ffs dave
I wonder when “selling out” or being called a “sell out” stopped being a thing. It happened during my lifetime for sure. Now basically everyone everywhere you look in the music business not only is one, but the public seems to not even consider it an option to not sell out, and I think most people dream of being able to be a sell out themselves so much they pardon others preemptively and almost instinctively.
But like in this case, Dave Grohl is already a multimillionaire, does he really have to further prostitute himself for Amazon cash?
they might be under contractual obligation to do what the record label says
🤷 and maybe someone was holding his dog hostage until he performed, but that pic doesn’t look like someone who is having a terrible time fulfilling his label obligations
i was never a fan anyway, couldn’t care less
I’m kind of bewildered by it, like there wasn’t any expectations but this is the sort of thing a creatively spent band would do, one of their best (imo) albums came out last year they absolutely could’ve passed on this. I’m hoping they at least put on a dogshit show, “Corporate magazines still suck” on Rolling Stone type move.
I’ve got another confession to maaake
It fell victim to the “gig economy”, now it’s less “Selling out” and more “Get that bag”
Dave is a businessman first and foremost. I wonder how Pat is dealing with this sort of shit.
It is a musician’s business to know who they are performing for and why - and the more famous they are, the more it starts to matter. Grohl knows this.
The people on here who is excusing this with “capitalism bad except when people I like is doing it” arguments is just demonstrating how empty “liberal values” get when push comes to shove.
That’s actually their manager’s business. Literally what they hire them for. And honestly, if you’re going to fault them for performing a private venue for an Amazon event, you should also fault every artist that’s ever performed in like, Vegas. Casinos have been bleeding people to death long before Amazon hit the scene.
I’m not going to fault a performer for literally doing their job and taking a fat payday. I’d probably do the same in their shoes, anybody who insists otherwise isn’t being honest with themselves.
It’s not like the rider said “play show at Amazon, these guys just laid a lot of people off and are screaming about budget cuts so they want you to play for the rest. Here’s 4 million dollars.”
It probably said “corporate event for 6-10k people. Here’s a check for 4 million dollars”
So you’re arguing that selling out any supposed values you might have is fine as long as the check is big enough.
Foo Fighters are a huge band. They aren’t at the whims of some all powerful manager. And Amazon’s crimes are not new, they’re not obscure information. They’re incredibly well known, frequently discussed, and go hand in hand with the mention of Amazon. They knew what they were doing, who they were doing it for.
Now, if you want to discuss the power that record labels and their business relationships hold and their contracts with the bands they produce, that’s a possible explanation for this. But we’re talking about aging millionaire white guys. Chances are, they had veto power, knew what they were doing and probably could’ve accepted a monetary fine from the record company for defying a contract obligation if that’s why they were being forced to do it. And, honestly, probably would’ve leaked that information, gotten a ton of great press, maybe gotten into a public dispute with the record label if they chose to speak out about it, and then cashed in on that.
But, like you said, they did it for a fat paycheck. They didn’t stick up for the well-documented abused workers of Amazon while cashing in on it — “virtue signaling,” as people say. They decided to do this. For money. From Amazon executives.
And that’s…not better.
The fact that this comes at the end of typical corporate purse string tightening at the expense of workers is really just the steaming shit nugget on top of this diarrhea sundae.
I’m arguing that you’re villainising the wrong people.
And that was me telling you your assumption of who’s at fault was way off the mark.
They’re rockstars. They knew what they were doing and made the choice themselves.
Not unlike all the excuses we’re seeing for genocide now that it’s Biden shipping the bombs over to Israel.
Have yet to see anybody ‘excusing’ it. Everybody’s just pinching their noses and sticking with him because the alternative is convicted felon Trump.
Oh they straight up deny it’s happening. Nobody tries to say it’s a genocide and it’s okay, they just deny it or deflect to talking about Trump.
Trump is not a ‘deflection’ from Biden. Trump is the only alternative, and a much worse one for pretty much everybody on the planet, even if some don’t realise it.
