Not sayin nothin, but you might want to look at Matrix Conduit. you won’t want to keep it open, but it’s much easier to set up and it uses a tiny amount of the resources. Synapse kills the server I’m running both conduit and lotide on just fine.
Legit, I run Synapse, the registration shared secret is just a random string you supply and add it to the home server ymal
Then you use that string to create users by API.
Idonno, felt straight forward to me
Who is ymal?
Ymal Markup Ain’t Language
A dude who’s very picky about whitespace.
Didn’t he just win the Euros at 17
the documentation is just missing clearly stating that fact, though from what i recall i think that might be said in the config file?
Dearest ChatGPT, What the fuck is a shared secret?
It’s the thing you only tell your “ride-or-die bitch” server.
As an LLM, I don’t truly understand the notion of sharing, but I can point you to a few resources that may help you understand more. It’s important to remember that human interaction is complex and varied, and different people will have different opinions.
Here are some ideas to get you started.
- “Sharing is Caring”. “Sharing is Caring” is a popular phrase to explain the meaning of sharing. If you really care about your secret, that way you are sharing it with the loved ones in your life.
- Valuable things, such as companies, are often divided into shares. If you divide your secret and sell parts of it to different people on the internet, it becomes a shared secret.
- “A problem shared is a problem halved.” This is another popular phrase, showing that if you halve your secret, i.e. make it smaller, or less secret, then you are sharing it.
Overall, humans value both secrets and sharing as a way to build and strengthen community. A shared secret is the ultimate expression of humanity in community.
I hope that answers your question. If there’s anything else I can help you with, please let me know.
AI couldn’t even bullshit as good as this and that’s all it’s for.
An application password, basically
Yeah the documentation (if it even exists) of most projects is usually clearly written by people intimately familiar with the project and then never reviewed to make sure it makes sense for people unfamiliar with it. But writing good detailed documentation is also really hard, especially for a specialist because many nontrivial things are trivial to them and they believe what they’re writing is thorough and well explained even though it actually isn’t.
Reminds me of the time I asked a question about a Magic: The Gathering card tomy local game store’s Facebook page. The card was Sublime Archangel. I asked what happened if it gave a creature Exalted that already had one. Someone sarcastically replied that it already says it on the card. I was a new player, how was I supposed to parse the phrase “If a creature has multiple instances of exalted, each triggers separately”? For all I knew that could mean that they didn’t stack because they would need to trigger together. I didn’t have the vocabulary to understand those things.
I try to remember this when explaining what I might believe are simple concepts to people because that person really upset me.
100% Agree, it feels like most documentation is written in a way that expects you to already know what it’s talking about… When it’s the documentation’s job to teach me about it.
“set all environment variables”
More recently its go to discord for the env…no joke.
Exclusively using Discord as a support channel should get you banned from the internet
My face actually dropped when I read this. I will be so mad if I ever encounter this live.
It sucks…and seems to be catching on. Ive seen a quite a few on GitHub that are now referencing using it instead of the issue tracker.
That is so depressing. Literally a markdown file in the repo would be a better issue tracker.
Don’t forget to run your shell over Discord!
This is cursed, but also cool. Hijack another platform for your authentication
I don’t think it’s (just) that. It’s also a different skill set to write documentation than code, and generally in these kind of open source projects, the people who write the code end up writing the documentation. Even in some commercial projects, the engineers end up writing the docs, because the higher ups don’t see that they’re different skill sets.
That’s just sloppiness.
The information that familiarity gives you is “WTF does this field means”, and it’s the only thing that’s actually there. How you get a value and how a value is formatted are things no amount of expertise will save you from having to tell the computer, and thus you can’t just forget about.
(And let me guess, the software recommended install is a docker image?)
This is why I did a “walkthrough test” when I had to write documentation on this sort of thing. I’m a terrible technical writer, so this shit is necessary for me.
I grabbed my friend who knows enough about computers to attempt this, but not enough about infrastructure to automatically know what I meant when I was too vague.
Took two revisions, but the final document was way easier to follow at the end
Bold of you to assume I know how to read!
That’s why blog posts rock. Most popular projects will have a dozen blog posts for different configurations. For example, when looking to set up NextCloud, I found docs for almost all combinations of the following:
- Apache and Nginx configuration
- running through Docker or directly on the host
- MariaDB and Postgres configs (and SQLite, with proper disclaimers)
- Collabora and OnlyOffice config
It does take some knowledge of each of the above if you need one of the few configs that’s not available on a blog post, and some of the posts are outdated, but with a bit of searching almost everything is documented by someone on the internet.
This shouldn’t be necessary (official docs should be more comprehensive), but at least it’s available.
