The theory is simple: instead of buying a household item or a piece of clothing or some equipment you might use once or twice, you take it out and return it.
Renting stuff makes sense, but there are still lots of inherent problems with tool libraries and the like.
They’re great for a carpet shampooer or chainsaw you need once a year, but if you actually want to fix and build stuff around the home then booking a tool, taking perfect measurements, hauling your stuff over to a tool library, building it, hauling everything back home to check it, is simply an infeasibly onerous process. The instant you make a mistake and need a different tool, or check a measurement, etc, you’re wasting hours of time, which is most often the biggest limiter for home projects anyways.
You also don’t get to learn on the same tool and build up instincts and understanding of how it behaves.
You had it, then you lost it. It’s for those things you need only once a year or two years or never again.
Libraries of things should be state run and free at point of use. They should also be integrated into communities in a way that makes them easy to access. Instead of everyone having a lawn mower, you check out an electric mower once a week, on a date that you’ve reserved it, and the entire community uses it, or if in a large community, your immediate neighbors use it, and then it’s returned for the next people to use it.
Libraries of things should not only be for things you use once a year. They should be for just about everything that you don’t use every day.
Usafruct >>>>>> UsusFructisAbusus.
I don’t see how going to the library is such a big hurdle? The closest library to me is less than ten minutes drive, and on the way to a lot of stuff. I don’t know this seems like a kind of insane objection. If you’re poor, it’s not like you’re just gonna spend $200 on a new tool anyway because you can’t. In my experience I’m more likely to just try to make do with the crappy alternative I have available.
This take just seems really privileged. The biggest barrier for a lot of people isn’t the time - it’s affording the tools in the first place.
I think you ahve a fundamental misunderstanding on how the tool libraries and stuff work…
I’m conflating a tool library and a maker space but the same issues apply to both. Either way, for home projects you end up with a whole lot of extra transportation.
None of this was about a maker space either
Cool beans bro, learn how to read a full comment and you’d see the part where it doesn’t matter since theyre basically the same and have the same drawbacks.
No, conflating them doesn’t make any sense. You bring home the tool from the tool library, and you bring it back when you’re done. It’s one extra trip vs. going to the hardware store to buy the tool. The concerns about mismeasurements and extra trips don’t apply.
You’d have a point if the thread were about maker spaces, I’ll give you that. As it stands, though, I’d say your concerns are misdirected.
You cut the first piece, realize you actually need a different type of saw for the next cut, it’s booked out, now your project is indefinitely delayed.
They are similar because in both cases you are sacrificing resiliency (multiple copies of a resource), for efficiency (a singular shared copy).
A tool library is still a great idea / resource for when you’re doing a project and need one weird tool that youll never use again, but most people who do any real amount of DIY over their lives will want their own set of tools that cover most of the bases.
Counterpoint: You go to the store to buy the saw you think you’ll need, come home, cut the first piece – boom, same realization. Same time-sink to go back to the store. I don’t think that’s a concern unique to tool libs.
need one weird tool
Well, yeah. We’re talking more expensive things that you only need for one project, or maybe a couple of times. Not the screwdriver set that you use for everything from box-cutting to adjusting the screws on your cabinet doors when they seem wonky.
I mean if you’re trying to learn to be a competent handyman or build a bookcase maybe yeah, but I just need a screwdriver set for like 30 minutes to put something together.
Now a multi screwdriver is something you can buy.
There’s a company in Brentwood Tennessee and online that rents very expensive camera lenses.
So you can borrow a $3000 lens for say $200 for a week.
Many of the libraries in my area have all kinds of rental things you can check out! Books, audiobooks, music, video games and movies of course. But they also have a whole tools and homegoods section. Need a weirdly shaped pan for a 1-time birthday cake? Check it out and return it when you’re done. Need a drill to hang shelves in your new apartment? Same thing. It’s pretty awesome. For me personally I love to bake, but I simply do not have room for every type of pan. I only make angelfood cake once a year or so, and those pans are huge. I just use the library one and then I don’t have to store the thing all year!
If you haven’t been to your local library in years, you should make a trip there. You might be surprised what they have these days!