It is absolutely a deflection when we want Biden to stop participating in Genocide, to instead bring up Trump.
That’s not what was stated before.
Then we’re resting two different threads.
So we’re just skipping the part about the execs treating themselves to a concert after many years of union busting, horrid working conditions, innumerable other abuses, and excluding the workers. But we’re going to shit on the people they hired for a gig.
Coolcoolcoolcoolcool.
So we’re just skipping the part about the execs
No… we actually talk about Amazon’s shitfuckery a lot. Where have you been?
I’m talking about the point of the article and you know it. Which is why I have you noted as “Bad Faith”
Which is why I have you noted as “Bad Faith”
As all the liberals festering around here does. I’ll just throw this badge on the heap with the others, okay?
At the end of the day they’re people too though. And this is music, not war. There’s a pretty big gray area for “participating in capitalism does not equal approval of capitalism.”
There’s a pretty big gray area for “participating in capitalism does not equal approval of capitalism.”
That only goes for the working class - the people who are forced to participate in capitalism. Not for filthy rich musicians.
And this is music, not war.
There is no aspect of our enforced existence under capitalism that is free from it’s insidious influence - and that includes music.
Dave is making money. Don’t blame him.
I quit a company for this. We wouldn’t give our star performers raises, but they somehow managed to pull off a 7 million dollar one week party for the whole company. It would’ve been something like 100k per employee had they just handed out bonuses.
We lost a wave of talent after that and their stock dropped 80%. I’m glad I cashed out when I did.
7 million could’ve paid 100k per employee? Impressive for a 70 person company to host such an expensive party then.
Er…shit…was off by half…it was 50k an employee.
He’s not your average guy working to put food on the table lol. For someone of his status, his image being hurt from this is far more expensive than whatever they’re paying them for.
Dave is making money. Don’t blame him.
Tf kinda brain dead excuse is this?
Acting immorally is okay if you’re making money?
This is truly mind-obliterating stupidity.
My guess is that the argument is that participating in society does not equal endorsement of the system we live in. This is how musicians make money. By playing music to who pays for it.
That said, I myself am of two minds about them taking the money.
It would be easy for the Foo Fighters to not take that gig. They’re doing fine either way.
It’s also possible for musicians to take a stand for change.
It absolutely does equal endorsement.
I’ll make my life harder to avoid companies and people I don’t support.
Have a fucking backbone and stand up for what you believe in. Why should we contribute to the things we abhor?
Do you think you it’s justified perform for these people if they getting paid?
Ya… being paid to perform isn’t immoral. Honestly, I hope he took a ton of cash from Amazon for the show.
Amazon is the crowd doing evil crap. Their immorality doesn’t automatically spread to everyone they interact with. Especially, people that aren’t actually aiding their efforts. This one is corporate waste
FFs took a huge paycheck of blood money that they could’ve easily turned down. They’re in it too.
Yeah plus it’s not like they’re a new band desperate for cash and a big break - without doing any maths, I’m pretty sure Dave & Co. could easily turn down evert corpo gig that comes their way from now until forever, and still be out there living the high life.
Yes…I’m sure FF is intimately involved in Amazon internal politics. I’m sure they were made aware of every person fired to pay for their show before it was booked last year.
It’s a gig. A highly paying gig. They don’t fucking care who’s in the audience.
This is absurd. I can’t believe the amount of hate I’m seeing here. They did a gig. Fucking get over yourselves. Wow.
I’d say you need a better grip on reality, but that would imply you had one to start with
Don’t blame him because he’s just “making money”? Might as well not blame the execs with that logic. They’re also just making money, right?
With this particular concert, no, they’re spending company money (which otherwise could have gone to employees) for themselves.
Yup, this is really maximize shareholder value. I can totally see this teambuilding event doubling dividends. Wait? You said the company never pays dividends and rarely buys back its stock? Wow, I am really seeing those profits!
You break your back for pennies while they get millions a second to eat sushi off of a porn star’s back.
The funny thing is that people always forget about old money - people who don’t know what work is or what actual money is. And who see billionaires as just mere peasants.
