Man you got such a weird hard on for this stance where you keep repeating the same thing over and over without actually providing a valuable argument.
So just in case you are not a bot and actually want the argument explained, here you go:
I want to watch movie A produced by Disney. As you say I have a ton of arguments to not support Disney. So I don’t pay to watch the movie. Now there’s two options left, I never watch the movie or I pirate the movie and watch it. By not watching it the only one that suffers is me, Disney couldn’t give two shits if I watch it or not. By pirating the movie I get the two things I want, to watch the movie and to not support Disney.
By pirating the movie to watch it I am not impeding anyone’s ability to watch it by paying Disney. I’m not taking anyone’s movie, no one loses anything, except Disney who loses the money they want me to pay. All those who participated in making the movie are not losing their salaries, they were already paid for the work by Disney, I’m not stealing their salaries (unless they had a contract with Disney to get some % but I can’t pay them without paying Disney)
Now let’s say I’m a parent, my kids want to watch movie A of Disney, but I don’t want to support Disney, do I punish Disney or do I punish my kids by not watching the movie? Or do I pirate the movie for my kids and still don’t support Disney’s shitty corporate behaviour?
Let’s see if you still don’t see the argument for piracy ffs
Movies are products. Movies are investments in future movies. Yesterdays movie pays the employees that produce todays movie.
Time is money and money is time. So if you invest your time you should also invest your money. If you don’t do that you actively contribute to either artists getting payed less, movies getting worse by being funded less, or streaming services deteriorating even more. You are hurting the people that obtain the movies legally. Basic economics.
Besides, you mention Disney streaming. There are countless other ways to legally enjoy a movie. I don’t understand why everyone here thinks streaming is the only way.
If your kids want to watch a disney movie they spend their time enjoying it. You need to compensate whoever is providing for that. If they enjoy their time in Disneyland they also need to pay the ticket, eventhough the rides will work without them paying for the ticket.
There is a ton of arguments against supporting these shitty corps milking their customers. However, there is no argument for piracy.
How do you propose to stop supporting Disney? Without eventually hurting the employees of Disney?
Streaming or buying a blueray or paying for a movie ticket (which is prohibitively expensive and can only be done in some occasions when I know I will enjoy it and then they fill you up in ads), it won’t matter, it all supports Disney and their shitty behaviour. I love buying my favourite movies and shows but I don’t want to buy all the movies and shows I want to watch, that’s why streaming is so much better in many ways and set as the main example. Even movies I bought in BR I will end up downloading for the comfort of watching them, I want to watch them on whatever screen I want wherever I want, not when I have a blue ray reader.
And others have already told you, sometimes there’s no legal way to enjoy some content, if some company doesn’t want me to get something, why would I listen to them and not find my own way?
The fact that it all works for you doesn’t mean others don’t want it in a different way.
If your kids want to watch a disney movie they spend their time enjoying it. You need to compensate whoever is providing for that. If they enjoy their time in Disneyland they also need to pay the ticket, eventhough the rides will work without them paying for the ticket.
No, I don’t need to do anything, they don’t set the rules. If my kids enjoy watching a movie but Disney won’t allow them to watch it without first swallowing 30 minutes of ads selling them other stuff you bet your own ass I will find a way to allow them to watch the movie without whatever random shit a corporation comes up with. I want to compensate the workers but I don’t. I pay Disney and they choose how employees are paid. And I won’t do whatever they say just because they “own” the movie. Should I still compensate the employees of Disney and the corporation for I don’t know, watching Fantasia done over 80 years ago? Stop sucking the corporations ass. They are abusing everyone, including their own employees.
If you say we have reasons to stop supporting Disney then you are saying either no one can watch their content or we can watch it the only way it hurts them. There’s no middle ground.
The argument for piracy is quite simple: conscience and morality.
The masses simply don’t care if a few pirates can’t reconcile it with their conscience that the respective provider acts like a piece of shit and treats its customers like shit under their shoe. Those providers just have to make sure that there aren’t too many pirates and therefore scrape the shit off the sides of their shoes from time to time.
All the other arguments are tangible. But they are often already essentially solved.
When you pirate a movie… no one loses anything. It’s also hard to steal from a store when they don’t stock the product in the first place. Your logic is flawed.
When those services are the only place with a license to provide the content you want, and your choice is to either suck it up and deal with their enshittification, or pirate the media you want… guess which option is the preferred choice?
My 300+ discs collection is akready 10 years old. No disc has failed yet. Most modern Blue-ray discs have a lifespan of up to 150 years. You’re probably thinking of writable discs that have a lower lifespan.
A digital backup of my own discs that I’ve purchased is not piracy in many countries. It’s legal to do that for personal use. Besides, there is no moral argument against it. You already payed for your time you’re going to enjoy it.