There is a “tool library” sort of service (for profit) operating in my area. The prices are absurd—people are charging like $20/day for a tool that would cost $100 new, or half that used on craigslist. My projects often span multiple days, especially if there’s an unforeseen delay—which there always is because I’m a good engineer but a shitty carpenter.
I don’t use the service. I’m all for communal ownership but it still has to make sense.
Hopefully you have an actually competent and accurately-priced makerspace near.
Rent-to-Own has always been a scam predicated on people too poor to enjoy a stable life.
There is a “tool library” sort of service (for profit)
Wait I am confused
library
Alright got it.
(for profit)
What
Ok….Why is everybody using the world “library” like it is an even remotely compatible concept with a for profit rental business??!
Is this just capitalism trying to purposefully destroy any meaning behind the word “library”?.
If your service is to rent tools out to places you are a tool rental company not a “tool library”. You would be a tool library if you were a community governed non-profit that let people borrow tools for essentially no money.
sigh it makes me so cynical how clearly libraries would never have been allowed to exist in a time as nauseatingly conservative and capitalist as this if they weren’t already old and boring concepts, the media, corporations, centrist democrats and republicans would all lose their mind about libraries being too radical of a concept if a leftist proposed them as an idea now.
:(
It’s a for-profit service that people use to rent-out, and rent-in their tools. Not a true library so to speak but seeks to accomplish the same. Except that people charging $20/day to rent their battery-powered Ryobi drill is absurd.
Note that the featured rate in the article is “Another rented a planer at £11 a day to fix two doors in her flat after being quoted £245 for a handyman to come in and do the three hour job”.
quoted £245 for a handyman to come in and do the three hour job
Power tools, hand tools, clothes, batteries, heavy painters cothes, gloves etc… do not make the job.
The skill of the handyman who can quickly and efficiently deduce an effective solution (described vaguely by a couple of photos and a description over the phone by someone who doesn’t know shit about the problem they need solved) to a carpentry/handyman repair and do it within 3 hours is what makes the job.
People often make the point about learning home repair as a way to save money, and true it definitely is a necessary skill to some degree as a home owner unless you have a lotttt of money… but learning to do your own home repair really isn’t “saving money” so much as simultaneously devaluing your free time AND labor time to the point that all of the incurred debt is inscribed into your body and lost time with your family or friends rather than in invoices for repairman. This leaves me hesitant to call doing a significant portion of home renovation yourself ON TOP of holding down a full time job “saving” anything even if it helps keeps monetary expenses down.
It’s not a fair comparison then is it? $80/hr is an expensive but not outrageously so handyman, plus they have their own tools to purchase and maintain and other business operating overhead (fuel and transportation maintenance) etc.
DIY—if you’re able—is always less expensive.
It’s a for-profit service that people use to rent-out, and rent-in their tools
So yes this is the same old shit as labeling Uber or Lyft a “ridesharing app” instead of calling it what it is, a taxi service.
The correct name for this type of entity would be a consignment & rental store.
This kind of thing has NOTHING to do with libraries whatsoever in structure but more importantly in intended function and community impact.
Agreed.
What the fuck is this rent-a-center propaganda?
How stupid are we?
Stupid enough to wake up in this world. It didn’t happen in one day.
Pretty dumb. I thought this would be about lending libraries -_-
Tf are both you talking about. The article talks about Tool Libraries and The Library of Thing at length. It name drops a few subscription services for reused baby clothes and kids toys but those are still temporary items people need.
Rent-a-centers core business model consists of predatory loans for household appliances that you need continuously. This article talks about rentals for things you only need for a short period of time.
Subscriptions are just as predatory. I won’t applaud them.
There is a tool library near me and it is $45/yr. It’s amazing. These are really good services and this comment section has no idea what it’s talking about.
Hmm. It sounds to me you just don’t want to acknowledge when you’re being taken for a ride.
But hey, to each their own.
Businesses want a lifeline to our wallets, which is why subscriptions and renting are pushed on useful idiots.
“We can share books if you pay me to maintain the book sharing system via a non optional tax.” Universally loved system.
“We can share tools if you pay me to maintain those tools via a non optional tax.” A niche program most libraries have.
“We can share tools if you pay me to maintain those tools via an subscription where I have a profit incentive.” Literally 1984 and late stage capitalism.
Yep.