There is a lot of old money where I grew up, and it was funny hearing about Blackrock trying to buy their properties. They would offer these people ten times the value, but old money was just “but, that’s just a little bit more money in the money bin. I have a massive house and estate to look at the peasants. Why would I bother?”
And now imagine old money in Europe. For example, the British aristocracy owns at least 30% of land in England (that’s the official number, but Land Registry doesn’t have information about who owns 15% of land at all and it is most likely owned by aristocracy as well). And England has a leasehold system. So if Blackrock would come to a king or some lord to buy some of their land, the land would be sold to them easily as a long term lease, for like 100+ years. And then Blackrock would also pay yearly rent on top of that. Because you ain’t buying shit here, dirty peasant.
Another thing to keep in mind is that old money here have their wealth for over a thousand years. They’re not simply entrenched, they’re a part of the fabric of the country itself. They have all kinds of exceptions in the laws and regulations and exist above everyone else not only in social status, but also in economic and political status as well.
People can hate the rich as much as they want, but there’s a layer in the society which doesn’t care about the existence of the rich and the poor. And they are all related to each other through centuries of strategic marriages, so basically one incredibly large family spread across the whole of Europe.
Just more for the guillotines. Still massively outnumber them.
Rookies. The real wealth gets to eat sushi off a porn star’s front!
I want this sushi dinner to be the tits, Charlie!
This is no different than seeing all of them old farts at the golf course. Taking breaks from fucking everyone underneath them over just to swing at a few holes they’ll probably be tired half way of playing.
To think this is a problem with just Amazon is silly. This is every American corporation. The executives of every major corporation in this country treat themselves very very well on company dimes while their workers all languish in starvation wages. The only way to fight this is to raise the minimum wage to something that is livable for the average worker. The government needs to force these companies to behave. They will never and I mean abso-fucking-lutely never choose to treat their workers with respect and dignity by paying them a decent living wage.
And the politicians that are in all of their pockets will never ever go against their corporate masters. The only way to make them listen is to get every single American to acknowledge that this is something that is needed and then push their politicians to do it or threaten their jobs by voting for someone else. This goes for both Democrats and Republicans, not quite equally but there’s definitely a few Democrats that need to be replaced.
True, this problem is everywhere.
Bentonville AR is being turned into a bicyclists haven. To the tune of Arkansas laws are making it that bicyclists don’t have to pay attention to traffic laws. That’s neat, wonder why… Ah. And while bicycling is one of the better things I guess billionaires can do, in the region buying bicycles are far beyond affordable anymore to a walmart wage because it’s gotten so over the top fancy, and the Waltons literally have a helicopter with a bike rack to fly out to the trails. My dad is irritated because of how often it shakes his house as it goes over.
Same city, Alice Walton had a really nice museum built in the area that was surely out of the good of her heart… Ah. Unless really local, one might not know of her nickname “Drunken Alice” where she has a history of dwi’s and wrecks, including one where someone was killed, yet somehow nothing seems to stick.
Yea… I’ve got a bit of an axe to grind with the Waltons having grown up in their personal playground, I agree with you to think this is a problem with just Amazon is ludicrous, and despite only living a state away it’s amazing to hear how people bitch about Amazon, it’s chokeholds, it’s problems, its wrecking of the country, and gives a full pass to Walmart. We live in an oligarchy.
Completely unrelated to my bitching about Walmart, but a perfect example of execs doing this nonsense and how I got in trouble because I can’t stop snarking: Worked for a medical testing facility, ran by a doctor. Said doctor buys himself a brand new shiny Lamborghini, then through the whole email has an announcement that for one day for 4 hours where any of the staff can get a picture with the Lambo and share on the company page. Now I met said doc once during training, but otherwise worked 3rd shift with two other people, he certainly never showed up when we had issues.