Perhaps not a popular approach, but I will simply watch less or not at all (mainly due to ads). There are other ways to entertain yourself. Throw away your TV!
They are not the only place. There are thousands of ways to legally obtain the content you want to enjoy. Blue-ray is one of countless others.
Not paying anything is worse in any case. The content and services will get even worse over time if more people start pirating stuff. The only way to change that is to vote with your wallet. Not paying does not entitle you to have an opinion and complain.
I wish there were. I have a huge DVD collection (2000+), and yet now it’s borderline impossible for me to find a DVD/Blueray for the stuff I want. Shops have shelves with maybe 100 blockbusters at most. It’s also impossible to buy the single product online, you can “rent” it, but you can’t buy it in a way that you can watch it with whatever device I want, with whatever tool I choose and without an internet connection.
This is my main beef with streaming services, you are permanently renting and therefore depending on the whim of the distributor (which in 90% of the cases now is also the maker).
Ah the false implication that if we don’t pay then things won’t get done. That’s a fallacy. People will always make content, they only stop if they need to work to survive and have no time. If they are paid for creating, they will create even more. If they are paid to create what they are told they won’t be able to create what they would want to.
When content is controlled and a company has the right to decide what and when and how something is created that’s when content and services get worse over time. Disney is a huge money making machine based on monopolistically controlling content, stories, characters… Disney’s services and products will only get worse no matter who pays or doesn’t, despite the love and effort put by the workers, because decisions are made based on corporate greed and maximising revenue. No one but Disney can create a marvel movie, if I would, I’d get sued into oblivion.
Netflix produced a movie called Hush. They made it and it was only distributed on Netflix. They removed it a while back, now the only way to watch it is to pirate it.
The only remaining question is if one requires an argument to steal in this context. I am fine with this theft and require no justification to sleep well.
"Commander Lock : Dammit, Morpheus. Not everyone believes what you believe.
I don’t know. I like the clarity of your view, but the world theft has implicit the idea that you having it makes someone else not have it.
Theft is wrong even by poor people, because what you steal might reduce availability to other poor people. But piracy is “theft lite”, in the sense that when people without disposable income do it, nobody loses anything. Maybe the creator will even gain a little free notoriety.
No. Almost all industries nowadays rely on IP. Nobody is manufacturing in Europe or US anymore. The most lucrative business of scale rely on software, logistics and other IP.
Most people who do piracy don’t understand how their job also depends on IP in one way or the other. Their idealostic world view is incoherent. If you do privacy at least own up to it. You’re copying someone else’s work and there is no moral argument to do that in a non-socialist world.
That’s how culture works and has worked since humans have been human, you damn lunatic.
Copying and retelling and sharing each other’s stories and works is what makes us human and differentiates us from other animals, you monstrously ignorant tool.
There was a time when the same could be said about slavery. People’s lives depended on slavery and they couldn’t imagine an economy without it and yet here we are.
No one should own a person and no one should own an idea.
Typically it’s the fruits of distributing someone else’s artistic labor that are stolen not paid. The artists are under contract with the producers/distributors, so they get paid regardless (if we’re talking RIAA/MPAA/record labels/movie studios).
Making a copy of something isn’t the same as stealing it. Making a copy of something and trying to pass it off as your own work is fraud, but that’s outside the scope of digital piracy. “Theft” requires that the stolen item is no longer in the possession of the original owner.
There is a ton of arguments against supporting these shitty corps milking their customers. However, there is no argument for piracy.
Man you got such a weird hard on for this stance where you keep repeating the same thing over and over without actually providing a valuable argument.
So just in case you are not a bot and actually want the argument explained, here you go:
I want to watch movie A produced by Disney. As you say I have a ton of arguments to not support Disney. So I don’t pay to watch the movie. Now there’s two options left, I never watch the movie or I pirate the movie and watch it. By not watching it the only one that suffers is me, Disney couldn’t give two shits if I watch it or not. By pirating the movie I get the two things I want, to watch the movie and to not support Disney.
By pirating the movie to watch it I am not impeding anyone’s ability to watch it by paying Disney. I’m not taking anyone’s movie, no one loses anything, except Disney who loses the money they want me to pay. All those who participated in making the movie are not losing their salaries, they were already paid for the work by Disney, I’m not stealing their salaries (unless they had a contract with Disney to get some % but I can’t pay them without paying Disney)
Now let’s say I’m a parent, my kids want to watch movie A of Disney, but I don’t want to support Disney, do I punish Disney or do I punish my kids by not watching the movie? Or do I pirate the movie for my kids and still don’t support Disney’s shitty corporate behaviour?
Let’s see if you still don’t see the argument for piracy ffs
The mental gymnastics in this.
Movies are products. Movies are investments in future movies. Yesterdays movie pays the employees that produce todays movie.
