I’m not yet convinced that “violating the unix philosophy” is a bad thing. I’m not saying that it’s not, I don’t have a defined opinion about this yet
I’m gonna fuck up my desktop now breaking away from systemd
Yeah, I would switch off, but it just doesn’t seem worth the effort for something I rarely interact with.
If it’s providing you the functionality you want using an overhead you’re fine with, there’s no reason to change it.
Which one looks more enterprisey and ensure your job security?
your job security
I think I finally understand why systemd bots defend their init system so aggressively.
I’m using Debian without ever having been involved in the init-wars. What’s wrong with Systemd and why should i not use it?
If you’ve never had a reason to not use it, then it’s fine to continue using it. Systemd has been shown to be more or less stable, fast, and secure. The reason I don’t like it is because it makes simple things really complicated. Some examples:
- The meme
- u/phoenixz@lemmy.ca example with sshd
- Distros that use systemd init also seems to prefer using other systemd components as well. So you can get caught in weird situations where one task is spread across two different systems (e.g. systemd timers vs cron, systemd-elogind vs acpid)
If none of these sound familiar, then switching to a non-systemd distro likely won’t make your life easier. But if you do, then it might be worth considering.
I’d like to know too, a ELI5 version if possible. Somethingsomething monolithic, but what does that actually mean for me as an end user?
In my personal opinion, correct me if I’m wrong:
Systemd was created to replace the init system, then through extreme scope creep took over way more than wanted and needed, the main developer was “problematic” to say it politically correct, and in practice it has over complicated many super easy tasks to the point that I hate it. Other init systems were intuitive, systemd is all but.
Few weeks ago I setup a systemd server ssh server. Changing the port would be 5 seconds in changing a line in the sshd config, but now with the new and improved systemd I need to follow some nightmare documentation into creating systemd files in unrelated places and reload configs or something and I’m done with it
And people who like systemd just thought of the first part of the answer which is exactly what the asker ended up doing.
Which is basically the same as the runit way while putting everything in the user’s directory.
Big news (from 2017): debian held back software features because someone doesn’t like the new way of doing things. Let’s blame systemd for this unprecedented case.
What’s wrong with giving access to the specific sudo command, as suggested in the other answers?
I’m out of the loop. The answer that references “one person’s personal opinion” is from 2017, and the context it links to is from 2016. Surely things have changed since then, right?
… Right?
(I’m genuinely asking, I’ve got no idea)
Edit: I just checked on Linux Mint 21.3. It’s still on the same version as back then, 0.105. Well, Debian is nothing if not sable!
Bookworm looks to be on version 122, so as downstream distros update to newer Debian versions, it should be updated now
Mint 21.3 is based on Debian Bookworm (via Ubuntu 22.04, not counting LMDE of course). I don’t know what you’re looking at and I also don’t fully know how this works, but what you said doesn’t seem to be the case.
Ubuntu 22.04 is long before Bookworm
It looks like Ubuntu pulled in Bookworm’s version in 23.10
If Mint is sticking to LTS Ubuntu versions, it will get it whenever it rebases on top of Ubuntu 24.04
Edit: Debian (Bookworm) polkitd version 122: https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/polkitd
Ubuntu 22.04 polkitd version 105: https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/polkitd
Ubuntu 24.04 pre-release polkitd version 124: https://packages.ubuntu.com/noble/polkitd
Very well, you seem to definitely know this stuff better than me! I based my comment on this answer and getting this myself on Mint 21.3:
$ cat /etc/debian_version bookworm/sidBut reading a bit closer, I think this is the key part:
That’s how, for example, Ubuntu 20.04, released in April 2020, can be based on Debian 11 “Bullseye”, which was released in August 2021.
So Ubuntu probably pulled Bookworm before it was released, and before it upgraded policykit. But it’s still to some extent based on Bookworm. Does that sound right?
Yeah, Ubuntu pulls in the development version of Debian
“Sid” is the unstable name for Debian - where packages are being tested for the next release
Debian Bookworm was released 2023
Ubuntu LTS and Debian have tended to release on a two year cadence offset by a year
- Debian Stretch (2017)
- Ubuntu 18.04 (2018)
- Debian Buster (2019)
- Ubuntu 20.04 (2020)
- Debian Bullseye (2021)
- Ubuntu 22.04 (2022)
- Debian Bookworm (2023)
- Ubuntu 24.04 (2024)
systemd is for the weak. red hat and lennart are just shit.
I don’t support calling people who volunteer their time to develop free software “just shit”, but I can’t help but agree at least a little bit about redhat. Redhat is kind of like Richard Nixon: if you just assume that eveything you dislike is their fault, you would be right surprisingly often.
- “Predictable” interface naming
- avahi
- dbus
That being said, they did also contribute to a lot of kickass software, from btrfs to Firefox to linux namespaces to qemu to pipewire, as well as to software that you can’t really live without like glibc or gdb. So I guess the converse also holds: if you just assume that everything you like is there thanks to redhat, you would be correct pretty often as well. Can’t really say that about Nixon though.
hitler built the autobahn. enough to not call him shit? doubt that.
what lennart and red hat have done is just terrible.
And how do you do this in gnu shepherd?
You don’t!
Is it r-unit, or run-it?
I’ve read it as r-unit for so long and now I’ve only just realised that run-it makes far more sense
Someone is asking the important questions
lol I’ve been pronouncing nginx as “enn-jinx” for so long before I learned that it was “engine-ex”.
he’s trying to run the service as a user without run sudo, good luck trying that with runit
Maybe its a root shell?
he don’t want to log as root, so a root shell isn’t what he want
Haters gonna hate
Correct. I fucking hate systemd.
Ok, just stop complaining. Almost everyone else disagrees and most of the community doesn’t even know that there is a different init system. Systemd was widely accepted 6 years ago and we have moved on.
The good news is that you don’t have to use it. The bad news is pretty much everyone expects you to be using it.
I shan’t.
Don’t bother arguing with systemd bots. They spent time and effort learning the ins and outs of their overcomplicated init system, so naturally when someone suggests that there is a simpler solution, they interpret it as a personal attack.
Does resolve.d let me use DHCP address with a manually set DNS server yet?
netwok and resolve d are cancer
How is chown-R someuser different from systemctl—user?
one is giving the permission to manage the system service to a specific user, the other is running the service as the current user so they have permission to manage it by default
Runit, making systems easily pwnable since 2004 🎉
- Step 1: Make a system service run as root
- Step 2: Give service a runlevel that starts it at boot
- Step 3: Make the file modifiable by a normal user
- Step 4: ???
- Step 5: pwned
Wow much philosopy. Is great. Incredible chievement. Very pressive!
