“Hillary is the best choice, she’s guaranteed to win!” - the democratic party in 2016.
“Well, she may not be the best choice, but it’s her turn.” – insiders.
She was never the best choice of the Democrats available, but you must admit we had no idea how goddamned stupid people were back then. She should have won. Turns out, yeah, russia was listening.
I don’t know who down voted you? They have proven several times that Trump’s inner circle was with Russian businesses that controlled advertising on Facebook. It’s not that far of a stretch.
They probably worked harder than they had to. She really is an unlikable piece of shit.
Ridiculously qualified, intelligent, experienced, liberal as we could hope for at the time.
Just so unlikable. And shrill!! Oh, and not even a man. Pfft.
*establishment democrat, not liberal
FUCK. Goddamn fucking liberal is not liberal is bad is left is bougie is FUCK.
Talking with a hallucinating AI in the form of a lemmy community. Is anyone here over 25 and a registered American voter? Anyone? Couple of people, okay. Just a couple huh. Well, makes sense.
Um… ok. You have a problem, bud.
She lost the most winnable election she could hope for. Must be the Russians.
The russians helped a lot.
She wasn’t running against Woodrow Wilson. That’s literally the most winnable race as long as Taft doesn’t spoil the vote.
One thing not being mentioned here is that people were tired of establishment politicians who don’t change anything. So many people voted for Obama hoping for change, but then said “fuck it” and voted for Trump.
Hilary Clinton is an extremely condescending political elite that seems to have about as much humanity as a lizard.
She’s a perfect representation of the DNC.
Disagree. She’s spent the vast majority of her life in politics to do some good. As a woman, she broke a lot of rules and is still to this day mercilessly attacked for it.
Was she so perfect even the shitheaded communist idiots loved every single thing she did? Astoundingly, unbelievably, Nope. Was she the best choice for president of all the candidates on the ballot in 2016? Yes. Without a doubt
Is she forever going to be shit on for not being perfect in every way to all people? No. Just until the current living generations are dead.
Whatever. People need to shit on her, go for it. Shit yourselves a bust of Hillary you can shit on. You can meet all sorts of wonderful Limbaugh fans in there.
Lol I don’t think it’s a good thing if it takes everyone dying for your reputation to improve. That is a pretty wild argument.
Also, you’re just calling everyone that supports communism a shit headed idiot? For real?
And she was a terrible, weak candidate that brought nothing progressive to the table. That’s why she lost to Donald Trump.
It was painfully obvious that Bernie was the better candidate. He energized people. He would have stomped on Trump.
But instead the DNC had to give Hilary “her turn” and now we’re in this mess.
Being an angry Hilary supporter is ridiculous and honestly kind of funny.
Did we forget Bernie existed and got shafted that election?
Bernie lost. Even accounting for the shafting. I wish he didn’t. But it happens.
Al Gore should have won too, but here we are.
How many of the 40 million votes were in locked-in blue states?
There’s more than just president up for election.
Not that many. Guess why they’re locked-in blue states.
Do you have a source? California is locked in blue, but also just has a huge population.
I would wonder this too. Also is there even a point of voting in a blue locked state beside the chance that there’s a huge surge in Republican voters? Like is there a difference between an area winning with 72% of the vote compared to 75% of the vote? Genuinely asking as I am a moron.
Illinois has Mary Miller and she’s not that far away from Champaign county which is where UIUC is located.
Kamala Harris is the reason I’m voting this year. I would have strongly considered Biden before if he would have been talking about Supreme Court reform before now. I have issues with Kamala Harris’ record, but it’s leagues above Biden’s and light years above Trump. It just doesn’t feel hopeless anymore to me.
I’m so done with the Democrats. I’m not voting for Biden. I’ve voted for these guys for 10 years and at this point I feel like they do nothing with the power they are given when they do have it.
Oh okay so you’d rather let the country and all LGBT people be killed instead
What an unhinged false dichotomy. You really should make a normie conservative friend sometime. You’ll find that most of them aren’t the caricature depicted on Lemmy.
What an unhinged view of conservatives in the US. You should try keeping your political leanings secret in a conservative area while being white-passing, straight-passing, male-passing. The things you hear will curdle milk. Yet around people they know are liberal or will otherwise take offense, suddenly they’re all sugar and sweetness.
