I totally understand all of this about the joke. I understand Tom Hank’s character is meant to be the villain.
The author drew this. He thought the world needed it. The objectification of woman is part of the punchline. This is why it’s punching down: The author used the objectification of woman (a real problem that woman experience in their life) to serve the punchline. It makes no real critique of the male character here, it simply presents him and his actions. Can you have bad characters in a non-problematic comic? Yes. Is this happening here? I’d argue no, because a misogynist can just as easily laugh at this comic for misogynist reasons.
I’m just pointing out the comic is gross. If you found it funny I don’t think you’re a bad person. I just don’t think it deserves to be here without someone complaining (which I am doing).
I don’t really agree that discrimination being a punchlime of a joke is a bad thing; if anything I think it’s helpful to make bigots a laughing stock. It serves the practical purpose of suggesting that this kind of behaviour deserves ostracism, and can cause introspection in those that exhibit that kind of behaviour.
And I think I disagree that the male character isn’t criticised. Although it’s obviously not explicit (the comic writer doesn’t explicitly say it’s wrong), it is pretty obvious that the behaviour is not to be approved of. You yourself have said you understand that the intent is for him to be the villain of the piece.
I also want to discuss the suggestion that we shouldn’t produce media that can be misinterpreted by bigots for their enjoyment. I think there is some truth to that; art criticising toxic masculinity has often been used as a rallying point for it (see Tyler Durden).
But I also think that abandoning spoof and parody (and even just portrayal of real-life bigotry) removes a massive part of our toolkit as writers.
Matt Baume has a great video on the American sitcom ‘All in the Family’. One of the characters starts out as a bigot, and indeed many bigoted Americans initially identify with him. But he is made the butt of jokes, and slowly his character changes opinion and is reformed over the course of the series. Baume thinks this may have had a positive impact on gay acceptance in the US.
Anyway: to me the comic is fine. It makes a joke about the guy from castaway having a thing for a volleyball, and how that warps his future relationships.
James Acaster’s bit on Ricky Gervais is a classic example. The transphobia is the punchline, and forms an integral part of the routine.
Holy crap, I liked what I saw of Ricky Gervais but this got me looking into that Trans sketch and it’s really bad taste. Plus he supposedly ends it saying he supports trans people but just finds it weird that there’s people who don’t want to do surgery. Which I mean, isn’t the worst of takes (kinda speaking out of his field though), but… punching down isn’t really the best way to show you’re “supportive” of something.
Hey, thanks for keeping an open mind and looking into it yourself. It’s a really nice trait to see.
For those that haven’t come across it, he does a ‘sketch’ where he says that if people can identify as transgender, he can identify as a chimp. Which is very 2007; very attack helicopter of him, and commits the cardinal sin of both punching down, and not being very funny.
So it’s not even a one-off thing, wtf. Now I really want to hear him having a serious conversation about it because I really don’t see how can a person repeatedly doing punching down jokes on a community say they’re supportive of it.
I totally understand all of this about the joke. I understand Tom Hank’s character is meant to be the villain.
The author drew this. He thought the world needed it. The objectification of woman is part of the punchline. This is why it’s punching down: The author used the objectification of woman (a real problem that woman experience in their life) to serve the punchline. It makes no real critique of the male character here, it simply presents him and his actions. Can you have bad characters in a non-problematic comic? Yes. Is this happening here? I’d argue no, because a misogynist can just as easily laugh at this comic for misogynist reasons.
I’m just pointing out the comic is gross. If you found it funny I don’t think you’re a bad person. I just don’t think it deserves to be here without someone complaining (which I am doing).
I don’t really agree that discrimination being a punchlime of a joke is a bad thing; if anything I think it’s helpful to make bigots a laughing stock. It serves the practical purpose of suggesting that this kind of behaviour deserves ostracism, and can cause introspection in those that exhibit that kind of behaviour.
James Acaster’s bit on Ricky Gervais is a classic example. The transphobia is the punchline, and forms an integral part of the routine.
And I think I disagree that the male character isn’t criticised. Although it’s obviously not explicit (the comic writer doesn’t explicitly say it’s wrong), it is pretty obvious that the behaviour is not to be approved of. You yourself have said you understand that the intent is for him to be the villain of the piece.
I also want to discuss the suggestion that we shouldn’t produce media that can be misinterpreted by bigots for their enjoyment. I think there is some truth to that; art criticising toxic masculinity has often been used as a rallying point for it (see Tyler Durden).
But I also think that abandoning spoof and parody (and even just portrayal of real-life bigotry) removes a massive part of our toolkit as writers.
Matt Baume has a great video on the American sitcom ‘All in the Family’. One of the characters starts out as a bigot, and indeed many bigoted Americans initially identify with him. But he is made the butt of jokes, and slowly his character changes opinion and is reformed over the course of the series. Baume thinks this may have had a positive impact on gay acceptance in the US.
Anyway: to me the comic is fine. It makes a joke about the guy from castaway having a thing for a volleyball, and how that warps his future relationships.
Holy crap, I liked what I saw of Ricky Gervais but this got me looking into that Trans sketch and it’s really bad taste. Plus he supposedly ends it saying he supports trans people but just finds it weird that there’s people who don’t want to do surgery. Which I mean, isn’t the worst of takes (kinda speaking out of his field though), but… punching down isn’t really the best way to show you’re “supportive” of something.
Hey, thanks for keeping an open mind and looking into it yourself. It’s a really nice trait to see.
For those that haven’t come across it, he does a ‘sketch’ where he says that if people can identify as transgender, he can identify as a chimp. Which is very 2007; very attack helicopter of him, and commits the cardinal sin of both punching down, and not being very funny.
So it’s not even a one-off thing, wtf. Now I really want to hear him having a serious conversation about it because I really don’t see how can a person repeatedly doing punching down jokes on a community say they’re supportive of it.