- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
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The opinion piece: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/13/opinion/joe-biden-president.html
Oh, haha, first time trying to unify the left, huh?
Italians:
He’s just done with our shenanigans
Does Bernie want to lose?
Drumpf is a living survivor martyr. Nothing is now gonna hold anything back. Every thing is now going to hit the fan.
Honestly second thing I thought of when I saw it. First was that it was staged.
Yesss, that’s satisfying.
Satisfying to hear Democrats throw yet again another election?
Rare case of disagreeing with you, Bernie.
Yep. But let’s explore this further under the hood.
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Nobody of the progressive caucus can break ranks lest that be used against the party as a wedge-drive issue by operatives later, whether Biden stays in or not.
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Bernie was essentially promised a high level committee position if he traded falling in line with Biden. This his returning of the favor.
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Calls for Biden to step down will be completely ineffective from the progressive coalition anyway. Biden is a centrist and doesn’t hold much respect for them. The people who matter are the likes of Clyburn and Pelosi.
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I have an unpopular opinion. Swapping candidates a couple months from election will look really disorganized and even weaker than keeping him. Especially to swing voters. And it’ll be rushed. I doubt the replacement will be well known, so you expect me to get to know, learn who they are and develop a platform in a couple months? I think they’d lose too.
It’s too late. The spineless centrists controlling the party waffled too long and I bet they cost the election again. Just like in 2016. I’m really disappointed in the Democratic Party and how it’s condensed it’s power more towards the top and quite frankly, am tired of their muted response to things like project 2025 until months before the election. It’s been around since. Before trump was elected, but without a catchy name. I passed around the leaked documents on it in 2017.
I’m just reminded of ‘Baby I’m an Anarchist’ by Against me! Lately. I’m not an Anarchist, but I feel the lyrics about the my fellow spineless liberals
I think that’s why they’re floating it now. They’re getting people primed to accept someone as the replacement that they already recognize. (My money is on Kamala Harris.)
Other countries have their entire election cycles in a few months. It’s a joke to think it’s too late for Biden to drop out.
Swapping candidates would look really, really bad… unless he comes up and says “I had a talk with my doctor, he says I’ve developed a chronic condition that I didn’t know about past year. I can’t do it anymore, but here, vote for my VP, who you all already voted for once anyway, and would take over anyway if this thing kills me”.
He can leave out that the chronic condition is just notgonnawinatall, and his doctor is also his pollster.
They are disorganized and always will be because they are not a hegemon like the Republicans.
He understands the two party system we’re left with. If we don’t back the democratic candidate we will be fucked by the 30% of the population that wants Cheeto Messiah in the white house.
I’m with him 100% on the first bit - at this point, the single most important thing the Dems have to do is stop bickering.
As for the rest, at this point I don’t even much care. I can see arguments both for and against in both directions - either choice is going to involve some risk but either choice can be made to succeed.
So the important thing, and really the ONLY important thing, is to pick one and run with it. Stop with the dilly-dallying and the second-guessing and the bitching and moaning and hand-wringing and make a choice and stick with it, so we can focus ALL of our attention on pounding those fucking fascist traitors’ dicks into the dirt.
Bernie or bust!
Fucking thank you, Bernie. Glad someone with a spine said it.
I think most Dems, especially those who are highly politically engaged and closely follow election news, are going to vote blue no matter who. So, I think Bernie is preaching to the choir here. I think the Dems who are worried about Biden are worried he doesn’t have enough support among independents, and they feel independents are much less likely to just vote for the Democrat, no matter who it is.
Now, could just any candidate replace Biden and automatically win back any of the independents he is believed to have lost? I don’t know. A lot of Dems seem to think that just about any other candidate would do better than Biden among independents right now, but I’m not so sure.
I think you might be missing the point though.
Those highly politically engaged Dem voters who will vote blue no matter who are bickering about whether Biden is the right choice, and the swing voters are paying attention.
To an undecided voter, it doesn’t inspire much confident to see that Biden’s own supporters don’t think he can do the job.
The bickering amongst those who will vote blue anyway is costing the votes from the undecideds that Biden so desperately needs.