So when the day happened, it was one of those I commented it’s the first time I think I’m glad that 3rd shift gets ignored on any staff events. Think about it for a second, then ask the others “Who has the newest car?”, turns out was a Nissan Juke. So each of us go out and get a picture with the Juke, then sent the pictures in to where people were supposed to send in the pics with the Lambo. Turns out they got 4 pictures, the 3 with the Juke, and 1 with the Lambo. Got told by our manager said doc was pissed and to keep our heads down.
While you’re breaking your back, they’re getting paid millions to eat sushi off of a porn star’s back.
The only way to fight this is to raise the minimum wage to something that is livable for the average worker.
Then what do you do when only the Amazons and Walmarts of the world with the deepest pockets can afford that, and small business basically ceases to exist, as a result? People talk a lot about ‘if you can’t pay a livable wage you don’t deserve to be in business’, but the same people also complain about monopolies and lack of choice at the same time. How do you propose this be reconciled?
Also, no one’s ever going to be able to begin to enforce a “living wage”, even if they wanted to, until that wage is given a concrete definition–at the very least, a formula with variables to account for cost of living differences across the country. Until then, all this clamoring for a “living wage” is completely pointless.
My last job, we removed two departments and fired them all, then forced to have a “virtual retreat” to save money. Three months later, they showed a PowerPoint how this was their best year ever.
By that point, I was already looking for a new job.
Bands do gigs. Everyone needs to relax. The amount of hate I’m seeing here for one of the nicest people who’s made it in the music industry is upsetting.
Wtf does this even mean?
Essentially, if you’re nice enough you’re allowed to do something bad once in a while.
It doesn’t make sense.
The hate is proportional to the level of betrayal people feel. These people are scum(Amazon execs). Dave and the band rewarded them with a special people only concert for being extra parasitic on society. Shame is not unwarranted here.
I mean, I’m not exactly giving FF a pass here but rewarded is factually incorrect considering FF was paid to do the gig. The show wasn’t some free pat on the back for the execs doing such a great job.
True but it’s not like it was a life-changing payoff. If they didn’t do this gig they could have been paid for a regular gig.
Again, not giving them a free pass. Just pointing out the terminology used is an overstatement.
lol
Too bad the Foo Fighters are garbage, so they treated themselves to shitty music
For those not upset and see the band “just playing a gig”, what would be a line that you personally would consider too far? Would you be ok with them doing a private show for Netanyahu and his cabinet? Would a private show for Trump and his Republican lackeys be ok? How about Nestle CEO and its board, but none of its workers? Would a private show for the Proud Boys be ok if they had a “dump truck full of cash”?
I definitely agree but it still hurts, a lot.
I consider Amazon to be only average evil. Now if they did a concert for Nestle…
Personally, I’d think it would be much for impactful to play for whoever, then donate all the proceeds to some important cause. Telling e.g. Netanyahu no to a Foo Fighters concert isn’t going to make him change his mind about anything. But giving the concert will take money away from him and give it to something important.
What harm are they doing though? They’re being paid to do a private concert, not donating to their super PAC. It goes without saying that lavish spending on executives when people are being laid off is super gross, but at the end of the day I dont think the band did anything worth being chastised for.
Something about monkies with lots of bananas? Dave’s got 330 million bananas and just got a few hundred thousand more. Hoarding is only bad when people I don’t like do it.
Oh, dont get me wrong, most anyone hoarding that much wealth is an asshole by default, but theres a lot worse out there than those guys. Hell, just this year Dave BBQed for 24hrs to feed the homeless, and has done many such events over the years.
Well I guess I’ll be adding the Foo Fighters to my list of people that won’t be getting any money from me.
Does it matter? Sure it matters to me. I can sleep better knowing I’m not contributing to things I don’t agree with.
I expected better from Dave Grohl but here we are.
Obviously it’s entirely your prerogative what artists to support, but I’m having a hard time understanding how the Fighters of the Foo accepting money from rich douches changes how you feel about them. Now, if they took an Amazon record deal and wrote a bunch of garbage jingles or something, then yeah, id bail on em too. But in this case, I don’t hink theyve done anything they havent done 1000x before; Played on a stage for a few hours, shook some hands, took some photos, and went home with some extra zeroes in their bank account.
