That’s

…

SAD BUT TRUUUUE, YEEA

Lol, that bar is not too high though.

insert Roblox oof sound

Port wearout, isn’t that a good reason for a repairable phone?

I don’t know much about the fair phone I do remember a day when cellphone batteries were user replaceable and back then you could get third party larger batteries with larger cases. Is that available for the fair phone?

I’ve got a list of must haves for phones and that is on it. Obviously nothing has met my list in years.

Really wish c wasn’t the standard. Breaks so easily

I think the idea is that Linus is a hypocrite.

I seem to recall something to the effect of “theft of a prototype:” like a custom water block or something like that he was supposed to review, and then gave a rushed, improper review, and then misplaced or in some way failed to return the prototype. IIRC.

when they were a scrappy bunch of nerds working out of a house

Much of the recent criticism relates specifically to toxic/bro culture and a work culture that encouraged cutting corners, mistakes, and burnout. I’m not sure what was going on in the house behind the scenes was a model of a professional workplace.

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I’m genuinely curious how saying that Linux GUI desktop has issues equates to gargling Microsoft’s balls?

His let’s try Linux series was amazing. Showing how dogshit it really is when you get out of the circlejerk.

The Linux series was one of the best, because it showed what would happen if someone who didn’t know what they were doing tried to move to Linux. Linux shills have been preaching “it’s the year of the Linux desktop” forever now, but since it’s so different from windows and macOS there’s a massive learning curve that only shows up once you’ve switched.

I would bet 8/10 people who have used windows/macOS for 30+ years would have many of the same problems as Linus did. I know I’ve made many of the same mistakes that were made by Linus/Luke in that series, including accidentally nuking my DE.

Linux sucks as a desktop if you aren’t already familiar with Linux from the terminal. There’s a few edge cases, but for the most part it’s not a good experience if you do anything more than web browsing.

I’m no Linus shill, though I do enjoy their content for the most part. He’s not a tech god like people make him out to be, he’s just a slightly above average tech nerd who’s a good presenter. And that’s the audience that the Linux shills are trying to push the OS onto.

I liked him when he was more authentic. Back when they were filming out of a house, rather than some compound, just doing silly shit like that whole office water cooling.

Now it’s all about him blowing tons of cash on his house, or his studio, or just shilling/shitting on everything.

I ignored him for years because of his click bait video images, but then started liking him due to the scrap yard wars. But then quickly grew tired of his regular content after a couple of months with what a shill fest the entire thing was from their begging for likes to begging to buy their merch to begging for patreon.

Yes but it’s not massive amounts.

Phones use practically no energy compared to PC’s laptops, washing machines etc.

And if people want that level of charging efficiency… The USB C port still exists…

I specifically avoid using wireless charging on my Pixel to extend its battery lifespan

You shouldn’t bother. I exclusively charge my Pixels wirelessly and keep them around forever as development devices and the batteries on all of them are fine.

Yes but that’s mostly relevant when using fast wireless charging. Slow wireless charging doesn’t get that hot. And it reduces friction on the USB port.

Furthermore this phone has a swappable battery so it would be fixable if the battery degraded

I can think of reasons to not to include wireless charging such as repairability. The efficiency is bs as people can still charge wired if they want to.

i’ve got a samsung chargepad thing, it has a builtin little cute fan (internal, not blowing on the phone) - the phone is elevated, laying on a lip so it does not have direct contact. it’s always cool to the touch even tho it charges relatively quick (80% charge limit tho)

That’s not efficiency, that’s speed. I charging efficiency is your charger drawing 35W and your phone only getting charged with 30W.

A lot of men who think they are techies because they game or something but really aren’t.

LTT have high praise to the ability to replace the individual components in the Framework, like the trackpad and the screen.

I guess laptops are seen in a different light compared to phones, but I don’t think they should be. Not anymore.

The Framework is about more than just the USB bays. They’re also designed to have non-hotswappable repairs for things like the touchpad, the screen, the keyboard, and all kinds of other components that are impossible to replace on other laptops. And there are actually some upgrades you can do to the Fairphone 4, though I don’t think I would bother with the ones they offer if I had one.

The original framework didn’t have motherboard upgrades, those came later. It was lauded for its openness and repairability, but the repairability doesn’t seem to be any better than the Fairphone’s. You can swap the battery, add storage, replace the (web)cam, swap the screen, all without complicated tools, but i think the only real difference is that the Fairphone doesn’t have a removable SSD and RAM package. You can’t upgrade a framework’s CPU without replacing the entire motherboard with it, for instance. Almost everything the Framework was lauded for on launch has been the default on Fairphones for years now, so I think the comparison is quite apt.

I don’t think I’ve used an early 2000s phone where you could replace the camera without a soldering iron, or get access to the screen without breaking the chassis plastic. The replaceable stuff always seemed like a marketing gimmick to me.

