Image description:
Shopping for a laptop as a Linux user:
Screenshot from the Simpsons where Otto is talking to Marge and Homer standing next to a window in their house with a caption “Oh wow, windows!.. I don’t think I can afford this place.”
Here in the EU there are a few companies selling rebranded Tongfang or Clevo barebones without an OS. Some are Linux-oriented like Tuxedo, Slimbook or LaptopmetLinux, some are general-purpose or gaming oriented like Schenker/XMG.
Slimbook Elemental 14 start at around 600€, Tuxedo Aura 14 starts at around 840€ for what looks to be the same SKU but a bit more storage.
Where are you located and what’s your budget ? It might help point you in the right direction.
Microsoft is not dominating the PC market like you think they are. Nowadays, if you’re in school, and the school tells you to use a computer, it’s probably going to be a Chromebook. Google has made it much cheaper for enterprises and schools to afford chromebooks, by giving them deals and building protocols that would specifically be useful in a school or work environment, and in some cases, forcing students/parents to buy Chromebooks specifically. And more rarely, requiring people to use them at work.
Also, I feel like this whole post completely disregards the existence of Chromebooks in general. They’re Linux computers. And they’re what most of the next generation are learning to use at school, and therefore, what most of them will probably buy when they buy a laptop. You know, assuming they didn’t think it was awful.
Nobody is forcing you to buy a computer with Windows pre-installed on it. People just enjoy hating on Windows. You basically can’t use Linux without having enough know-how to install it yourself anyway. Just delete Windows. Or is the Linux gang really just looking for every little thing to complain about? I think that’s what it is. You guys should spend more time pointing out why Linux should be the status quo, instead of complaining about the current status quo. It gets you nowhere with people who use Windows, and the Apple people laugh at you. So you’re essentially just circle jerking your favorite penguin. Why? Windows didn’t steal your girl. It’s an alternative. Buy a laptop that doesn’t have an operating system on it, if you’re so upset about it. They exist. It took me less than a minute to Google it. Want Linux on it? Buy a Chromebook. The world already conforms to you, and yet you still complain.
Way to completely miss the point there…
There’s literally a Chromebook section at Best Buy. The point couldn’t be more wrong. Quit complaining about non-existent problems just so you can make anti-Windows propaganda. It’s shameful.
Last three laptops I’ve bought, the Windows install never saw the light of day.
Microsoft would make more from continued Windows usage (between selling data and products like Office) then that license key sold in volume to the OEM.
Get a used ThinkPad, OP
Have two already.
Damn that’s more than me (I have 1)
Buy a Framework, System76 or something else with first class Linux support.
Love their concept but I just can’t afford it. My problem isn’t finding a machine that works well with Linux. It’s finding a machine that I can afford. And the stupid windows fee for something I will immediately uninstall is a big deal to me.
Have you considered second hand? I’m not talking second hand specifically for framework or other mentioned brands, but just in general.
I feel it is not yet normalized to consider second hand for electronics, yet you can find quite some good deals. Not everything needs to be bought new, especially if you are price sensitive. One generation or 2 older hardware bought second hand can be better and cheaper than new.
Yes, I’m a huge fan of second hand as well, but this has to be a brand new laptop for external reasons.
I’m in fact writing this from a 12 year old Thinkpad that I restored.
What are your actual requirements? Are you looking for something specific?
Thanks for trying to help me out but in this situation the laptop must be new, sold through a retailer in my country that is on a specific list. I don’t think you can help me out with this one, there just aren’t any options that meet this demand that have no system or linux. They always come with windows preinstalled.
There are newer Thinkpads that can also be found second-hand. With NVME storage and newer CPUs. The Linux support for them has actually gotten better. Lenovo is still the best hardware for Linux out of all the old manufacturing brands.
yooo old thinkpad <3
which model? xx20?
T420s.
I love it but it is pretty slow (i5 model)
very nice
I watched a YouTube video where this guy buys thinkpads that are “broken” and often they just need ram installed or something simple, and for a minor risk of buying a dud, he gets laptops for super cheap.
It’s what I used to do myself. I have had multiple thinkpads that I bought BIOS-locked and fixed that problem using a screwdriver and some good timing :D Amazing machines.