I feel like digital software subscriptions have stigmatized subscriptions in general. Subscriptions are great for things that require constant investment to be meaningful. One subscribes to news and receive constant reporting on the latest news; one subscribes to a tool library and get access to nearly every tool one can need. Plus a large part of the article is about non-profit libraries anyway.
The problem is that you’re renting access to something you’re not actually consuming.
Once you stop paying, you lose access and have nothing to show for it. They still have your money, though.
This is different than, say, paying for electricity which is consumed and no longer available for either party after consumption.
Sorry bud, you’re defending being scammed.
Plus a large part of the article is about non-profit libraries anyway.
Nice talking point just to cover your bum from shilling.
They can be, sure, but they can also be a really good deal. If I know I’ll need a certain amount of something on a fixed schedule, I can subscribe to it and save money. This helps reduce costs for suppliers because they have a better idea of how much stock they need on hand, so they’ll want to encourage you to subscribe with discounts.
Subscriptions are bad when there’s some form of lock-in, such as a fee for breaking the subscription, or if the cost is arbitrarily high without the subscription because of a lack of competition. I dislike digital subscriptions in general because of this, since you’ll lose access to all of the content you’ve enjoyed to that point.
But subscriptions to consumables are fine by me.
Everything as subscription.
Yeah it is seem to be cheap now, until you become dependent on it.
On the flip side, when you lost your job, cancel your home subscription and become homeless.
Oh, I assumed this article was going to be about public libraries. Often public libraries will have things for checkout, like gardening or cooking equipment. Yeah, this is somewhat distopian. These companies will probably make bank off of this. It should be public. We need a larger library system for much more things.
I remember when corner stores rented DVDs, this could be another business for them. But…since they haven’t adopted it I guess it really isn’t that profitable. Power tool prices have come down in price and size.
Not sure I agree that it’s dystopian. Imagine how much less waste there would be. People with less crowded storage/garages/houses with less junk they use rarely. Like, I have this scroll saw I’ve used for like one project. Why the fuck do I own this thing?
Reduce. Reuse. Recycle.
I guess so, but I just see this going in the direction of not wining anything and needing a subscription service. They end up costing a lot more and nearly killing off alternatives.
We need a larger library system for much more things.
Private Equity goes REEEEEE!
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What could go wrong with depending on such a service? The things up for rental here are only things that have to be frequently changed or used just once or twice. I don’t expect to subscribe to more permanent things as part of the expansion of tool rentals. Yes, some like Adobe have already adopted subscription for permanenty things, but that’s different from this topic.
As a Dutchman, do other countries not have rental places everywhere? Over here every diy store has a rental department, I’d guess this is universal?
I learned a lot about your country during the pan when I started listening to the Dutch News Podcast. You had some wild stuff going on and I got to learn about another culture. But I haven’t been turning in lately. Life got busier again. Cheers! Oh, and when a German asks you for something, tell them to first give you back your bike once for me!
We do have rentals, but they’re more for large things that you’d use once and never again. Paint sprayers, giant floor sanders, etc.
They don’t rent things like table saws, thickness planers, etc, which would fall into weekend warrior kind of tools. They want you to buy those.
Home improvement stores and autoparts stores will rent out tools for home projects or automotive projects. Looking at my library they also offer kitchen stuff, arts and crafts, 3d printing, board games and a ton more. I have no idea where you’d rent that kind of stuff here in the US.
There always have been some around. Not all diy stores have one but there is always one near from what I’ve seen. People keep discovering them and thinking they are new.
What would you search for to find one in your area?
In North America you don’t see many home improvement stores downtown where people are most likely to rent.
Most Lowe’s, Home Depots, etc so have tool rental options, but they’re located out in the burbs where land is cheap and everyone has space to store tools.
“You will own nothing and like it”
Yeah, that’s how libraries work.
Libraries don’t cost.
My library has a power tools wing. Also a seasonal seeds section. They have gotten very fancy.
Wait for real? Free seeds? That’s rad!
Definitely. A couple of the librarians have been like family friends for I don’t know how long anymore, and they keep adding new programs. I keep hearing from them how things are not great at our library (things aren’t great at libraries anywhere I hear), but then they keep spearheading projects like the tool and seed libraries, getting them added, and I can’t help but think our local library is one of the better ones. We don’t have 3d printing but I hope we will soon.