Time is money and money is time. So if you invest your time you should also invest your money. If you don’t do that you actively contribute to either artists getting payed less, movies getting worse by being funded less, or streaming services deteriorating even more. You are hurting the people that obtain the movies legally. Basic economics.
Besides, you mention Disney streaming. There are countless other ways to legally enjoy a movie. I don’t understand why everyone here thinks streaming is the only way.
If your kids want to watch a disney movie they spend their time enjoying it. You need to compensate whoever is providing for that. If they enjoy their time in Disneyland they also need to pay the ticket, eventhough the rides will work without them paying for the ticket.
The only mental gymnastics are yours.
How do you propose to stop supporting Disney? Without eventually hurting the employees of Disney?
Streaming or buying a blueray or paying for a movie ticket (which is prohibitively expensive and can only be done in some occasions when I know I will enjoy it and then they fill you up in ads), it won’t matter, it all supports Disney and their shitty behaviour. I love buying my favourite movies and shows but I don’t want to buy all the movies and shows I want to watch, that’s why streaming is so much better in many ways and set as the main example. Even movies I bought in BR I will end up downloading for the comfort of watching them, I want to watch them on whatever screen I want wherever I want, not when I have a blue ray reader.
And others have already told you, sometimes there’s no legal way to enjoy some content, if some company doesn’t want me to get something, why would I listen to them and not find my own way?
The fact that it all works for you doesn’t mean others don’t want it in a different way.
No, I don’t need to do anything, they don’t set the rules. If my kids enjoy watching a movie but Disney won’t allow them to watch it without first swallowing 30 minutes of ads selling them other stuff you bet your own ass I will find a way to allow them to watch the movie without whatever random shit a corporation comes up with. I want to compensate the workers but I don’t. I pay Disney and they choose how employees are paid. And I won’t do whatever they say just because they “own” the movie. Should I still compensate the employees of Disney and the corporation for I don’t know, watching Fantasia done over 80 years ago? Stop sucking the corporations ass. They are abusing everyone, including their own employees.
If you say we have reasons to stop supporting Disney then you are saying either no one can watch their content or we can watch it the only way it hurts them. There’s no middle ground.
You’ll be the one who runs the movie industry into the ground. It’s not going to be Disney. It’s going to be piracy.
If you don’t vote with your wallet and you don’t support good movies over bad movies, you’re helping nobody except yourself.
Funny, I hear nothing but arguments for it.
There are tons of arguments for piracy, the simplest ones being region locks, deplatformed episodes, and censorships.
These are all arguments against the corresponding service. I don’t hear an argument for piracy.
The argument for piracy is quite simple: conscience and morality.
The masses simply don’t care if a few pirates can’t reconcile it with their conscience that the respective provider acts like a piece of shit and treats its customers like shit under their shoe. Those providers just have to make sure that there aren’t too many pirates and therefore scrape the shit off the sides of their shoes from time to time.
All the other arguments are tangible. But they are often already essentially solved.
Sometimes we don’t hear something, not because it doesn’t exist… but because we choose to deny its existence.
Just because you don’t believe its there doesn’t mean it isn’t.
It’s not about belief. It’s just pure logic in argumentation. There is just no conclusion here.
It’s like robbing a store because you didn’t like its shelf layout.
All of the arguments I read here are justifications. Nobody is actually trying to make a point here. They just want to enjoy free content.
When you rob a store, the store loses something.
When you pirate a movie… no one loses anything. It’s also hard to steal from a store when they don’t stock the product in the first place. Your logic is flawed.
When those services are the only place with a license to provide the content you want, and your choice is to either suck it up and deal with their enshittification, or pirate the media you want… guess which option is the preferred choice?
Don’t forget about media you already bought being limited, deauthenticated, or removed completely.
By 10 year old blue-ray collection is doing just fine.
Blu-ray disks might last from 5 to 20 years, depending on quality. You’d better start backing them up if you care about your collection.
Oh, wait… that also counts as piracy, apparently. Tough luck, I suppose. 🤷♂️
My 300+ discs collection is akready 10 years old. No disc has failed yet. Most modern Blue-ray discs have a lifespan of up to 150 years. You’re probably thinking of writable discs that have a lower lifespan.
A digital backup of my own discs that I’ve purchased is not piracy in many countries. It’s legal to do that for personal use. Besides, there is no moral argument against it. You already payed for your time you’re going to enjoy it.
So buying one ticket to Disney world means I get to go back whenever I want right?
Do you not realize you just gave a justification for piracy?
Do you care about moral reasoning or just what is legal where you currently are?
Perhaps not a popular approach, but I will simply watch less or not at all (mainly due to ads). There are other ways to entertain yourself. Throw away your TV!
Torrents have no ads. And better quality. And are easier to find, watch, download, and archive. Much more convenient in every way.
