Mastodon is a great platform. I have an account there, and I have been using it as a twitter replacement for several months. I have been using nostr for around two months. I have also read fairly deeply into how Mastodon and Nostr work. I think nostr is better. Here’s why.

Background:

Mastodon and Nostr offer basically the same thing: a federated/decentralized replacement to twitter. They share the same basic features: tweeting, following people, a public square w/ trending notes and hashtags moderated by instance rules, DMs.

Mastodon/Lemmy/Kbin all federate through an underlying protocol called ActivityPub. You create an account at an instance which you use to interact with these sites. Your instance can push/pull data to other instances via the AP protocol.

Nostr is an underlying protocol, like ActivityPub. The main service is hosts currently, called Nostr, is a twitter clone, but there’s other stuff like a video streaming platform. They all federate with each other just like Mastodon/Lemmy/Kbin. There is no reddit clone on nostr yet, but I imagine it’s only a matter of tine.

Instead of “instances”, nostr has “relays”. The app or site you connect to nostr through will usually connect to multiple relays (just like your mastodon instance will connect to multiple other instances). Relays, like instances, have their own moderation policies and can choose what kind of content they allow.

Here’s why I think nostr simply works better:

  • In mastodon your identity is tied to your instance, in nostr it’s not. If your instance decides to close up? You have to make a new account somewhere else. You lose all your followers, the list of who you follow, your tweets, your DMs, etc. This sucks. This happened to me early in my mastodon experience. It was annoying, but it would be way more annoying if I had spent five years building up that account.
  • In mastodon, your instance can stop you from seeing content from other instances and ban users from other instances. While this moderation might be nice sometimes, I’d rather it be opt-in than mandatory. Nostr relays don’t have this power. Likewise, Mastodon instances can stop their followers from following you. Nostr doesn’t allow this.
  • In mastodon, admins can read your DMs. If you DM somebody on another instance, that’s two instances that can read your DMs, and so can anybody who breaks into their server. In nostr, all DMs are encrypted by default and can only be read by the intended recipient.
  • If mastodon and fediverse’s goals are to create a P2P or federated network of instances, having users tied to instances is not good. It incentivizes users to pick bigger, more stable instances which will lead to centralization over time.

A question of funding

One question that fediverse needs to solve is: how are we going to fund hosting costs for instances and more broadly, development?

There are many valid options such as: ads on instances, selling “badges” or awards like reddit, subscriptions for extra features, etc. What is not a sustainable plan, imo, is just hoping users donate enough to keep things afloat. Open source and free software projects have a long history of being underfunded leading to them closing up shop or not reaching their full potential. Nostr at least has a potential answer for this, while AP/fedi don’t really seem to yet.

Nostr has an optional built-in tipping functionality where you can leave tips for users whose content you like. You can tip a fraction of a penny or $100. And users can tip you. This has a few effects. For one, it incentivizes people to use nostr. Non-profit orgs, for example, can use it to fundraise.

Secondly, it provides a sustainable funding mechanisms for relays and development. When you make a tip, it goes through your “tip pool” and you can select people or entities to give a % of every tip to. So, for example, you can leave a 10c tip on a tweet and 1c automatically goes to the relay operator.

Where Mastodon/AP is better:

  • Mastodon has more people I want to follow. There is a greater user base and diversity.
  • Mastodon has a more consistent interface. Pretty much every mastodon site looks the same. Nostr has a dizzying array of apps and web portals. That’s great for user choice, not great for user onboarding.
  • While nostr relays in theory can filter content and cultivate public squares with specific sets of values, I’ve found in practice this hasn’t been done as much, most relays seem the same. I think in time as the user base grows this will happen organically, there’s just little reason to separate them out now.
  • Password recovery/account loss. With nostr, your identity is a private key generated by your client. This means your identity isn’t tied to an instance (yay!). But, if you lose the private key, you lose your identity and have to make a new one. Likewise, if somebody steals your key, they can post as you. And there is no real password recovery functionality since nobody else has your password. There are good technical solutions for this like social account recovery and key revocation certificates but they aren’t currently implemented. I imagine they will be with time.
  • Mastodon/Lemmy/Kbin/etc can all talk to each other through ActivityPub. While Nostr’s underlying protocol supports this kind of federation, the twitter clone is the main platform with users on it and it doesn’t have a reddit clone etc.
  • flamingos-cant@ukfli.ukEnglish
    0·
    5 months ago

    This assumes platforms win based on technical details, which they don’t. Mastodon will probably ‘win’ (whatever that means) because of network effects and general culture.