Okay, please point me to the blog posts that helped you with collabora/onlyoffice. Thanks have NEVER been able to get that to work with my nextcloud (currently using the Docker AIO).
Same with me. I played around with the setup a few times on my local machines. It took quite a bit to get it set up, then I saw an error after a couple of days and gave up. Its easier to just pull down the file and run it locally than use collabora.
I’d rather have a great documentation than five different blog posts, where some of them might be outdated, wrong or insecure (and you only find out later).
But yes, they are helpful and easily available for popular software.
This is why Technical Writer is a full time job.
It’s also why the humanities are important. Stemlords who brag about not doing literature classes write terrible documentation.
I think this is why the “my code documents itself” attitude appeals, even though it’s almost never enough. Most developers just can’t write, nor do they want to.
The problem with “It’s self-documenting” is that there are inevitably questions about what it says, and there’s no additional resources to pull from.
Maybe, just maybe, people have different strengths and weaknesses and cooperating around our differences is what makes us succeed.
If you know your weakness is writing documentation, please hire a technical writer.
Most open source projects rely on volunteers, and few technical writers volunteer.
Totally agree. And I’d argue that we don’t even need technical writers. Even if all people do is correct grammar and spelling mistakes it would be helpful, let alone actually writing docs. It’s one of the easiest ways non-technical folks can get involved with open source projects.
Every time I get stuck on something confusing I’m a README and figure it out I try to submit a patch that makes it more explicit.
If the documentation is sufficient for the intended audience, it’s good enough.
That’s exactly what I’m saying, sorry if it came across somehow askew.
My point was there is no point in competing over whose job is “better”, we should be working together.
There is a case to be made that people should be a bit more well rounded in general, and not just find a specific niche.
So non-technical people should still have a decent familiarity with computers and maybe be able to do some very basic coding. And technical people should spend some time working on their written and verbal communication.
Because in both cases, it makes people more effective in their roles.
My CS major required me to take two upper division English classes and I think they helped me more in my career than my upper division CS classes. People forget that documentation is for ourselves too
I’m really thankful that I had a great English teacher in high school, and that my degree required a technical writing class. Being able to write a coherent email got me further in my career than the technical stuff I learned in college.
I completely agree. Most peer feedbacks that I get mention my documentation. It has helped me so much
Humanities are very important. Robots are not yet capable of flipping burgers!
Robots can definitely flip burgers.
Some can even do it twice!
The mistake is the assumption of a certain level of end user knowledge.
Why’s that a mistake? Not everything is built for a novice
I agree with this. When I publish my code, it is documented for someone in my field with around my level of knowledge. I assume you know DNS, I assume you know what a vector is, I assume you know what a dht is, I assume you know what O(log n) is.
I’m not writing a CS50 course, I’m helping you use the code I wrote.
Might be different for software like libre office which is supposed to be used by anyone, but most software on earth is built with other developers in mind.
You have to assume some level of end user knowledge, otherwise every piece of documentation would start with “What a computer does” and “How to turn your computer on.”
I’ve found the best practice is to list your assumptions at the top of the article with links to more detailed instructions.
I do agree, manies have I found documentation saying “make a fresh install of Raspbian” as if I’m using the computer for this single issue
(Disclaimer: I am not running matrix on a Raspberry Pi)
Another case is listing a huge number of steps to do some task, without acting describing what the end goal for each set of instructions is (common in “how to” guides, and especially ones that involve a GUI).
This means that less technical users don’t really understand what is going on and are just following steps in a rote way, and it wastes the time of technical users since they probably know how to achieve each goal already.
Here’s some more of the owl, the official docs: https://element-hq.github.io/synapse/latest/usage/configuration/config_documentation.html#registration_shared_secret
So add this to your matrix config:
registration_shared_secret: <PRIVATE STRING>
I’m guessing this string can be whatever you want it to be.
But yeah, I agree in general, some of the docs can be pretty opaque. For example, I wanted to configure NextCloud w/ Collabora in Docker, and I kept getting errors when trying to do what a few sites recommended. I ended up figuring it out, but only through trial and error. I’m going to go through the same pain this weekend when I try out ownCloud Infinite Scale up and running to compare.
Yeah that’s the problem is guessing what they meant.
I had very similar experiences with OCIS. Got it all set up following the quick start guide, found extremely odd and unacceptable behaviour with storage space ballooning, start troubleshooting and find “oh you had to do this, this and this manually, it’s in the docs” It is in the docs, but never referenced by any other part of the docs. Because why would you mention the thing that the admin must manually set up in 100% of installs in your setup guide?