Well that’s just not true…
You pay for them through taxes.
Taxes are a cost.
It’s interesting how individualism and socialism interact with each other, and how a degree of the latter can promote the former.
I’m so down for this for items that I don’t need indefinitely. It reduces waste.
It also allows people to use much higher quality products. She’s pulling a power tool out in the picture and goddamn, there’s some garbage tools out there, even from quality brands.
When I was a kid in the late 80s/early 90s, we had a toy-library across from our house. You could rent all kinds of toys for a week, extend if needed, and return it when the kids got bored with it. Good times.
They also had LEGO, and every piece had to be accounted for on return.
They went out of business when people started buying their own GameBoys and PlayStations.
We had a rental thing for toys in our old neighbourhood, but you paid for it with currency made from helping at the nearby petting zoo.
My public library had toys for rent when I was a kid. You could check out Teddy Ruskpin and Power Wheels and full sets of sports equipment to use in the park next door. Then the neighborhood got hit by the late 80s financial crisis and the program was cut. And then they spent an enormous amount of money on a computer lab. And then an Adult Learning Center. And then they decided too many poor people were near the library, making it unsafe, so people stopped bringing their kids there. And then it got defunded. And now its abandoned.
Libraries used to have all sorts of cool high end shit in them. Now they’re so heavily deferred on maintenance that people don’t feel safe working inside.
Real shit.
The USA has been going backwards for some time now. I’m not even some Chinese simp or very political (I made an account on .ml before I even knew what I was doing) but it’s impressive how far they have advanced over the last 20-30 years and how the USA has just stagnated or regressed.
I’m not even some Chinese simp or very political (I made an account on .ml before I even knew what I was doing) but it’s impressive how far they have advanced over the last 20-30 years and how the USA has just stagnated or regressed.
The Chinese had a ton of catching up to do after WW2. So the first major industrializations in nearly a century are going to hit different than what Americans were trying to do at the bleeding economic edge.
But the mismanagement of the American economy has been glaring. Trillions into a series of disastrous wars. A desperate clutching to legacy ICE, long past its expiration date. De-investment in education, in health care, and in mass transit infrastructure. Financialization run amuck, to the point that fictitious speculative assets are outpacing the value of real capital and estates. Stagnant wages. Declining living standards. Police violence from coast to coast that seems to worsen with each new administration.
Now that the US and China are roughly on par technologically, there’s no strong reason for China to continue to outpace the US. Certainly, they’ve come down quite a bit from the heyday of double-digit annual growth figures. And we’ve got ample opportunity for domestic investment in a country that’s needed an infrastructure overhaul since the turn of the 21st century.
But nationalism is like rooting for your local baseball team. It doesn’t matter how bad the Yankees are doing this season. You wave that fucking pennant or you get your ass back to Boston.
36 GBP a month for 10 items of kids clothes? That’s 432 GBP a year. I’d think you could easily buy many more than 10 items of clothes for that amount and other than kids under 3 I don’t think you’d need to replace them more than annually.
The subscription’s 10 items per month, not per year, and return the next month. Babies outgrow really quickly when they’re young.
According to Or Collective’s website, I have saved £640 over the past two months. Not that I would have ever spent that much - the clothes I borrow from brands such as Bobo Choses and Tinycottons are much pricier than I’d ever be able to justify, which is part of the service’s appeal. My daughter is far better dressed than I am as a result. That said, you can buy them at a reduced price if you become particularly attached.
This sounds neat until it’s run for profit.
So, the key is to run your business for loss. Wait, that’s called a charity, not a business. How is this thing supposed to work?
Libraries don’t make a profit, AFAIK. Non-profits and co-ops are things too.
How would that ruin it?
In a purely profit business, you price things based on how much people are willing to pay for them.
That translates into things never being priced as being “worth it”, but almost worth it, and definitely not worth it for people with tighter budget
Modest profit isn’t an issue, but most businesses of more than a certain size accumulate MBAs like some kind of parasitic fungus. They then proceed to wring out as much money as possible in the short term while destroying the business in the long term.
If it’s just a local guy making 5% or so a year off his one rental shop, that’s no problem.
Yeah pretty much. There are behaviors that are profitable but not good for the community.
Competition solves this.