But I am looking for something brand new, because of requirements that were not set by me.
Framework has their 11th gen Intel laptops right now as a barebones for $499 USD from B-stock, new components, if that interests you.
Otherwise, Chromebooks that you can flash replacement coreboot are another good option.
Is the 500usd for the full computer? I got confused before that some of the cheapest configurations didn’t have everything needed to make the computer, like RAM and storage.
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It includes everything except RAM, Storage, and the USB C modular ports. With all of that you’re probably looking more like $575-600. They do, however, have 8GB of RAM for $15, cheap storage options, etc, so it’s a pretty good deal overall for such a repairable and upgradable laptop.
Unfortunately Framework doesn’t retail in my country and that’s the requirement. But that does sound very enticing, I’ll keep an eye on their B-stock. Thanks!
As for the flashed chromebooks that sounds like a pretty cool weekend project but I need something with a little more power.
Important to remember that not all Chromebooks are created equal. There are some that have i5/i7s or Ryzen CPUs in them that will rival most laptops. I see $200-500 USD Chromebooks all the time with decent specs refurbed or clearance.
Pinebook Pro?
I have one, and it’s neat, but it just isn’t stable enough to be a daily driver. Used ThinkPads are the golden standard for cheap and friendly here.
Early 2010’s MacBooks also make excellent Linux machines.
Oems like dell pay almost nothing for their windows license. Compared to the cost of the laptop it’s negligible.
When I bought a Dell XPS choosing to have Linux installed discounted 100$ from the purchase.
That’s significant enough to buy a case or accessory.
Buy used
I would not buy a laptop used
Why? There are plenty of cheap well built laptops that will easily outlive some new garbage PC.
Not really, most laptops lack upgradablity and you have no idea what state the battery is going to be in.
And a new computer wouldn’t have the same upgradeability issues? Batteries don’t normally degrade that quickly, at least not the ones in good computers.
There’s plenty of 2-3 year old thinkpads or other business machines for nothing out there. Most are upgradeable, and even if they aren’t you can just look for one that meets your requirements.
You can get a laptop with a i3 or N series and it will have better battery life and thermals. If your taking about a [mini]pc that makes sense but buying a old device when there are new devices that aren’t to expensive doesn’t make sense.
I think most Lenovo and dell computers provide you with the option to go without an OS or something like Ubuntu.
Only select top-end models in my country unfortunately.
Ubuntu is basically the only Linux distro I’ve seen offered on most computers from most if the big manufacturers.
Want something else? Install it yourself, or get a Slimbook or something similar to that.
Dell sells Linux laptops too don’t they?
Yes, but all the budget laptops from them I can find don’t have that option. Only a few select higher-end gaming models come with Linux.
Every laptop manufacturers sell linux laptops they just dont know it.
Framework is a bit different, it has direct support for their hardware drivers on many linux distros and endorses linux to be installed on their laptops.
OP doesn’t want to pay the extra $120 for an OS he’s never gonna use. Yes everyone sells a Linux laptop but there’s a few companies that won’t charge you for Windows on top of that.
Dell isn’t paying anywhere near $120 for windows. Only end users buying a one off license pay that much.
Thank you, it seems the point of this meme is lost on some Lemmings :D
Right . . . but Dell ship select models with Ubuntu preinstalled, these certified devices come with their OEM package which has support for their drivers, etc. and obvs by selling them with Linux, they are endorsing it on their select models of laptops as well.
Never knew that.
They’ve been doing it for a very long time now. I’m currently using a 2015 model, Dell Tablet. It has Linux support. Cost me about $250 (with a copy of W10 Pro), a few years back. I also got it with the hard shell keyboard dock, effectively making it a net book.
It’s been a great device, but probably isn’t what OP is looking for.
Especially now that they’re selling refurbished models at a heavy discount, you can get into the Framework ecosystem pretty easily and upgrade the mainboard later.