Anyway I’ve become that guy ranting on the internet that I don’t want to be. So just so you don’t suffer as much as I did; you have to create scheduled tasks via cron or your preference of scheduler to clean your uploads folder and data blobs. This also did not fix my specific issue and I ended up giving up on OCIS and sticking to Nextcloud.
Huh, thanks!
I’m going to run both in parallel for a month or so before trying to get my SO to use it so I can better estimate the WAF. So far, NextCloud is good enough, but it’s kinda slow (and I have Redis configured) despite being on pretty beefy hardware (Ryzen 1700 w/ 16GB RAM). I really hate PHP, so I’d prefer a project I can contribute to if needed. I worked w/ Go for almost 10 years, so OCIS would be a natural fit, but I’d still contribute patches for PHP if that really was the best tool for the job. But I’m not going to get involved unless the project already does what I need (my contributions would be for smaller bug fixes).
But yeah, the OCIS docs look kinda mediocre from the little I’ve read of them. But at least I don’t need to mess w/ PHP config most likely and can hopefully just forward HTTP requests to it.
The move from php to go and the slowness of NC is what attracted me to the project. But I’m going to wait a bit longer until we’re flush with 3rd party setup guides cause I simply do not have the time to wade through their docs.
Honestly, as a newbie to Linux I think the ratio of well documented processes vs. “draw the rest of the fucking owl” is too damn high.
The rule seems to be that CLI familiarity is treated as though its self-evident. The exception is a ground-up documented process with no assumptions of end user knowledge.
If that could be resolved I think it would make the Linux desktop much more appealing to wider demographics.
That said, I’m proud to say that I’ve migrated my entire home studio over to linux and have not nuked my system yet. Yet… Fortunately I have backups set up.
I think if you’re talking wider demographics your model OSs are (obviously) Windows and macOS. People buy into that because CLI familiarity isn’t required. Especially with Apple products everything revolves around simplicity.
I do dream of a day when Linux can (at least somewhat) rival that. I love Linux because I am (or consider myself) intricately familiar with it and I can (theoretically) change every aspect about it. But mutability and limitless possibilities are not what makes an OS lovable to the average user. I think the advent of immutable Linux distros is a step in the right direction for mass adoption. Stuff just needs to work. Googling for StackOverflow or AskUbuntu postings shouldn’t ever be necessary when people just want to do whatever they were doing on Windows with limited technical knowledge.
However on another note, if you’re talking a home studio migration, not sure what that entails, but it sounds rather technical. I don’t want to be the guy to tell you that CLI familiarity is simply par for the course. Maybe your work shouldn’t require terminal interaction. Maybe there is a certain gap between absolutely basic linux tutorials and the more advanced ones like you suggest. Yet what I do want to say is that if you want to do repairwork on your own car it’s not exactly like that is supposed to be an accessible skill to acquire. Even if there are videos explaining step by step what you need to do, eventually you still need to get your own practice in. Stuff will break. We make mistakes and we learn from them. That is the point I’m trying to get at. Not all knowledge can be bestowed from without. Some of it just needs to grow organically from within.
Don’t forget the situations where you find a good blog post or article that you can actually follow along until halfway through you get an error that the documentation doesn’t address. So you do some research and find out that they updated the commands for one of the dependency apps, so you try to piece together the updated documents with the original post, until something else breaks and you just end up giving up out of frustration.
That sounds an awful lot like modifying an ESP32 script I’ve been trying to follow from a YouTube tutorial published a while back. Research hasn’t uncovered anything for me to troubleshoot the issue so it’s a really shit experience.
Pre-systemd tutorials 💀
We hold these truths to be self evident
If only i knew the truths 😞
CLI familiarity is fine. CD, Nano, mkdir, rm. I am proficient with that. But I am not necessarily proficient with Docker (went with it because it worked nicely for another thing which was well documented and very straight forward). It’s just I’m trying to self host stuff. Some things like Wordpress and Immich are straightforward. Some things aren’t like Matrix and Mastodon. Lemmy is also notoriously bad.
Linux on the desktop almost never needs CLI interaction though. Maybe you’ll need to copy/paste a command from the internet to fix some sketchy hardware, but almost everything works OOTB these days.
However, self-hosting isn’t a desktop Linux thing, it’s a server Linux thing. You can host it on your desktop, but as soon as you do anything remotely server-related, CLI familiarity is pretty much essential.
That depends on your use case for desktop linux of course. For me, yabridge is the tool I needed to run VSTs on Linux. Its CLI only as far as I know.
Don’t get me wrong; I’m not afraid of the CLI. Its just some tools are assuming the end user is a server admin or someone with deeper than the upper crust knowledge of how Linux works.
yabridge
Ah, that’s a pretty niche use-case. But yeah, the deeper you go, the more you’ll have to rely on the CLI.