I think the other concern is voter turnout/enthusiasm. The last presidential election had extremely high turnout. Even if voters (in swing states) don’t switch candidates but opt to stay home instead that could translate into a significant electoral problem too.
You do have a point that turn out Is important, but a potential replacement candidate isn’t guaranteed to increase turn out, they could be worse. And they would only have 4 months to try to fix things, which isn’t a lot of time.
Remember, Bernie Sanders did FORTY TWO events for Hillary after she was the chosen Dem candidate. More events than even she did for her own campaign!
Then she had this to say about Bernie in her Hulu doc: https://x.com/bobby/status/1236349383890931713
Progressives need to learn this lesson: liberals will always shift the blame.
Correct
Hillary, much like Trump, is a symptom of what is wrong with the Democrats. “It was her turn” spat in the face of people who were excited about a progressive candidate and made the whole primary a sham.
She was a terrible candidate. She was a bitter pill that many independents said “enough is enough” and voted third party or not voted at all.
I am deeply concerned that as the Republicans move more toward fascism, the left are not going to have great candidates. We’re going to get established, wealthy-class friendly candidates who are willing to throw crumbs at the working class. They’ll bitch and moan about how they are losing voters, never looking at themselves, never realizing that we are literally voting to just survive.
This election will be just like 2020. We aren’t voting for Biden. We’re voting against fascism.
And I’m personally getting fucking tired of Democrats seeing that as a win.
I am deeply concerned that as the Republicans move more toward fascism, the left are not going to have great candidates
Well, the
RepublicansDemocrats will have an option of being “less fascist party” by then. I feel like the future is not too bright, somehowEdit: mixed the opposites somehow 🫠
What an ungrateful cunt. I don’t want to be in hell with that removed.
I don’t want to be in hell with that removed.
Dying to know which word got removed when “cunt” was perfectly acceptable.
Lmao…I guess lemmy.ml didn’t want to be unfair to Australians!
B I T C H but even then I could be referencing a female dog.
So, we’re allowed to say cunt but not The B Word™️?
🫡
That appears to be the case
Calling her a cunt is unfair: she lacks both the warmth and the depth
Hear hear
Oh, now I understand. She’s like, a real housewife of DC.
Hillary “I believe marriage is between a man and a woman” Clinton. Yeah. Keep on satisfying those poor, misguided progressives.
“Dont like the choices? Get over yourselves”
- Hillary like 6 months ago
Or stop bickering and replace him ASAP.
But really, I don’t think this is bickering. I think it’s an intentionally slow drip of news to get people more receptive to the idea of replacing him with Kamala, so that it’s not a bomb dropping all of a sudden, which would likely freak out a bunch of voters and cause them to lose votes. Boil the frog slowly and there’s less of a splash.
Well honestly it’s going to be a splash either way and the sooner they replace him, the better. Kamala is going to need more time to cook with and the sooner she can get out there, the sooner she can challenge Trump to a debate and flip this country around.
It’s nice to see the majority of the democrats are reasonable people and will continue backing Biden.
tbh, I don’t think reasonable people would think an 80yr old is the best fit to run a country.
These are reasonable people who at this point are faced with a choice between that 80 year old and Trump.
The Democrats could have run someone else, should have run someone else, didn’t run someone else. So those are now the two options.
The convention is a month away and plenty of time to retire the Rocinante for a better horse
He’s already has enough delegates to win the convention, as is my understanding of the odd way the Democratic party makes this decision.
Biden can announce that he is not seeking re-election. Release the delegates and it can be decided at the convention, as it officially is done. The DNC refusing to allow proper primaries makes this much messing now, but it is the only viable path forward without trump. It’s the policies and platform that are important and anyone who would vote D knows that. The left doesn’t want a king, but someone who can champion their ideals.
But a 78 year old is?
That’s not the question at hand. Trump should die in a fire, but that’s not what this is about.
That is what this is about. Because if everyone that is wanting people to not vote for the 81 year old get their way- then we’re getting the 78 year old.
THESE ARE OUR CHOICES. it’s too late in the game to call an audible.