I think this is an interesting point. What if they gave a concert and a murderer attended? Should they leave if they found out who was there?
Of course it’s more personal when it’s a private concert, but this is Amazon not Gaddafi. They are kind of supporting the company, but who’s working as an Amazon executive just for the concerts? I’m sure they have free gym memberships or something too. Should the gym ban them?
It changes how I feel about them because I refuse to support people that don’t hold the same morals as me.
I’m not saying they can’t perform here, just that their actions have consequences and they have to deal with that.
Does it matter in the grand schema of things? Not at all, but I know what my beliefs are and where I want to put my money.
Perhaps one day there will be a line that is over your moral boundary and I would support your right to make that choice.
Oh, I do the same for other things and didnt mean to imply you should do anything differently, everyone has their “line”. I’m just saying maybe you dont have to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The Foo Fighters, particularly Dave Grohl, are some of the more humanitarian artists out there. Dave himself routinely puts on BBQs to feed the homeless. So considering your comment about actions having consequences, they’ve earned a little bit of wiggle room in my eyes.
But regardless, I respect ypur opinion and enjoy your weekend!
Just to carry this train of thought forward… What type of device (make/OS) did you compose this post with? Unless you found a way to pass tcp via… I don’t know… clay you dig up in your back yard, it’s pretty hard to avoid ecological damage and morally-questionable employment practices. Participating in damn near any way with any economy makes all of us complicit, and at this point all we’re arguing is to what degree makes each of us uncomfortable.
This is such weird logic. The Foo Fighters are millionaires that have a ton of leeway with what shows they do because they don’t really need more money to survive. The guy that frames houses probably isn’t working for a morally great company but that dude starves without the job.
And yet the Foo fighters and specifically Dave do benefit concerts raising millions and actually cook and feed disadvantaged people by the thousands. They also do (at last I knew) an annual multi-day trolling of the westboro Baptist church compound, which is a great thing imho.
Now, what is the measure of a man? Is it a sliding scale? Is it just the sums? Sure, that house framer has smaller sins, but does he have a smaller positive impact? Does it matter?
As I said in my last sentence, we’re all just arguing degrees.
So if we can’t completely remove ourselves from every terrible company in society we shouldn’t even try at all.
That’s pretty apathetic don’t you think.
If we can’t stop all murders, why bother prosecuting any aye.
This is way past the point for me, but I’m not a good musician or famous and part of how I draw lines may be contributing factors.
I honestly don’t care who they play for, as long as it’s not at the cost of of any regular scheduled gig.
Right? The concert is not the problem. The problem is who is paying for it/who is deserving of this (or any other) company benefit.
Though I guess there is an argument that the performers are enabling it instead of standing in solidarity. Then again, it’s entirely plausible that the performers don’t know any of these details.
I think that anything benign that separates evil people from a significant portion of their cash is fine by me. That’s millions of dollars they can’t use to break up unions, or replace human workers with AI, or pay for campaign ads (or hush money, or legal costs). And it’s not something that’s aiding them in those pursuits, so it’s generally just money they’re losing.
I think. That’s just my initial idea.
Look, I despise Amazon and Jeff bezos. I avoid Amazon and work hard to find products from retailers that aren’t Amazon storefronts. But at some point, unless you’re self-employed and completely self-sustaining, you’re 1) whoring yourself out to somebody, and 2) sucking the knob of capitalism somewhere.
All we’re left to argue is matter of degrees.
Depends on how they’re paying for it and if I could donate most of it to causes that actively oppose them. IMO it’s like buying Chicks CDs to burn them. But the money, which is the real power here, flowed in one direction that day.
Seems like it’s just fanboyism and they can’t stand that a band they care about (or at least enjoy) has sold out to the absolute worst degree. People are right in that all bands sell out to a certain point (“All you know about me is what I’ve sold ya, dumb fuck/I sold out long before you’d ever even heard my name/I sold my soul to make a record, dipshit/And then you bought one” – Hooker with a Penis, Tool), but when you specifically accept a gig that is just some elitist executive party for a company that treats its employees like shit, you’ve gone too far.