Da, above commenter is correct in refusing votes for the Biden. America must have strong leader, maybe not as strong as Putin, but very strong to crush enemies with might.
Many people are saying this things about Democratic, and I too agree it is been long enough, almost ten years to fix all problems. They have had chance. Is time for new powerful leader like Trump again to make important decisions of country.
I also have been voting the Democrat, but no longer. As are many of my instafriends who are also women of color and our many progressive comrades. These are the end of Democratic tirannys.
Almost downvoted you here. Nice jerk. Would have taken the bait if I didn’t see you were the OP.
This is /s, right?
In their logic, they’ll learn their lesson and do better next time but sadly they won’t get a chance to reap their lesson next time.
You forgot to post this in r/Walkaway first to make sure the grammar matched with English grammar.
I was wrong to feel that way. Harris 2024
Hillary Clinton is our best candidate let’s convince the whole primary field to drop out because the democrat donors want Hillary and it’s her turn. Said the democratic party.
Also my vote in Delaware didn’t lose her the election. We have popular vote on a state by state basis. Can’t blame 95% of the democrats or independents that didn’t vote for her. They should be polling in the areas that will decide the election. I think the stat was 20,000 or so votes in the middle of the country decided it.
True but what’s the 95% democrats number mean?
You can’t blame 95% of the democrats or independents that didn’t vote for Hillary because their vote didn’t decide the election.
Pennsylvania was lost by 46,765 votes Michigan was lost by 10,704 votes Wisconsin was lost by 22,748 votesThese states are what lost the election a total of 2.18% 80,217 votes out of 14,630,990 votes in these 3 states. 6.32% of the people in America decided that election as there was 231,556,662 eligible voters and 138,884,643 voted.
Wouldn’t they be required for the states she did win?
Let me phrase it the opposite way…she won the electoral votes in other states despite the democrats and independents in other states who didn’t vote for her. You didn’t lose delaware when I voted green party for president in 2016. I am talking about the 95% of people who didn’t vote her did nothing wrong only the 2-3% in these 3 states got Trump the win.
I hear ya. But everyone who can vote, should vote. That’s all. It’s a duty as well as an honor.
You should switch from vote to freedomvote where 1 freedomvote is worth 100 votes.
How many of those were in the 5-6 states where their vote actually matters? Cuz I’m in a state thats been hard blue since like, Reagan.
We don’t have a true popular vote. If we did we’d never have a Republican president again.
I live in Utah. The difference in numbers in Utah is crazy. If everyone registered as other than Republican voted for Biden and just registered Republicans voted for Trump, Trump would still win by around 10%. Registered Democrats are outnumbered 2:1 by unaffiliated and 4:1 by Republicans.
In fact, “Unaffiliated” is the second largest group of active voters in Utah.
Yeah, you have a theocracy telling everyone how to vote. You think the populous will go against that when it means a fiery damnation for eternity?
Exactly. Mormonism is just as much a threat to the US (and any country they’re in) as the Evangelicals and fascists.
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2024/03/15/byu-will-require-incoming-students/
Or maybe, ANY Religion or “Registered Religious Practice” Organization will only get tax exemption status if they refrain from political activities like funding or sponsoring or advocating or supporting any said political group(s).
If any Scientology, Roman Catholic, Evangelical Organization, others are found to be supporting or funding or organizing for political parties including PAC donations or
briberylobbying efforts, they will immediately receive a 100% tax status at 100% tax with 100 year prison for every participating Religious person/member/leader who did the deed.
populace
I’m proud I didn’t vote Blue in 2016 and 2020. I’m not from the USA so it would be a voter fraud if I did.
That being said, dems are completely incompetent when it comes to elections, deliberately picking such terrible candidates like Hillary and Biden. I don’t believe there are actual people that voted Blue because of seeded candidate and not despite it.
Not to excuse the Democratic Party, but I would argue that it’s inevitable that they choose shit candidates for the presidency when we consider how much indoctrination Americans get over their capitalism/corporatism and how they justify and normalize the shit America did and the status quo, while omitting a lot of the important progressive historical events or (in the case of figures like MLK and Gandhi, or context behind Iran/Latin America/Israel&Palestine) don’t tell the full story. Like most Americans aren’t going to learn that the US denied millions of Jews, Roma, and other groups being displaced entry into the country right before the holocaust, leading to the deaths of millions. You also won’t learn that the US installed multiple fascist dictators, monarchs, etc. in countries after overthrowing democratic governments to serve corporate intrests or over their fear of leftist leaders. At best you might briefly touch on the wars with Iraq in government class or something.
