system, and then you’ll blame your distro for it, or just Linux in general.My desktop install is about a decade old now, and never broke because I only ever use the package manager.
Of course in your home folder anything goes.
never install software system-wide without your package manager.
What’s the alternative of
sudo make installandcurl | sudo bashif a package is not available in AUR? I am unfamiliar withmake install.Well personally if a package is not on aur I first check if there’s an appimage available, or if there’s a flatpak. If neither exist, I generally make a package for myself.
It sounds intimidating, but for most software the package description is just gonna be a single file of maybe 10-15 lines. It’s a useful skill to learn and there’s lots of tutorials explaining how to get into it, as well as the arch wiki serving as documentation. Not to mention, every aur or arch package can be looked at as an example, just click the “view PKGBUILD” link on the side on the package view. You can even simply download an existing package with git clone and just change some bits.
Alternatively you can just make it locally and use it like that, i.e. just run make without install.
Also fyi to OP: never install software system-wide without your package manager. No
sudo make install, nocurl .. | sudo bashor whatever the readme calls for.And that is why Linux isn’t ready for mass adoption.
I had to fuck around for hours to make my wifi adapter work and everyone was referencing this one project on GitHub and the way to install it and what actually worked was to sudo make install.
You’re the first person I see that’s saying not to do that, I had to use instructions from the Linux Mint forum to try and get it installed the first time and no one mentioned that, I found alternative projects but none of them had clear instructions “You must have installed X, Y, Z first” without any explanation how to do it.
So, for new users, Linux is all about blind trust in strangers to make stuff work and if you have no interest in learning programming that’s what your experience will continue to be.
I guess you had to install lwfinger’s rtw88 backport? If true, then the problem was the outdated kernel used in mint (I guess 1.15.y at the time) should work now out of box with the new kernel update ubuntu (and therefore mint as downstream as well) released some months ago.
I think, it is 6.2.y now and in 6.2 rtw88 got a massive update.
I’m running Mint 22 (the one that just came out) so the kernel shouldn’t have been an issue and it worked with Bazzite (but I had GPU issue with that distro) 🤷
Absolutely. Funky installs go in ~/bin. (Ok, plus the valve directory)
Everything else comes from standard repositories.
How the fuck do you have a decade old arch installation? I have to reinstall it about every half a year because something breaks and its to complicated to fix it so I just choose to reinstall everything. In the 18 Months or so that I used Arch I had to reinstall it about 4 times. I don’t even install that much stuff and I also don’t go absolutely wild with configuration, but Theres A lot of stuff breaking in my system.
I also got used to just ignoring problems because I’m to lazy to reinstall everything or spend hours upon hours fixing my system.
Thanks for reminding me of my nearly forgotten Gentoo PTSD
Everyone on Lemmy: “Just use Arch! Why are you using anything but Arch! Arch is the best! Arch is better than everything else!”
Also Lemmy users: ∆
Me: So my Ubuntu Server, which has been the same install for well over 10 years, hasn’t needed a reinstall ever… even through corrupted RAM, multiple hardware changes, and drive upgrades, I’ve just cloned it and kept on trucking…
…and yet everyone says Ubuntu is the worst…
😁I prefer yay to search and install stuff from AUR using a single command 🥰 and if you choose the endeavour flavour of arch, then you have yay preinstalled 😋👌🏻
How did you describe my repositories so perfectly?
While I do see most of the listed stuff happened to me before, they only appear once in a while and it’s often just one sentence in the list is true. I think OP is trying to make an exaggerating slander where it’s extremely unlucky to have more than 5 sentences is right
Learn to read code (git gud) /s but it’s the only way to be sure (nuke from orbit)
Or, look at the stars…
Or, look at the stars…
Today my horoscope tells me to not use github in particular and avoid compiling any code in general.
That’s what I’ve been trying to tell my boss for the last 6 months…
