The only side I’m on is that of the Palestinian people right now. My goal is to stop all suffering. So my main contention is with the undue support that many individuals – @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world for example – give out to Hamas because they don’t understand reality and they think it’s virtuous.
Hamas does not recognize Israel as a state. At least Fatah was willing to come to negotiations.
Hamas has in its charter the liberation of Palestine from “the river to the sea”. They will not stop until this objective is achieved while their leaders sit in lavish palaces in Qatar and other places. If you were to ask me, TheFonz, I’m personally ok going back to the 68 partition. But reality is it’s not happening. That ship has sailed over fifty years ago. We are 100 years past the Peele commission. What are Israeli kids born today going to do about the 68 partition? Absolutely nothing.
So while Hamas keeps throwing rockets into the lion’s den thinking they will liberate Palestine while their people get crushed by bombs is incredibly sad. And people here keep cheering them on. I want a complete ceasefire and removal of all Israeli settlements.
Hamas does not recognize Israel as a state. At least Fatah was willing to come to negotiations.
Does israel recognize Palestine now? Oh wait they don’t. They openly state they will do everything to prevent a Palestinian state being established. But now that Hamas has retaliated suddenly Palestine is on the fast track to get recognized.
What a weird pivot. That’s what you took from my comment? Do you think I’m here to defend Israel? At least Israel acceded authority to the PLO during the Oslo accords. Progress is made incrementally not overnight.
Israeli settlements need to stop. I don’t disagree. What’s your plan to bring Israel to negotiations? Should Hamas keep doing what it’s doing? Is that…working in your opinion? Give me a concrete path @linkerbaan@lemmy.world. Walk us through a process that gets this resolved. Or do you not care about Palestinians? It’s more exciting to root for Hamas on Lemmy, right?
Just like the Nazis israel does not have any interest in diplomacy so only one option remains.
Hamas did a peaceful march in 2018 and got massacared. You can keep victim blaming all you want. They have tried all peaceful options. The only problem in this conflict is israel.
Israel, as awful as they are, did present paths for moving forward 68, Camp David, Oslo accords. Now, you’ll say they were never in good faith or enough. Which is fair, perhaps it wasn’t enough to secure peace, but at least it was something.
The alternative you’re proposing is throwing more Palestinian civilians into the fire because of your moral indignation towards Israel. I personally, don’t want that. I want harm reduction. I want Israeli settlements removed and Palestinians to have the right to self govern (two state solution). But propping Hamas indefinitely will not achieve this. It’s been already many decades since this conflict started. Hamas is not going to turn the tide. Before Hamas there was the PLO, and before them many others. Change can only happen with a 3rd party intervention the same way we did in Bosnia/Yugoslavia. But a ceasefire is needed now, not more moral grandstanding and rockets.
Israel is actively inviting Americans to come on a “birthright” trip while denying native Palestinians the right to live in peace on their home land. The 2018 march was most definitely a peaceful march. Sadly israel decided to snipe handicapped people in wheelchairs 300 meters from the borders and have a competition who could cripple the most kneecaps. And israel shot medics of course.
Israel has denied every peaceful solution and tried to bypass the Palestinians with the Abraham accords.
The tide has already turned. You can complain about Hamas not being the perfect victim. They definitely didn’t do everything perfect. They shot many unarmed people. They did war crimes. But in the end they were not left with any other option than violent resistance.
Yes, what Israel did was wrong. I stated that. Is there an echo in here or can we not go two sentences without feigning moral indignation?
Hamas is definitely not the victim. They are fighting a proxy war for Iran and sacrificing Palestinians. Their goals are unrealistic. You think the tide is turning. I’m 38 and I’ve seen this song dance with Israel/Hamas for a long time. Until there is a third party intervention in the region nothing will change. Maybe the IDF will slow down for a few years until the next escalation and then it’s back to carpet bombing civilians in Gaza and the next generation of Lemmy users will come in and start the same empty rhetoric. Israeli occupation needs to be stopped, but it won’t be thanks to Hamas tactics.