Then you’re basically indoctrinated by history classes and society that anything left of American corporatism is communism. To the point that modern conservatives genuinely think FDR policies are extreme socialist/communist policies.
With our current voting system, an actually social democratic president would not get elected. FDR, Truman, Johnson, and Carter were the closest we could get in that regard, but those days are long gone.
That being said, I do think a lot of people genuinely voted for Hillary because of her and not solely because of Trump. Especially women and LGBTQ who wanted like… more gender equality. I think more accurately would be that there are very few white guys who voted for Hillary for any reason other than Trump being worse.
I agree with most of your points except with one about socialists being unelectable - I believe that Bernie would have moped the floor with Trump in 2016, and even more so in 2020. First woman president had a nice ring to it, but Hillary performed terribly, and with her being basicially an aristocrat of the establishment, lots of people hated her from the get go. They shanked Bernie so their corporate overlord donors wouldn’t get pissy, and voters treated that as betrayal. After very solid 8 years of Obama it get like Dems had this victory in their pocket regardless of what they do, and they commited to proving that hunch wrong. That’s at least the vibes I got from watching the elections from Europe, I did hear that Obama wasn’t as popular as he seemed to be.
And even still, considering the alternative, not voting was worse. And it continues to be worse.
How many of those registered Democrats were in a state that was +10% for either of the candidates?
Local and state races are also important and you should vote in them even if your state is a lock, but if you know for a fact your vote for president won’t matter why cast it? To give the Democrats an even greater sense of smugness at winning the popular vote despite losing the election?
https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/results/president
The difference in the 2020 election was about 7 million votes. Even with the electoral college, another 40 million votes not impacting the 2024 election would be statistically improbable. Biden would win in an unprecedented landslide.
We know what states have been swing states before. We don’t know which states will be swing states in 2024 with 100% accuracy. If enough people didn’t vote, any state would become a swing state. If everyone who has said “your vote for president won’t matter” or equivalent voted we would see radically different results in US elections.
If all those votes were in already blue states it wouldn’t have changed anything.
But I’m making the mistake of assuming voters are acting rationally and understand the rules of the game, which they don’t. They’re not going to, like I did, not vote for the presidential candidate because I keep an eye on the polls and know that it’s going 2:1 to someone but continue to vote down ballot. They’re just not voting because reasons.
We’d all be well-served to stop thinking of voters as rational people.
If all those votes were in already blue states it wouldn’t have changed anything.
That’s ridiculously unlikely. Also, what’s a blue state now may be a swing state on election day.
They’re not going to, like I did, not vote for the presidential candidate because I keep an eye on the polls and know that it’s going 2:1 to someone but continue to vote down ballot.
Polls gauge approval, which is only an approximation for who people are going to vote for. The polls aren’t supposed to be a guide for who to vote for. Vote for democracy and against fascism.
We’d all be well-served to stop thinking of voters as rational people.
It’s better to think of people as self-interested. Being self-interested does not imply a person will necessarily act or even know how to act in their own self-interest. If life was a game of perfect of information the vast majority of people would make decisions that were actually in their own self-interest. As opposed to real life where global temperatures and fascism are on the rise. It’s not for a lack of rationality that people are sleep walking into fascism. It’s a lack of knowledge and critical thinking skills. edit: typo
There was no universe where Clinton was losing MD in 2016. It went 2:1 for her. My not voting for her had zero effect.
And it is a lack of rationality. Otherwise Trump couldn’t get elected dogcatcher.
It’s the universe where enough people didn’t vote. If everyone who says stuff like this voted, we wouldn’t have had Donald Trump as president the first time.
People are incredibly rational. We can put people on the moon and send rovers to Mars. We are working on fusion reactors and quantum computers. Humanity is really good at rationality. People are really uniformed and lack critical thinking skills. Those things have to be learned.
MAGA supporters think they are acting in their own self-interest. They lack true information and the critical thinking skills to challenge the false information that they’ve been given. Given that they have been misled they then act in a rational way to their own destruction. Trump’s supporters think he’s going to make America great again. So they vote for him. They don’t check their zip code. They don’t check the polls. They are convinced that a second Trump presidency is in their own self-interest. So they do the rational thing of showing up and voting for him.