The Fairphone has one practical repairability advantage: they promise to keep parts in stock. I could happily get another year or two out of my current phone, but there are no more replacement screens or batteries to be found anywhere. The same was true back in the 2000s; phones with replaceable batteries, skins and back panels would show up, but two years later no shop would stock any of that stuff.

Unfortunately, the modular phones died, because the few phones that did offer modules completely failed. It’s just not viable to create a fully modular device in this form factor.

Perhaps, but Linus compares the phone directly to the Pixel 8. Or you could get an iPhone. In both cases, you’ll end up paying less than fir a Fairphone.

Most common middle- and upper-tier phones, as well as any Pixel and Fairphone (thanks to being more open) will get a custom ROM with updates 8+ years after the release, and you can buy a used 5-year-old phone quite cheaply.

Typing this on my 10-year-old Sony Xperia Z with Android 13. It cost me $0 (found in e-waste) including a data plan (owner forgot SIM inside). The camera has low sensitivity and dust in it and the battery is not too great, but everything else is decent. There is even 4G and NFC. I decided to not use the SIM as it could be criminal, and I have my prepaid one in s dumb phone, but I use it for entertainment - the phone fits in my hand and the design is quite timeless.

What phone was this? I can add and remove SIM cards on the fly, and did so once or twice all the way since Android 9. Could be a firmware thing that’s preventing it from working for you, but even then SD cards should still just work; those have been swappable (excluding adoptable storage, of course) since at least Android 4.

To be fair you need a tool for that, unlike their option.

That’s true (at least for the phones I’ve seen), but there are still other ways. Six or seven years ago, phones had little slide-in slots attached to the motherboard that were accessible by removing the back cover of the phone, for example. There are tool-less ways this could’ve been implemented.

Fairphone on the other hand has to maintain a unique device which is way more work, they get early access because of that though.

This is true, which is why they bought the worse IoT SoC instead of a nornal mobile chip, but they do get access to patches and source code way ahead of volunteer projects like LineageOS and Graphene and still tend to lag behind in terms of releases. I can forgive them for major Android releases, but not for the security updates

And their noncompliance with all the GrapheneOS security demands is the reason I dont use it.

I think most of their demands are quite reasonable, really. “Provide an update for the bug that allows any app to become root/any nearby Bluetooth device to execute code as root within a month” doesn’t seem that unreasonable to me, and neither does “actually patch all the vulnerabilities known up till know”. The TEE stuff is also something a lot secure software relies on.

I guess it’s the Fairphone, not the Securephone. And then again, nobody cares about security anyway. It just adds context to the promised eight years of software support: you get support, but do you get all of the support? Do you gain anything above flashing LineageOS to a different device?

Fairphone is Google certified and thus needs to ship unmodified Android including all the Google crap

Samsung is Google certified and they don’t. They opted to use Google’s skin, with Google’s launcher and a bunch of Google extras rather than develop their own. They don’t need to do that, they just aren’t allowed to modify Google’s launcher if they choose to use Google’s launcher.

I like the idea behind /e/ but their software updates have been lacking.

Regular phones dont get 8 years of updates so they will be outdated and should not be used.

Shouldn’t they? Most people I know don’t give a shit about security updates. Apps still work, browsers still get updated. Someone like me would flash a custom ROM, others would just keep using their Android 9 phone until it no longer works some day. And to be honest, as long as you update your browser, there’s not really that big a risk of getting hacked on Android. That, and the ability to install 'your WhatsApp is outdated click here to install WhatsApp 2024.apk".

There are people thst shouldn’t use old phones (human rights activists, journalists, people in important positions within big companies) but they probably shouldn’t be using Android in the first place, especially not from a company that doesn’t have the capacity to focus on security like Google and Apple can.

Because as a consumer, I’m not considering buying a Fairphone 4. This stuff only matters if you’ve already determined you’re going to be buying any Fairphone, you just don’t know which one. Which may be the case for some people, but most people don’t exclusively buy Fairphones.

Most of the power goes into the screen. The Pixel 8 has a ridiculously power efficient screen. I have one. It also costs $300 to replace. The Fairphone’s is $100.

That’s fair. If you intend to replace the screen multiple times, the Fairphone is a better choice. I don’t see why the replaceable screen would need to consume more power, though

Slots and sliders inevitably weaken the phone frame making it easier to break. They also cost more to machine.

$200 Huawei phones from 6 years ago had sliding slots behind the removable back panel. Other budget phones still have sliders. This could’ve been fixed in different ways. Perhaps Fairphone couldn’t figure out the slider without causing other problems, but being unable to live swap the SD card is still disappointing.

Replacing a battery to rescue a Pixel will run you $100-200.

Add that to the $250 for a second hand Pixel 6 and you can buy at least two for the price of a Fairphone. Not only did you save money, you also saved the environment by reducing the e-waste society produces!

Many design choices make a lot of sense when looked through the repairability, durability and cost of repairability lenses.

I agree, but that doesn’t mean the phone isn’t too expensive for its position in the lineup for the general public. I might value the ability to run custom ROMs and the ability to upgrade components down the line that I pay extra upfront, but the rest of my family sure won’t.