I always update via CLI 'cause most GUI tools are slow and buggy, so…
I do too, but the GUI tools do work.
Matrix and its implementations like Synapse have a very intimidating architecture (I’d go as far as to call most of the implementations somewhat overengineered) and the documentation ranges from inconsistent to horrific. I ran into this particular situation myself, Fortunately this particular step you’re overthinking it. You can use any random string you want. It doesn’t even have to be random, just as long as what you put in the config file matches. It’s basically just a temporary admin password.
Matrix was by far the worst thing I’ve ever tried to self-host. It’s a hot mess. Good luck, I think you’re close to the finish line.
I still have to sort out having a different server name to the access name so I can use the domain as well. Do I just put a field into the config like the rest? Can it go anywhere?
Ok now it’s asking me to serve a “.well_known” file like… How?
Ah, that goes on my main server. I’m learning.
funnily there’s an… ansible i think? project that makes selfhosting synapse easy as fuck, you basically just go “ansible deploy synapse” or whatever the syntax is and it does almost everything for you.
My favorite thing is purging remote cached media.
You need a timestamp, which is fine.
You just need to figure out how many miliseconds since the unix epoch the media you want to purge was uploaded, and then offset the time to only purge that old or older.
Easy!
So, you need a unix time value followed by 000?
That first part you can calculate with
date +%s -d '2024-07-02 12:00'.I ended up doing basically that.
Current time in ms, minus 2629800000 (a month) = timestamp to use to prune from.
I haven’t done any programming in over 20 years, but I think I can make a contribution to projects by trying to improve documentation, once I start using some projects
Docker
There’s your first mistake.
Oh, hi, I’m just stopping by from the ‘compile from source and create a systemd unit file’ tribe.
I used to try and compile from source first. Was good experience. Don’t see why I should bother now, though 🤣
Setting up synapse is particularly painful.
this meme got so much funnier after I realized it was synapse/matrix
Yeah, I can’t fuck with Docker either. Check out Yunohost if you want something that is actually easy to get up and running.
I want to self host.
Yunohost is self hosting. You install Debian on your computer/server at home and run the Yunohost setup script.
It seems to be it’s own operating system. Will this screw up my setup?
Alternatively, you can create new users from the command line.
This can be done as follows:If synapse was installed via pip, activate the virtualenv as follows (if Synapse was installed via a prebuilt package, register_new_matrix_user should already be on the search path):
cd ~/synapse
source env/bin/activate
synctl start # if not already running
Run the following command:
register_new_matrix_user -c homeserver.yaml
This will prompt you to add details for the new user, and will then connect to the running Synapse to create the new user. For example:New user localpart: erikj
Password:
Confirm password:
Make admin [no]:
Success!This process uses a setting registration_shared_secret, which is shared between Synapse itself and the register_new_matrix_user script.
It doesn’t matter what it is (a random value is generated by --generate-config), but it should be kept secret, as anyone with knowledge of it can register users, including admin accounts, on your server even if enable_registration is false.https://element-hq.github.io/synapse/latest/setup/installation.html
Being able to find and read software documentation and knowing how to use the tools that automate software deployment are why SRE/devops/cloud guys get paid the big bucks.
I definitely recommend synapse over dendrite or conduit btw. dendrite and conduit have a bunch of missing features, and my first attempt at dendrite server shat the bed with its NATS store and died. I definitely recommend Synapse for all matrix servers going forward.
The .well-known entries I found were the hardest to test, since synapse doesn’t provide a web server for them, and Element throws a fit if you don’t have CORS set up exactly in the way it wants you to.
I mostly have my matrix server working now, with bridges even. However, Element randomly logs itself out on a daily basis which is really frustrating :/
Protip: Use Conduit instead of Synapse. It’s significantly lighter than Synapse, easier to run, and I guess you can be a cool kid by running something written in Rust. The documentation is even worse though :/ https://conduit.rs/
deleted by creator
Dendrite is still in beta and isn’t feature-complete. I tried all three (Synapse, Dendrite and Conduit) and Conduit worked the best for me - I found it to be the most reliable and use the least amount of RAM. It also uses an embedded database (RocksDB) which makes setup a bit easier.
I tried joining several large Matrix rooms from my server, and the experience with Synapse was dreadful. It was using 100% of one core for long periods of time. In some cases it would just fall over and not join the room. Dendrite and Conduit are better in that regard.
Conduit’s weak point is its documentation. I had to read Synapse’s documentation to understand a few key concepts. I’ve been meaning to help write docs for Conduit but just haven’t had time. I’ve got a PR to improve the styling of the docs at least, but need to do some tweaks to it.