Haven’t watched TV in over a decade either. Or seen an ad. Still watch any show or movie I want to.
As Gabe Newell put it (and demonstrated with Steam), piracy is a service problem.
They are not the only place. There are thousands of ways to legally obtain the content you want to enjoy. Blue-ray is one of countless others.
Not paying anything is worse in any case. The content and services will get even worse over time if more people start pirating stuff. The only way to change that is to vote with your wallet. Not paying does not entitle you to have an opinion and complain.
I wish there were. I have a huge DVD collection (2000+), and yet now it’s borderline impossible for me to find a DVD/Blueray for the stuff I want. Shops have shelves with maybe 100 blockbusters at most. It’s also impossible to buy the single product online, you can “rent” it, but you can’t buy it in a way that you can watch it with whatever device I want, with whatever tool I choose and without an internet connection.
This is my main beef with streaming services, you are permanently renting and therefore depending on the whim of the distributor (which in 90% of the cases now is also the maker).
You can find Blue-rays to buy online of pretty much every movie in existance. 99% of them have all the extras too like documentation and interviews.
It depends on location. Getting a disc shipped from the other side of the world, paying 20 bucks + shipping for each movie in not sustainable.
Not everything is on physical media.
No, free will entitles that.
Ah the false implication that if we don’t pay then things won’t get done. That’s a fallacy. People will always make content, they only stop if they need to work to survive and have no time. If they are paid for creating, they will create even more. If they are paid to create what they are told they won’t be able to create what they would want to.
When content is controlled and a company has the right to decide what and when and how something is created that’s when content and services get worse over time. Disney is a huge money making machine based on monopolistically controlling content, stories, characters… Disney’s services and products will only get worse no matter who pays or doesn’t, despite the love and effort put by the workers, because decisions are made based on corporate greed and maximising revenue. No one but Disney can create a marvel movie, if I would, I’d get sued into oblivion.
Netflix produced a movie called Hush. They made it and it was only distributed on Netflix. They removed it a while back, now the only way to watch it is to pirate it.
These are all arguments against the corresponding service. I don’t hear an argument for piracy.
You can’t just say thats not a reason. That is the reason they pirated a movie.
I was just trying to be funny with that response because the other guy, the one I copied from, was being so unreasonable.
I sure as hell don’t feel bad pirating things when I literally have no way of getting it legally.
Piracy is theft. Period.
The only remaining question is if one requires an argument to steal in this context. I am fine with this theft and require no justification to sleep well.
"Commander Lock : Dammit, Morpheus. Not everyone believes what you believe.
Morpheus : My beliefs do not require them to."
I don’t know. I like the clarity of your view, but the world theft has implicit the idea that you having it makes someone else not have it.
Theft is wrong even by poor people, because what you steal might reduce availability to other poor people. But piracy is “theft lite”, in the sense that when people without disposable income do it, nobody loses anything. Maybe the creator will even gain a little free notoriety.
People who are actually right never have to say “period” at the end. Just FYI.
Um… what exactly is being stolen?
Their sense of pride and accomplishment?
The fruits of artistic labour.
Ask any artist if they’d rather their work not be enjoyed at all, or enjoyed for free.
The only industry whose profits need to be guaranteed by laws.
No. Almost all industries nowadays rely on IP. Nobody is manufacturing in Europe or US anymore. The most lucrative business of scale rely on software, logistics and other IP.
Most people who do piracy don’t understand how their job also depends on IP in one way or the other. Their idealostic world view is incoherent. If you do privacy at least own up to it. You’re copying someone else’s work and there is no moral argument to do that in a non-socialist world.
That’s how culture works and has worked since humans have been human, you damn lunatic.
Copying and retelling and sharing each other’s stories and works is what makes us human and differentiates us from other animals, you monstrously ignorant tool.
There was a time when the same could be said about slavery. People’s lives depended on slavery and they couldn’t imagine an economy without it and yet here we are.
No one should own a person and no one should own an idea.
Typically it’s the fruits of distributing someone else’s artistic labor that are
stolennot paid. The artists are under contract with the producers/distributors, so they get paid regardless (if we’re talking RIAA/MPAA/record labels/movie studios).Making a copy of something isn’t the same as stealing it. Making a copy of something and trying to pass it off as your own work is fraud, but that’s outside the scope of digital piracy. “Theft” requires that the stolen item is no longer in the possession of the original owner.
Here you go:
Neal Gaiman on copyright piracy and the web.
Yeah, that’s exactly it. That was my point: It’s better to be enjoyed for free than not at all.
Plenty of arguments for piracy.
Enlighten me! Try not to mention how shitty the other options are and how much you hate the big corps. Because that’s irrelevant for the answer.
some people are just flat out broke and they harm nobody.