How exactly is that environmentally friendly than starting to use a phone made by a company with higher ethics? Surely the later stacks higher in being environmentally and morally friendly?

The difference is you can produce only the best phones. There aren’t throw away/cheap phones. The only difference is then how old the phone is.

It’s the difference between buying an old Lexus and a new base model Kia. They both might cost the same, and yeah the Lexus driver almost definitely got a new car, but the Lexus is probably going to outlive the Kia.

People are going to buy new phones regardless. You not buying used phones is not going to change that.

Buying used or refurbished keeps the devices they‘d throw away (or keep in a drawer for 10 years, then throw away), if they couldn’t sell them, from landfills.

Also, I know plenty of people who are well off that buy second hand phones and even more people who couldn’t even afford a Fairphone (which starts at almost 500€ for a 4 and 650€ for a 5) that buy a brand new 200-300€ phone every two years.

And those low end phones are the least environmentally friendly because they‘re definitely unethically made they most likely break more quickly than higher end options, they usually don’t get updates for very long, if at all, and there’s no noteworthy second hand market for them because people just throw them away (or into a drawer) if the phone stops working or when they feel like getting a new one, because who buys a 2 year old low end phone second hand?

Buying used instead is a great option. You get a higher end device for cheaper without anything new having to be made for you. It‘ll still last you years and you’ll have a better experience than with a cheap new phone.

Yes, it would be better if all phones were ethically produced, easy to repair and would last a long time. Especially if there are ethically phones in the sub 300€ market. Won’t be easy to achieve, if at all, and wouldn’t stop blind consumerism but it would make for an even better second hand market. Because, you know what’s better than a fairphone? A second hand fairphone.

That’s the stupidest argument against 2nd hand market I’ve ever heard. It read as you’re too proud and too much nose on your imagined status to buy “used shit”

Some people consider more things than just being a fastest bang for the buck.

The difference is striking, though. It’s half as fast at the starting line. I can only imagine what’ll happen to it once it runs Android 23 in eight years.

Unethical mining, forced labour, e-waste, data mining, and lots of other things. If you care at all, that is.

That’s fair, but then buying a second hand iPhone should solve all of those issues for you. No additional materials beind mined, no days collection, and the only forced labour you’ll be adding to the market is you forcing open the back to replace the battery.

It speaks more about principles than anything else.

It does, but principles don’t translate to tangible benefits for the products.

How exactly is that environmentally friendly than starting to use a phone made by a company with higher ethics?

It is, unless Fairphone manages to make an impact. To make an impact, they’ll need to convince “normal” people to buy the phone. And to do that, they need to put a phone out in the market place at a competitive price.

It’s good that there’s an ethical new phone out there, but the simple truth is that the general consumer will ignore this thing if it costs twice as much as a phone with similar specs.

Rich people buy new phones, less rich buy phones from the rich, and so on. No one needs to look past the marketing into ethics in how they were made and companies keep profiting in billions by exploitation of the poor. So so environmentally friendly. ^ You need to be pretty rich to be able to afford a Fairphone. I guess the cycle continues?

I’m not sure how companies benefit from a second hand market, though. Second hand flagship phones compete directly with their budget and mid-range models. If they legally could, they’d block you from being able to sell your phone.

And yes, reusing an old phone is more environmentally friendly than buying a new one even if the new one is sustainably built. If you care about the environment, you should be happy with the second hand market, and encourage others to buy second hand phones. “Reduce, reuse, recycle” is said in that particular order for a very good reason.

Perhaps the truth is that the review was unfair, because there is no competition to put the Fairphone against. It’s a product built for a specific niche that has no other devices to choose from. But then again, if it only competes in that particular niche, why send one for review to a general tech reviewer at all? There are other reviewers that focus on sustainable technology that would be a lot more positive about this thing, nicely targeting the people who would consider buying such a device.

Their actual experiences are what matters.

In that case, wouldn’t the experience be “this is as slow as my old phone”, “the bezels are rather large”, “this thing is super heavy”, “why do I need to charge my phone already”, and “why is it so thick”?

Price isn’t everything, but the 800 dollar segment comes with certain expectations. The Fairphone is a decidedly mid-range phone with a high-end price tag. There are real benefits to that price (the long support and the ethical superiority, for example), but I don’t think consumers really care about that stuff enough not to be disappointed.

Maybe it’s because I don’t have the kind of disposable income to overlook these issues, but I don’t think I would be very satisfied with the Fairphone myself. My current phone is closing in on 4½ years of usage, but it cost just over half the price of a new Fairphone at launch. I don’t think the SoC will be able to keep up with another four years of updates, but the new Fairphone SoC doesn’t seem much faster. I don’t think I’d spend 810 dollars on a phone with 8 years of support when I could just as easily spend 450 dollars twice for a phone that I’ll use 4½ years, and get better performance out of it as well.