Thanks for your perspective.
The only side I’m on is that of the Palestinian people right now. My goal is to stop all suffering. So my main contention is with the undue support that many individuals – @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world for example – give out to Hamas because they don’t understand reality and they think it’s virtuous.
So while Hamas keeps throwing rockets into the lion’s den thinking they will liberate Palestine while their people get crushed by bombs is incredibly sad. And people here keep cheering them on. I want a complete ceasefire and removal of all Israeli settlements.
Does israel recognize Palestine now? Oh wait they don’t. They openly state they will do everything to prevent a Palestinian state being established. But now that Hamas has retaliated suddenly Palestine is on the fast track to get recognized.
What a weird pivot. That’s what you took from my comment? Do you think I’m here to defend Israel? At least Israel acceded authority to the PLO during the Oslo accords. Progress is made incrementally not overnight.
Conveniently ignore the part where israel openly states they will not recognize Palestine and are very actively colonizing and annexing the west bank.
Israeli settlements need to stop. I don’t disagree. What’s your plan to bring Israel to negotiations? Should Hamas keep doing what it’s doing? Is that…working in your opinion? Give me a concrete path @linkerbaan@lemmy.world. Walk us through a process that gets this resolved. Or do you not care about Palestinians? It’s more exciting to root for Hamas on Lemmy, right?
Yes what Hamas has done has proven extremely effective. They have prevented the Abraham accords and now nations are on track to uniliterally recognize Palestine.
Just like the Nazis israel does not have any interest in diplomacy so only one option remains.
Hamas did a peaceful march in 2018 and got massacared. You can keep victim blaming all you want. They have tried all peaceful options. The only problem in this conflict is israel.
What the Israelis did during that protest was tragic and awful, but to pretend the march was entirely peaceful is false.
2018 March of Return
Israel, as awful as they are, did present paths for moving forward 68, Camp David, Oslo accords. Now, you’ll say they were never in good faith or enough. Which is fair, perhaps it wasn’t enough to secure peace, but at least it was something.
The alternative you’re proposing is throwing more Palestinian civilians into the fire because of your moral indignation towards Israel. I personally, don’t want that. I want harm reduction. I want Israeli settlements removed and Palestinians to have the right to self govern (two state solution). But propping Hamas indefinitely will not achieve this. It’s been already many decades since this conflict started. Hamas is not going to turn the tide. Before Hamas there was the PLO, and before them many others. Change can only happen with a 3rd party intervention the same way we did in Bosnia/Yugoslavia. But a ceasefire is needed now, not more moral grandstanding and rockets.
Israel is actively inviting Americans to come on a “birthright” trip while denying native Palestinians the right to live in peace on their home land. The 2018 march was most definitely a peaceful march. Sadly israel decided to snipe handicapped people in wheelchairs 300 meters from the borders and have a competition who could cripple the most kneecaps. And israel shot medics of course.
Israel has denied every peaceful solution and tried to bypass the Palestinians with the Abraham accords.
The tide has already turned. You can complain about Hamas not being the perfect victim. They definitely didn’t do everything perfect. They shot many unarmed people. They did war crimes. But in the end they were not left with any other option than violent resistance.
Yes, what Israel did was wrong. I stated that. Is there an echo in here or can we not go two sentences without feigning moral indignation?
Hamas is definitely not the victim. They are fighting a proxy war for Iran and sacrificing Palestinians. Their goals are unrealistic. You think the tide is turning. I’m 38 and I’ve seen this song dance with Israel/Hamas for a long time. Until there is a third party intervention in the region nothing will change. Maybe the IDF will slow down for a few years until the next escalation and then it’s back to carpet bombing civilians in Gaza and the next generation of Lemmy users will come in and start the same empty rhetoric. Israeli occupation needs to be stopped, but it won’t be thanks to Hamas tactics.