No, it’s not too late. Biden is not even officially the democratic nominee yet, the convention hasn’t even happened yet. The rest of the world has an entire election cycle that lasts like two months. The election is still almost four months away.
The US has an election cycle that runs much longer than most other places in the world.
I’m seeing a lot of people downvoting comments that are making simple statements of fact about how the American election system works. It may not be the way people want it to work, but that’s what they’ve got. Downvoting such comments doesn’t change it.
The US does not need to, is my point. Four months is more than enough time to introduce a new candidate.
Thank you!
It’s not too late for Biden to do an official act to mar-a-lago
It is ABSOLUTELY too late.
Haha, no. Many other problems with that cesspool.
Isn’t he 81?
Yes, he’s 81. He’ll be 82 November 20th. 86 at the end of his second term if he’s re-elected.
When he’s re-elected.
It’s looking a little scary chief…
Idk it just looks like one candle at this point
Jeez, I’ve had smaller bonfires.
Wishful thinking from Bernie. For fucks sake:
politics is showmanship, not an intellectual endeavor.
I fucking hate that, but it is the immutable truth.
You NEED a charismatic leader to win. Biden needs to fuck off.
I will ALWAYS cast my vote to most effectively suppress the republican traitor filth. But Biden’s a goner.
I will ALWAYS cast my vote to most effectively suppress the republican traitor filth.
And so you’re going to vote for Biden, yes?
Yes. I think he should fuck off, but I’ll vote for him. I think he’d lose. I hope to be wrong.
It seems like the establishment is hell bent on making the choice Biden or Harris and Harris might be the only person less likely to win.
Incorrect.
You are the reason conservatives win elections, because you tell Democrats not to vote for Gore because he’s boring or Hillary because she’s ill, or Biden because he’s old.
None of these irrelevant insults are stopping these people from doing their job.
Fuck off. I voted Gore and Hillary. You’re not helping the situation by burying your head in the sand.
Don’t worry. They’re obviously gaslighting you. You undermined their entire argument and yet, they persist. How odd.
It’s what they do.
Loudly proclaiming a specific, unpopular fact is the opposite of burying my head in the sand.
You’re upset because you’ve been called out for burying your head in the sand.
The bandwagon is easy and comfortable and wrong here.
Bernie is right.
Regardless of whether or not Bernie is right, you’re very wrong and helping no one.
Bernie is right, saying the same thing I’ve been saying for months.
I’m glad you focused on me helping people though, that’s exactly what’s happening here.
Bullying works on a lot of people, but it sure slides off my back.
Vote Biden, a surprisingly progressive president that’s enacted great policies that have helped hundreds of millions of people.
Don’t worry about these conservative trolls, they’re afraid of their dwindling power.
Thanks, you accurate username you, I appreciate it!
Exactly. I cannot fucking believe he can say with a straight face that it’s not an entertainment contest. It’s the biggest American Idol contest there is and sure as shit isn’t a job interview.
I will ALWAYS cast my vote to most effectively suppress the republican traitor filth. But Biden’s a goner.
If by goner, you mean you’re not voting for him- then this is contradictory.
I will vote D no matter what.
That is terrifying to hear.
Are you making the ludicrous suggestion that the Democratic Party of 1866 is the same as the one today?
No, I’m making the suggestion that D can and has changed in the past and that supporting them blindly forever is not wise.
Biden was fighting for segregation at the end of the day. This isn’t 1866 history, the Southern Strategy happened in the 1960s
Who said forever?
The person who said nothing will change their mind?
They never said forever.
I will vote D no matter what.
Oh I’m sorry, are you saying there is a “what” to make them stop? Because they clearly said no matter what, which is blind fanaticism.
If they had said a sane remark like “I’ll vote D as long as it’s the better option” I wouldn’t have commented.
Blue MAGA is a very real phenomenon.
Imagine digging back 158 years to find an example of a Democrat being racist, and thinking you have a point.
I can’t consider voting for traitors. So repubs are off the table. I will always vote against them. They’re worthless filth.
Right but it wasn’t that long ago that D was the hardcore racist party.