The bigger issue for me is every device advertised to be linux based and privacy oriented is >400$ usually around 700-800$
I understand that tech savy IT people are usually financially cushy enough that they can eat a almost thousand dollar bill on their laptop and not think twice about it but man I just can’t ever see myself willing to shell out that much cash for a fancy laptop with physical kill switches or modularbility. Bring that price tag down a couple hundred dollars system 76 and Purism, then well talk. Until then the dude on ebay selling librebooted ghostpads are more likely to get my money.
Friend: “What’s your system specs?”
Me: “12-core Ryzen CPU, 64GB RAM, 3080ti GPU”
F: “Nice. What games do you play?”
M: “Games…?”
These days it’s not uncommon to have a powerful GPU just for AI acceleration.
Or for photo editing. Or video editing. Or CAD work. Or a lot more stuff.
Are modern iGPUs not powerful enough for these tasks? The UHD 770 is pretty powerful, especially for video encoding/decoding (it can transcode 8+ 4K streams simultaneously)
iGPUs are pretty useless for the most part.
- Shared memory. Regular DDR is high latency high throuput. GDDR is low latency low throuput. Not only you’re sharing memory with other apps, you’re also penalising yourself in terms of performance.
- iGPUs are very slow at computation. Yes, they have codecs built-in, but if you want to run custom math they are not much better than running it on CPU.
- CUDA is not available. OpenCL is, but some apps are locked to CUDA.
- Old GTX 1080 is 5.5 times faster than brand new Iris Xe at computation. RTX 4080 is like 3x times faster than GTX 1080. That’s an order of magnitude difference between modern GPU and modern iGPU.
For photo editing, I suspect it should be more than enough. For video editing, a beefy graphics card can make the render/encode significantly faster, though as I don’t dabble with that, I can’t tell how much of a speed improvement it’d be from an integrated intel vs. anything equivalent or stronger than a GTX1650
Check out TUXEDO
A lot of the time you aren’t actually paying for the license afaik. If you look at a pre built and spec it out on PC part picker, the pre built can often come at a lower price bc the PC is subsidized with payment from the bloatware that is pre installed (think McAfee). Microsoft also sells the licenses in bulk to the store for huge discounts. Windows business model is a lot more about selling you 365 and your data than the operating system.
I don’t get it. I wouldn’t need to have Linux preinstalled. I could just get… Literally any laptop and then only ever boot up Windows to download my preferred distro, if I don’t already have a USB ready.
The point is that you have to pay for that windows that you’re going to erase anyways. It’s not free.
In my experience, unless it’s the professional version of windows, laptops with windows tend to be a little cheaper than blank laptops. Pretty sure Microsoft actually pays manufactures to use Windows.
Lenovo has official support for Ubuntu on all laptops which translates very well to other distros. IMO the Thinkbook gen 6 having fully upgradable ram and decent specs is a really good deal for a Linux laptop *when on sale
Yet they don’t sell laptops without windows in my country.
Buy a second hand machine, try before buying, choose a ThinkPad. Mine is going strong 5 years now, daily work driver.
I already have a used ThinkPad and have been using it for many years. I’m trying to get a second laptop, but for reasons I can’t choose a used one. Only new machines and in a low price bracket. There’s just nothing that comes without preinstalled Windows and associated tax.
Maybe find a Chromebook you can install Linux on?
I see, well you’ll probably have to either eat the cost or contact a small seller directly and see if he can do a device without Windows for lower price. Worst case scenario you’ll get denied.
“Your laptop’s sticker price already includes windows license fee. You’re welcome!”
– Microsoft
I had 2 (actully much more) options when buying my laptop. Good laptop with windows or a liitle better laptop without windows for 200€ less.
It’s sad when you figure out why most people are broke.
I would say “install unregistered windows, run MAS,” but unfortunately we can’t expect that to be common knowledge. And, if it were common knowledge, MAS probably wouldn’t exist anymore either.
What’s MAS?
Microsoft Activation Script, iirc. It’ll “authenticate” a copy of windows or office suite by spoofing the information needed by windows/office to identify itself as legitimate. You should be able to find it by googling “MAS windows” or “massgrave.dev”
Yes, you can, just build your own PC
Not as viable a strategy for laptops…
which implies that if you want to buy a laptop, you are going to accept whatever OEM do
Right… That’s OP’s criticism. Not enough OEMs offer blank systems.