Fuck the Foos. And stop making it political (“lol, liberals”) – bullshit, this is just rampant band fanboyism.
Bands who break through walls with speakers
Not just try to sell you sneakers
You want bands who wanna sell you things
Or bands who wanna tell you things?
- Jeffery Lewis and the Rain, WWPRD
One of the last punk dudes still making a statement instead of doing shows for 50 year old execs.
And stop making it political
It’s political because caring about people who aren’t rich is political.
The fact that you think it’s a certain side that does this is the only reason you think it’s political. And you’re wrong about it.
The ruling class needs a very poignant reminder that their perceived value is entirely manufactured by the working class, on whose shoulders they stand. These people have no real value if the people they exploit are able exert their own agency.
Fuck these parasites. And as a matter of course, fuck the foo fighters.
Yeah, call me when consequences actually happen.
Oh look everyone it’s part of the problem.
Oh well see that would actually require communication and commitment.
We don’t do that. Something about needing that job that they definitely won’t pull out from under us to pay those bills that never go up.
We have to all work together to give those consequences. Workers need to act as a united force to push back against the ruling class. Checking out hurt the movement. Help us show them the consequences.
History has a way of repeating itself. Best we can hope for is a soft reset. It will always be this way until human avarice is somehow ejected from our genome.
Most of the people in those concerts are employed. They’ll have stock with Amazon, as does everyone working for Amazon on a full time, permanent contract.
You do realise Amazon is a public company, don’t you? If your country allows fractional shares, you could become an owner of Amazon for £10.
Is the “ruling class” anyone who has a report at Amazon?
Bayer is solving it a different way: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pharmaceutical-giant-bayer-getting-rid-111358398.html
Bayer is one of the evilst companies in the world. Responsible for millions of deaths from AIDS
The song “Dr. Aiden” by B.o.B. talks about this. I think it’s a good song.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
They aren’t “solving it”, yet. They’re desperate to do something to wake up the stock and for investors to have some, any belief in the future of the business.
Whether they’re actually solving anything remains to be seen.
It’ll be very amusing to see that company to go down in flames.
WWRATMD
… With a pocket full of shells.
Probably not what they tell them
I can’t find much about this gig online, but the Setlist.fm page lists this as a ‘private event’ for Amazon Web Services.
AWS is not the part of Amazon where employees have to piss in bottles. It’s their cloud hosting subsidiary, and the most profitable part of the company. I also can’t find any mention that it’s just the executives of AWS either. It seems more likely to me that this would have been open to the employees of AWS in general as it is the most profitable part of Amazon and the crowd in the pictures seems quite big if it were only made up of ‘AWS executives who like the Foo Fighters’.
The article says what part of Amazon it was for. It’s for logistics, not AWS, which is a separate division.
Its a yearly event that collect directors and above fork across the company to a week long “convention” that is supposed to be about building cohesive between leadership.
The author went in 2022, when they had bon jovi play, and said it was just a boozy networking event where leadership was dictated to by the execs with no actual exchange of ideas.
In 2022, Amazon made a record profits, but even then they were admonished to save money. Still, no layoffs.
This year? They also made record profits, but had record layoffs, yet the party goes on.
The authors overall point is that Amazon is successful by asking people to “lean in,” to go the extra mile. When you freeze wates and layoff 10,000s of thousands while threatening more and still throw you 10 million dollar party for yourself, you are telling good people to not only leave, but to lean right the fuck out before they do.
The only way this gig is ethically justifiable is if the support act is a guillotine.
Rage Against the Machine doing this concert would just be Tom Morello beating every one of them to death with his guitar.
I’d pay for that. Let’s start a Kickstarter.
no hed be doing the same as foo fighters actually. playing a gig
Someone hasn’t heard the Tom Morello don’t you know who I am story haha
no but i did hear of the rage against the machine charging outragelously high prices story
They charged outrageous prices for their last tour. I never cared for them, so it didn’t impact me.