I mean ignoring the fact that you already mentioned about local and state races being immensely important, unbelievably important, there is something to be said of the notion of a president’s winning an election despite an overwhelming majority voting against him. That’s not nothing. If only for the moral message to the people of what a corrupt system we have. But also the Practical effects of it. The pressure that puts on politicians the pressure that puts on the parties the pressure that puts on legislation, the pressure that puts on future campaigning and financing, it all matters. In politics everything is connected.
If only for the moral message to the people of what a corrupt system we have.
I would think that would make people even less likely to vote, since they think it doesn’t do anything.
The pressure that puts on politicians the pressure that puts on the parties the pressure that puts on legislation, the pressure that puts on future campaigning and financing, it all matters.
I don’t believe this. Both Bush II and Trump acted like they had some kind of massive mandate despite losing the popular vote. Maybe if the shoe was on the other foot and it was Democrats winning without getting the most votes they’d be introspective enough to change tactics, but Republicans don’t give a fuck.
That’s not even counting unaffiliated and registered independent citizens that abstained.
Considering the fact that the person who had the most votes in 2016 didn’t become president I’m not sure that this matters right? What if they are all in California LOL
The rest of the world has it figured out that when the USA talks about democracy, it’s fucking lying. Americans still have yet to figure that out.
Americans are really the dumbest people on earth, it is so sad and pathetic. I feel bad for them to be honest.
Republicans haven’t won a popular vote in over 30 years or so. We all know its bullshit, democrats just have a vested interest in keeping up the illusion.
Every vote matters! Except the 2,868,686 extra votes that were for Hilary Clinton, a number of people that is larger than many republican states that were ignored and disenfranchised by the American system.
This is a fatal flaw of forgetting that your vote affects state politics which, arguably, is more impactful on your day to day matters than federal issues.
Also if you push your state more to the left, the greater odds of the NPVIC being triggered which automatically enables a national popular vote.
Or you live in a place like NY or CA with one party control so it was all conservatives running as democrats either unopposed in the local elections or the only other candidate was an actual republican.
Uhmmm… That’s why you vote in primaries as well.
American elections are a farce. Go ahead and do so if it makes you feel better about living in a collapsing oligarchy.
Also if you push your state more to the left, the greater odds of the NPVIC being triggered which automatically enables a national popular vote.
Which would get promptly shut down by our corrupt as fuck SCOTUS.
Nope. Electoral delegation is completely in control of the states. That why some can partition them (think ME and NE).
SCOTUS can do literally anything it wants, they’re not constrained by any actual rules or laws or anything.
Oh, that’s just hyperbolic defeatism. That type of thinking is really not good for you.
Republicans haven’t won a popular vote in over 30 years or so.
George W. Bush won the popular vote in 2004.
And it only took checks notes 9/11.
1/3 is still a bad track record.
Republicans win the popular vote in the past 30 years except for that one time America was super bloodthirsty and wanted a hawk in the white house
Brilliantly said!
Your votes are you giving your consent for the Palestine genocide, from the perspective of your government.
And what the orange alternative will get them?
No, they are not. And saying so is complete bullshit.
I will never take a single vote for granted considering how many elections in very recent history were literally decided by a single vote.
It’s even important to vote in states and districts that are deep red/blue where the minority party is statistically unlikely to win, because if you don’t show up the numbers will never reflect the true demographic of people who want a change. Not to mention the arguably more important down ballot races for local elections. Change on a macro scale might be difficult, but change on a local level is very possible.
The way I look at it is yeah your one vote doesn’t count for much, but consider this; if you can convince 5 friends to join you in voting for the same candidate, that’s 6 more votes that the opposition will also need to scrounge up just to win by the same margin as if you did not vote at all. That’s not insignificant. Using your right to vote can swing the social dialogue more towards compromise in future elections if enough people turn out.
if you don’t show up the numbers will never reflect the true demographic of people who want a change
If Republicans actually gave a shit about this sort of thing you’d have a point. But they win by one vote and act like they’ve got a mandate.
if you can convince 5 friends to join you
This assumes I have 5 friends. Or any friends, really.