    Nostr has an optional built-in tipping functionality where you can leave tips for users whose content you like. You can tip a fraction of a penny or $100. And users can tip you. This has a few effects. For one, it incentivizes people to use nostr. Non-profit orgs, for example, can use it to fundraise.

    But user have to be technically minded enough, and willing, to set up a crypto wallet to do this.

    In mastodon, admins can read your DMs. If you DM somebody on another instance, that’s two instances that can read your DMs, and so can anybody who breaks into their server. In nostr, all DMs are encrypted by default and can only be read by the intended recipient.

    E2E encryption is possible with AP. Besides, if what you’re talking about needs to be unreadable to third parties, you should probably use something like Matrix or Signal, especially considering how bad Mastodon’s DMs actually are.

    • xep@kbin.social
      0·
      5 months ago

      crypto wallet

      Thank you for this piece of information. Nostr is not for me.

      • makeasnek@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
        0·
        5 months ago

        You don’t have to do anything with crypto, it just supports crypto integration if you want to tip other users. Just like reddit did. It’s an optional feature.

    • makeasnek@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
      0·
      5 months ago

      But user have to be technically minded enough, and willing, to set up a crypto wallet to do this.

      True. That would be true of any platform which allows tips, you’d have to connect to some source of money whether it be paypal or crypto. Paypal’s fees would be prohibitively expensive but it would be theoretically doable. Either way, it’s a <5 minute setup process if they care to do it.

      Interesting I didn’t know AP supported E2E. I guess it’s Mastodon that doesn’t support that element of the AP protocol then?

      • flamingos-cant@ukfli.ukEnglish
        0·
        5 months ago

        True. That would be true of any platform which allows tips, you’d have to connect to some source of money whether it be paypal or crypto. Paypal’s fees would be prohibitively expensive but it would be theoretically doable. Either way, it’s a <5 minute setup process if they care to do it.

        But people already have Paypal and understand how to use it. Most people don’t understand cryptocurrency, and don’t want anything to do with it because of its association with scams.

        Interesting I didn’t know AP supported E2E. I guess it’s Mastodon that doesn’t support that element of the AP protocol then?

        Here’s the issue.

        Also, I looked in to Nostr a bit for this and do you seriously think profile links like this will catch on with people?

        https://primal.net/p/460c25e682fda7832b52d1f22d3d22b3176d972f60dcdc3212ed8c92ef85065c

        Say what you want about AP, but usernames like <(at) makeasnek (at) lemmy.ml> are at least memorable. How am I suppose to tell someone IRL about my Nostr profile, say of a 64 bit string out loud?

        • makeasnek@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
          0·
          5 months ago

          But people already have Paypal and understand how to use it. Most people don’t understand cryptocurrency, and don’t want anything to do with it because of its association with scams.

          At one point they didn’t, and they had to sign up and learn how to use it. But your critique is fair. It’s an optional feature, you don’t have to use it. The benefit from the platform perspective is that the fees are stupid low so micropayments can work well. Like 1c on $5 low. And it makes it easier to do the payments internationally. Microtransaction tips really couldn’t be done with Paypal or really any other competitive non-crypto system.

          Also, I looked in to Nostr a bit for this and do you seriously think profile links like this will catch on with people?

          The nostr username schema isn’t great. There’s a couple protocol proposals to simplify them, they will look a lot more like username@website.com in the future. AP currently is doing way better at this. I’ll add this to the list in the post of places where AP is better.

        • Handles@leminal.spaceEnglish
          0·
          5 months ago

          Most people don’t understand cryptocurrency, and don’t want anything to do with it because of its association with scams

          This is exactly why I won’t touch Nostr or any blockchain project with a ten foot pole. The crypto Bros are really trying to legitimise the technology so one day they can use the Monopoly money they stashed away.

          I’m sad that this connection is only mentioned in a third level comment, potential users should be aware what they’re getting into with Nostr.