To blindly support a party no matter what is not something anyone should ever do or proclaim.
I think it’s pretty obvious that if the Democratic Party changed that drastically, the person you replied to would change their opinion. They are saying that because, at present, Republicans are far, far more dangerous.
Also, Democrats have been championing civil rights since JFK. Saying 1960 was not that long ago is silly. Suffering that 1866, which is when the poster you posted was made, is not that long ago when it comes to American politics is not even rational.
So why don’t people say that instead of such extremist language like “no matter what”?
Words matter. Blindly supporting or pretending you will blindly support a shit party because the other is worse is in no way shape or form a good thing.
Unless they have eyes ears and a brain
That’s good to see. Thank you! Hopefully we can have some good things happen by next election and get someone better by then.
Right his whole life, correct here too.
He also told supporters to vote for Hillary in 2016 and Biden in 2020. But… he does tell voters to make up their own decision
And he was right both times.
I agree with all three sentiments.
All the socialist’s heads just exploded.
No, we left this lib behind a long time ago.
We’re all China-stans now.
The US might be a capitalist, colonialist country sprinkled with panderings of faux-socialism and heading towards fascism, but I would hardly call that an improvement over another capitalist-in-all-but-name, fascist, colonialist country with eroded communist foundations.
Whatever atrocities you believe the US is committing in terms of subjugating and exploiting poorer countries and its own working class, China is doing the same thing but only with a bit more subtlety.
When was the last time China invaded an oil-rich country, overthrew their government, and killed a million people?
If you want to dream up Chinese imperialism whenever China builds roads in another country, you still have to grapple with the fact that they don’t build those roads on the graves of martyrs that died trying to defend their homeland.
Considering China is allied with Russia and buys nearly half of their crude oil exports, they haven’t needed to invade other countries for oil. I’ll give you that, but at the same time, they’re also indirectly assisting and allied with a country that is happily trying to extinguish the entirety of Ukraine.
Roads and ports. With abusive conditions that all but make it impossible for the poorer countries to satisfy their terms, ultimately leading to China being free to claim the infrastructure they built on foreign soil as their own. They might not be as obvious about it as the United States, but they are still a captialist, colonialist country antithetical to communist goals.
Every global superpower does their fair share of this shit. The countries we should actually be looking up to are the socialist/communist ones that rapidly accelerated their growth and citizens’ quality of life before being destabilized by an existing global superpower (usually, the United States).
they’re also indirectly assisting and allied with a country that is happily trying to extinguish the entirety of Ukraine.
Hyperbole does not help your case.
A war to extinguish a nation looks more like what Israel is doing in Gaza. Compare the number of children, medical staff, UN aid workers, and other noncombatants that have been murdered. Compare the total eradication of all homes, businesses, universities, hospitals, religious institutions, historic sites. Russia, by contrast, is waging a war of conquest and assimilation.
All China is doing is trading with them, and not even trading weapons or munitions! It’s just normal commerce. Let’s compare again with Israel and how the US is providing it unlimited bombs and heavy equipment and fucking jets it needs to do its genocide.
When you compare the two the stark contrast makes your hyperbolic claims into a joke.
With abusive conditions that all but make it impossible for the poorer countries to satisfy their terms,
They forgive the loans they give to those poorer countries when they can’t repay and are always willing to refinance.
Compare that to the IMF which sells off public assets to private interests and imposes austerity measures onto the people, letting the US infiltrate the government and set up counter-terror operations and win exclusive trade deals to superexploit the people.
Again, compare and contrast. The US isn’t merely worse, it has different objectives. One is imperialist, one is internationalist.
Every global superpower does their fair share of this shit. The countries we should actually be looking up to are the socialist/communist ones that rapidly accelerated their growth and citizens’ quality of life before being destabilized by an existing global superpower (namely, the United States).
This is why China is the way it is. China has to ally itself with Russia and it has to wield state capitalism, or else it would end up the same as every other socialist experiment the US destroyed. If China cut off every country that US says is evil then it will lose all its allies, and then the US will just turn around and declare that the world needs to stop doing business with China.