The problem is maintaining competition. Another thing those MBAs salivate over is the idea of buying out the competition, and their squeeze-the-company-dry method can give them just enough money for just long enough to buy a competing business to run into the ground when the original one starts to give out. Like I said, parasitic fungus: move to a new host as the old one dies. Keeping them from spreading can only be accomplished by stronger government regulation than many people seem willing to see in place, alas.
There is a business in my town. There’s probably one like it in your town. They rent power equipment. Anything from pressure washers to bobcats to bouncy castles. And as a man who has needed to drill precisely 8 holes into a concrete slab in 37 years, there is a genuine value proposition in renting a hammer drill for an afternoon compared to buying one.
Rentals seem extremely expensive in my area. $100/day for a shitty 4" wood chipper, $300/day for 6" chipper. For some tools, it’s often about the same price or cheaper to buy a tool from Harbor Freight than to rent.
same price or cheaper
Ah, but is it? A quick search shows wood chippers ranging from $400 to $2400. If they’re renting out the $400 model, yeah, you come out ahead by buying even if you’re only chipping things on two weekends (and you could resell on craigslist or something).
But if they’re renting out a $2000 model, I’m not sure how fair it is to compare to the $400 model (I’m not a wood chipper expert).
Wood chippers might be a bad example. I’d think if you need one, you need one multiple times – chipping branches every fall at a cabin, things like that.
But overall, yeah, you make a good point that the rental prices can change the tipping point in rent vs. buy.
Sorry, I was unclear. Chippers are not the tools I was thinking of that would be cheaper to buy (a low quality version of) than rent. Was thinking more about stuff like torque wrenches and rotary hammers. Chipper rental prices were just one thing I was looking at recently that seemed way out of line with what other people from other regions were paying.
Ha, fair enough. Yeah, a quick search shows low-end torque wrenches available for like $25. It’s hard to see a rental making sense at that scale.
We’ve got this & a local option!
This week’s rental for me:
- hammer chisel, 24h, about $70 canadian.
- E20 excavator, 8h runtime but over the weekend, around $500 with delivery and fuel
Not going to buy those things or pay someone to operate them. It’s a good deal.
There’s a local store that rents outdoors gear (climbing stuff, camping supplies etc), it’s for profit and it’s great. Would be way cooler if it were a library, but the local business is totally affordable and easy.
I’ve used it several times. My friends and I plan an outing and plan supply pickup/dropoff as part of the outing.
ok this is an amazing idea
Always check your public library. The ones in m area have these which cost you nothing to use because they are supported as public services.
Always support public libraries.
Always support your public libraries, and watch out for companies that want to take this over:
https://fair.org/home/a-for-profit-company-is-trying-to-privatize-as-many-public-libraries-as-they-can/Yep, our library has a 3D printer and they’ll make anything you want for a very low cost, like a couple dollars. I’ve never tried but I want to. What should I ask them to make? Any suggestions?
Ultra specific storage cubbies for your favorite 5 tools. Label tags. Cabinet door knobs. Print in place toy cars with rolling wheels and doors that open. Compliant mechanisms. A coin sorting device. If they can print flexible things, phone cases.
Do not expect anything 3d printed to be food safe.
Go to printables.com or thingiverse.com (I personally prefer printables) search for whatever your hobby is. And print something for that.
A 3D printer
you joke but i think you can 3d print nearly everything in a 3d printer
To wit: RepRap
Having built a number of Repraps, “nearly everything” is highly exaggerated. I have seen 3D printers with an almost entirely printed frame, but using off the shelf T slot rails is a lot more time and cost effective.
It is currently not possible to print the control board, wiring, sensors, hot end, motors, heaters, bearings, slides and rails necessary for a 3D printer. Some of the mechanical parts and a lot of the bracketry that holds the frame together can be 3D printed.
The Prusa brand printers are printed by their own printer models and sold that way.
It’s free reel estate.
You can make nice little self watering pots with a 3d printer and the right filament.
Those extending swords are really fun.
There are also 3d puzzles you can make.
You can also print models you’d like to paint as minis. You just need the model, sandpaper, primer and some paint.
These are great ideas! Maybe I’ll do a set of Chess pieces 🤔
You can search through here and make something that looks interesting to you
A car
What kind of car? Is there a specific car model that has a render ready for printing?