Instead, China saw right through that, and with BRICs the dedollerization of the global economy is inevitable. The Communist Party of China has done more to destroy US imperialism than any communist party in every other country combined.
Grow up.
When was the last time the US tried to erase a people’s culture? And when was the last time China tried that? When was the second to last time China tried that? What about the third to last time?
Both countries are imperialistic in different ways. One does most of its atrocities to the citizens of other countries and one does most of its atrocities to its own citizens. Neither should be looked up to.
When was the last time the US committed cultural genocide?
When it caused one million deaths in Iraq through direct and indirect warfare for no reason. It currently has a direct hand in the genocide happening in Gaza right now.
Or how about when ICE was caught sterilizing migrant women in detention centers? They were doing that as recently as 2020, and there’s a long history of forced sterilization in the US.
Compare and contrast. Look at Gaza, look at Xinjiang province, try to spot the difference! Can you do it?
Neither should be looked up to.
There’s no other choice. You can’t just think up an idealistic imaginary third option. The US or China. Choose
There’s no other choice. You can’t just think up an idealistic imaginary third option. The US or China. Choose
There are other choices. There is no forced binary. There are around 200 countries currently in existence that you can look up to and many more past countries that no longer exist that you can look up to too. Or, like me, you can not look up to any country. The perfect system doesn’t have to be already invented and in practice. Karl Marx did not look up to any countries when creating his system.
I believe that every country currently in existence has flaws and do not look up to any of them.
Killing civilians in Iraq is evil. Killing civilians in Gaza is evil. Sterilizing people is evil. The USSR and US proxy wars were evil. Installing dictators in South America is evil. None of these, however, are an attempt to erase a culture. There is a thriving hispanic culture in the US and the US government isn’t erasing it. There are thriving sub cultures for every out-group in the US.
Not that erasing a culture is more or less evil than these things. I do not engage in the ranking of atrocities. Atrocities are atrocities and I hate them all.
Erasing the culture of the Uyghurs is also evil. Sterilizing Uyghurs is evil. Invading and erasing the culture of Tibet is evil. Erasing the culture of all of China with the cultural revolution is evil. One child policy is evil.
Removing citizens’ rights to talk freely about the government and society and protest what they dislike about them is evil. Censorship is evil. I’m in the US and I said all that about the US being evil and am not going to face any consequences and my comment will not be taken down.
Not recognizing same sex marriage is evil. Someone who claims to be queer ought to recognize that and not look up to countries which don’t recognize it.
There are other choices. There is no forced binary. There are around 200 countries currently in existence that you can look up to and many more past countries that no longer exist that you can look up to too.
Thank you! Exactly! It’s not just the US or China/Russia/NK. There are a couple hundred options, many of which are happy to coexist and aren’t vying to become the one true empire of the planet.
Aaaaaand that’s why no one takes your seriously.
Oh no, libs don’t take me seriously! 😭
Ahhh yes. This reminds me SO much of my edgy high school years. It was our little grassroots movement vs the world! And we had EVERYTHING figured out. No one could tell us that we’re wrong in any way and we had Pat Benetar to back that up!
We knew it all!
Then we grew up and realized we didn’t know shit. We found out that the world doesn’t work the way we want it to and it never will, because we aren’t the only ones that live here. Looking back, it was incredibly stupid and naive to think that life in politics were that simple.
“Just do this thing we want! It’s that easy!”
and…
“We reject your reality and replaced it with our own!”
The problem is: the rest of the world didn’t work with the reality we created for ourselves.
Man… I miss those days, but living in reality has its merits as well. One of them is being taken seriously by people regardless of whether or not I share a core political values.
I hope you get the same chances I did. But times are VERY different. You may not be afforded the luxury to have the freedoms I had come January.
Now, go on- say something edgy so everyone knows you didn’t just get wrecked.
What the fuck are you talking about? I’m siding with China. You know, the worlds second largest economy? A billion people?
Hardly a little grassroots movement. I live in the reality where China is the only serious challenge to the US. What about you?
So… you’re a non-Chinese citizen- … siding with China. That’s about as grass roots as it gets.
Do you think zero people outside of China look up to their accomplishments?