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:476016
I know it’s just an STL of a scale model, but actually printing a real car wouldn’t be cheap in the slightest.
You wouldn’t download a car.
Only people of a certain age will get this lol
That’s all of us here 😂
It’s not a big 🚛, it’s a series of tubes
Take a look at your hobbies and go on Etsy to find accessories for them. High chance is someone is making and selling a 3D printed item.
For example, an Apple Air tag case/holder for your bike.
It helped me to know that checking out items helps the library.
I always thought of it as being a consumer of library resources, but the fact that the books/movies/library of things items are being checked out helps them prove that their services are useful to the community.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Warm coats, swimming costumes, sleepsuits, sandals – all can be borrowed for a monthly subscription from any number of services such as Bundlee, Lullaloop and thelittleloop, amongst others.
Clothes rental for children is one of the latest chapters in how “libraries of things” are becoming an increasingly common way to save money, space and waste.
“In summer we see a lot more garden items being used: strimmers, hedge trimmers, lawn mowers, tents for adventuring, ice cream makers and gazebos for barbecues,” says Trevalyan.
“Our data shows we’re increasingly opting to shop second-hand, or rent items for a short period of time, rather than buying outright.
Not that I would have ever spent that much - the clothes I borrow from brands such as Bobo Choses and Tinycottons are much pricier than I’d ever be able to justify, which is part of the service’s appeal.
Meanwhile, companies such as Baboodle let you hire bulky equipment - for example, travel cots, bouncers, buggies and high chairs - so that after a few months of use, you won’t need to buy a semi-detached home with a garage to store it all.
The original article contains 873 words, the summary contains 188 words. Saved 78%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
This is a terrible summary, it feels like you just summarized the first 3 paragraphs.
It’s good enough for its method: selecting sentences from the article using some mystery algorithm without any use of machine learning
The issue with renting is, of course, just like apartments (or flats if you will), the producers of the items will see the opportunity to inflate the retail costs of the items, the more they see their sales dip due to renting, which will make the price of renting the equipment greater … and so it goes
Not exactly. The type of rental discussed in the article is short term, not long term like an apartment.
Also, there will probably be a response in the industry, but it could end up being better overall. For instance, an appliance may end up being designed more for repair and have a longer design lifespan as there are fewer, but more educated, consumers of the appliances. I would expect a steam cleaner that has to run two times a week to be more expensive than one that has to run two times a year.
Also, there will probably be a response in the industry,
I dunno. There have been tool rental places with pro level tools for a very long time, and the tool manufacturers don’t seem to have reacted to stop it.
I don’t really see a problem with a model of companies creating fewer, more durable/expensive items that everyone can share.
Better for the environment anyway.
There are pros and cons to both. Sometimes you should rent, others buy. If you use it every day then buying is often best. If you need it once a decade then rent.
Yes there are pros and cons to both, but that does not mean they are the same or equal.
Renting inherently adds an extra middleman to the process, (someone still has to buy it), who is incentivized to rent-seek and drain everyone from as much of their money as possible.
Renting really only works in scenarios where you have a bunch of different rental companies to drive down costs, but now you’re starting to get back to the original problem of duplicating everything.
This is an interesting thought angle, thanks for sharing! Given the conditions you’ve stated, why haven’t books inflated in price given the abundance of libraries in developed worlds?
Libraries are non profits, everyone who works there just gets paid a wage, no one makes more money if libraries make more money.
Or from a systemic standpoint, the library system is effectively separate from the capitalist system we use for distributing everything else. In capitalism if you have no competition you raise prices so you get richer, so functioning capitalism requires multiple copies of everything and a lot of redundancy all actively competing. The library being non-profit sidesteps that effect.
Only if there is a monoboly in place. If there is a market then when they raise rents you just go elsewhere. Since these are items rented by the day it isn’t hard to go elslwhere in the city.
A lot of these are non-profit or literally extensions of a public library. My public library has a “Library of Things” that costs as much as it does to check out a book. Free, with late fees if you return it late. It doesn’t go as far as expensive power tools, but it has some basic stuff folks might need from time to time, like a basic toolkit.
Yes, private, profit-oriented ones will increase prices to increase profits, but thankfully not all of these are rooted in that.
